Season null and voided

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Darlofan97
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:23 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:47 pm
What happens when the government stop the furlough scheme? Who pays the players wages then?
I think we may have to pay the players/management in May in full, and find the funds to top-up the players/management wages by 20% in Feb, March & April.

Although, I am unsure what occurs to players contracts when the season is declared null & void? Presumably they continue to the date that the season would have ended (i.e. 28th May)? We didn't have this issue last season as obviously the season was suspended, then decided on PPG.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am

Does the 20% have to be found?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am
Does the 20% have to be found?
We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Old Git » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:07 pm

Wonder how this will affect our FA Trophy match. Is there a difference between our position and that of the likes of Hornchurch? Our season has been made null and void but are the leagues below our level still just suspended ? Does that make any difference?
Sorry more questions but does anyone know what the answers are?

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by lo36789 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 pm

Old Git wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:07 pm
Wonder how this will affect our FA Trophy match. Is there a difference between our position and that of the likes of Hornchurch? Our season has been made null and void but are the leagues below our level still just suspended ? Does that make any difference?
Sorry more questions but does anyone know what the answers are?
No difference. Our league season is null and voided we have no more league games to play but we have a scheduled FA Trophy game.

Hornchurch are not legally allowed to play league games but can participate in elite competition (FA Trophy)

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by jjljks » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:20 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am
Does the 20% have to be found?
We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.
Personally, I think we now have one the strongest squads that we have had for a while and would like to see the 20% paid and contracts honoured so that players would want to stay and push for the FA Trophy as well as promotion next season (whenever that might be!). As a season ticket holder, I would also be prepared to forego any refund for the games missed, as this would be very complicated to work out anyway, provided the money is used to pay the contracts.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Vodka_Vic » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 pm

Furlough now extended. Details on March 3rd.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:36 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 pm
Furlough now extended. Details on March 3rd.
Good. If it’s at the current 80% in May then it’ll save us about £30k-£35k.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by eek » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:15 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:16 am
The Gloucester chairman has started legal proceedings :roll: He wants promotion from our league to still be on.

He has too much money and absolutely no chance of success.

The National League, by their mismanagement have now opened up a can of worms as they'll be lawsuits coming at them from all sides now.
I could see a challenge for NLS working - there is a valid question of why should the votes of NLN impact the NLS.

But I really can't see how you can question a decision that 60% of NLN agreed to when only 51% was required.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by eek » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:17 pm

karlo-cardiff wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:12 am
The top half of the NL could be interesting now regarding goal difference.. If those 7 teams that didn't want to carry on reduce budgets and play youth /reserve teams knowing they can't be relegated expect some fairly big scores in the coming weeks. The final season positions certainly won't be a true reflection regardless of who "wins" the league.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk
I think you are right - it would be better to let those teams that don't want to play to stop playing, and replace all matches played between other teams as draws or the 3-0 default wins.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:50 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am
Does the 20% have to be found?
We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.
Are you sure of this?

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:16 pm

Up to this point the League have been cruising along keeping a low profile and sitting on their hands, whilst watching multiple clubs grapple with the financial issues brought on by their (the league's) incompetence and mistakes.

However, now they will have to deal with legal action coming at them from differing people for differing reasons, and other issues too - like keeping step 1 from descending into a joke. So It's their turn now to feel the heat - the tide has turned.

Also, it seems to me that a lot of clubs at step one are now opening themselves up to incoming debt. It won't bother the like of Singh because he will just split but it could ruin some other clubs. :thumbdown:

At least if we ever get up to step one we won't have this C19 debt hanging off our shoulders for years to come.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:14 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:The Gloucester chairman has started legal proceedings :roll: He wants promotion from our league to still be on.

He has too much money and absolutely no chance of success.

The National League, by their mismanagement have now opened up a can of worms as they'll be lawsuits coming at them from all sides now.
He’ll have a bit less money afterwards. Only people who’ll benefit from this are his lawyers. It’s an ego-trip and that’s it.

The precedent has already been set from the NPL last season.

To be honest, I doubt there’ll be many lawsuits. Only loudmouth chairmen aggrieved their club isn’t being promoted. But there’s no case there as there’s been a democratic vote. By definition, if a season is null and voided, it hasn’t happened and therefore promotion can’t happen.

Put it this way, clubs like Blyth won’t be going for lawsuits after avoiding relegation.

The league’s bigger problems are likely to come from breaking its own rules by forcing National League clubs to take on more debt.
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm

bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am
Does the 20% have to be found?
We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.
Are you sure of this?
Yes.

Ryan Croasdale terminated his contract with Fylde over the summer under similar circumstances. The FA ruled in his favour and he signed for Stockport County on a free transfer.

We have to find the additional 20% to avoid this happening with one of our players.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:32 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm
bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am
Does the 20% have to be found?
We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.
Are you sure of this?
Yes.

Ryan Croasdale terminated his contract with Fylde over the summer under similar circumstances. The FA ruled in his favour and he signed for Stockport County on a free transfer.

We have to find the additional 20% to avoid this happening with one of our players.
I disagree with you if a player is not prepared to accept 80% in the current circumstances for what is left of the "season" I don't want him with us as a player next season.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:02 pm

bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:32 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm
bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am
Does the 20% have to be found?
We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.
Are you sure of this?
Yes.

Ryan Croasdale terminated his contract with Fylde over the summer under similar circumstances. The FA ruled in his favour and he signed for Stockport County on a free transfer.

We have to find the additional 20% to avoid this happening with one of our players.
I disagree with you if a player is not prepared to accept 80% in the current circumstances for what is left of the "season" I don't want him with us as a player next season.
Sorry, my post isn’t communicated very well. I - personally - am not saying we should do this. I am just saying this is what we would have to do (as club) to avoid this situation happening.

DJ/CS will do whatever they believe is best for the club.

The only thing I will say is that we have a number of valuable assets (Storey, Wheatley, Campbell, Sousa & Charman), and you could probably throw in Hatfield too on the basis he is one of the best midfielders at this level. It would be a shame for these players to leave for no return.

For what it’s worth, I think the club will top-up the 20% over the next 4 months anyway. Hopefully this gesture will be reciprocated when a few are offered contracts for next season.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:19 pm

Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:24 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:19 pm
Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Rightly or wrongly, football & football players are a completely different market.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by lo36789 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:51 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:19 pm
Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Ok for some, probably not for most.

Previous role I was in researched the financial health of the nation and 50% of households spend what they earn each month (so don't save) and 25% spend more than they earn each month (so are gathering debt).

If you are spending what you earn, losing a proportion of your income could impact your standard of living.

It is all well and good expecting players to take cuts, but they are just people. They have mortgages and financial obligations like anyone.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:12 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:51 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:19 pm
Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Ok for some, probably not for most.

Previous role I was in researched the financial health of the nation and 50% of households spend what they earn each month (so don't save) and 25% spend more than they earn each month (so are gathering debt).

If you are spending what you earn, losing a proportion of your income could impact your standard of living.

It is all well and good expecting players to take cuts, but they are just people. They have mortgages and financial obligations like anyone.
Or you could look at it this way. I know a number of people who have been furloughed almost 12 months apart from that break in the summer. All confirm they are spending less at present than when at work, i.e. no travel to work costs, cheaper lunches, less socialising with work colleagues. In summary, in Lockdown you spend less apart from your fixed overheads, it is as simple as that.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:20 pm

It isn’t as simple as that.

Unlike you or I, players have other employers in their ear, offering them £50+ more a week and a signing on fee.

This was typified in the Croasdale case last summer.

Like I said, football is a completely different market compared to general employment.

If players want to leave us then that’s fine, but they should command a fee if under contract.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:28 pm

Also you have to remember the players employer DFC, has just voted to shut down playing and therefore removed the opportunity to play and be paid 100%. Obviously if we continue then we would struggle to have a DFC after so long without fans.

I am comfortable that we try to honour the players contracts and keep the opportunity of taking up any 1 year extensions if needed. We trusted the board last year and they done a great job, so I trust them again to do the right thing for the club and the players.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:38 pm

I doubt if they’ll be a problem as both management and players conduct themselves well - I’m just saying that personally I think the 80% is good, and by the time you haven’t paid work related expenses and paid less tax you shouldn’t grumble.

If it comes to it of course.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Alfie » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:42 pm

Those clubs that want to play on have sent a letter to the NL

Taken from the York site so there is a bit of preamble from McGill

https://www.yorkcityfootballclub.co.uk/ ... /letusplay

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by lo36789 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:01 pm

bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:12 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:51 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:19 pm
Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Ok for some, probably not for most.

Previous role I was in researched the financial health of the nation and 50% of households spend what they earn each month (so don't save) and 25% spend more than they earn each month (so are gathering debt).

If you are spending what you earn, losing a proportion of your income could impact your standard of living.

It is all well and good expecting players to take cuts, but they are just people. They have mortgages and financial obligations like anyone.
Or you could look at it this way. I know a number of people who have been furloughed almost 12 months apart from that break in the summer. All confirm they are spending less at present than when at work, i.e. no travel to work costs, cheaper lunches, less socialising with work colleagues. In summary, in Lockdown you spend less apart from your fixed overheads, it is as simple as that.
Or you could look at it that 50% of adults in the UK are now financially vulnerable. With total numbers increasing by 15% in the past 12 months.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consu ... ulnerable/

This one is behind a pay wall, but there are plenty of other sources revealing the same outcome.

The majority of the country getting a pay cut does not improve the financial health of the majority of people - it is as simple as that.

We may not have an alternative, and the situation is the situation.

I definitely would never assume that it's a positive experience for anybody though.
Last edited by lo36789 on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by JasonDeVos » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:31 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:28 pm
Also you have to remember the players employer DFC, has just voted to shut down playing and therefore removed the opportunity to play and be paid 100%. Obviously if we continue then we would struggle to have a DFC after so long without fans.

I am comfortable that we try to honour the players contracts and keep the opportunity of taking up any 1 year extensions if needed. We trusted the board last year and they done a great job, so I trust them again to do the right thing for the club and the players.

We paid full last time as the club decided it was the right thing to do. Fully behind the same decision again.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am

bga wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm
bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 am
Does the 20% have to be found?
We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.
Are you sure of this?
Yes.

Ryan Croasdale terminated his contract with Fylde over the summer under similar circumstances. The FA ruled in his favour and he signed for Stockport County on a free transfer.

We have to find the additional 20% to avoid this happening with one of our players.
I disagree with you if a player is not prepared to accept 80% in the current circumstances for what is left of the "season" I don't want him with us as a player next season.
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

First and foremost, it’s not the players’ fault the season has been shut down. If your employment was shut down through no fault of your own and your employer then said: “Accept a 20% pay cut or we don’t want you here” you’d be a bit miffed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

We also knew fine well when the season started it might be disrupted by the pandemic, yet still handed out contracts and brought in players like Dan Maguire. We’ve since had an intensive schedule with two games in a week the norm. We expected all players to attend matches where possible.

Indeed as a result of playing, some players have suffered injuries which may well have impacted on their ability to earn elsewhere.

Furthermore we are still expecting players to play in the FA Trophy. Hardly the greatest motivation to tell players we need them, but only at 80% of what we were previously offering.

The only exception would be if there’s a COVID clause in a player’s contract, allowing a reduction in wages if the season is shut down through the pandemic or something similar.

But your attitude appears to be if the club decide to unilaterally not pay the remainder, players should shut up and accept it without question, despite it not being their fault.

Morally more than anything I find that disgusting. And bad reputations spread quickly among players, making it harder for us to sign others down the line.

I’d sincerely hope, if we have contractually committed to paying the wages, we honour the outstanding amount to ensure players aren’t left out of pocket.
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:08 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am
bga wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm
bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am


We are not legally-bound to do so, but failure to provide the 20% top-up would allow the players to terminate their contracts and leave for free.
Are you sure of this?
Yes.

Ryan Croasdale terminated his contract with Fylde over the summer under similar circumstances. The FA ruled in his favour and he signed for Stockport County on a free transfer.

We have to find the additional 20% to avoid this happening with one of our players.
I disagree with you if a player is not prepared to accept 80% in the current circumstances for what is left of the "season" I don't want him with us as a player next season.
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

First and foremost, it’s not the players’ fault the season has been shut down. If your employment was shut down through no fault of your own and your employer then said: “Accept a 20% pay cut or we don’t want you here” you’d be a bit miffed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

We also knew fine well when the season started it might be disrupted by the pandemic, yet still handed out contracts and brought in players like Dan Maguire. We’ve since had an intensive schedule with two games in a week the norm. We expected all players to attend matches where possible.

Indeed as a result of playing, some players have suffered injuries which may well have impacted on their ability to earn elsewhere.

Furthermore we are still expecting players to play in the FA Trophy. Hardly the greatest motivation to tell players we need them, but only at 80% of what we were previously offering.

The only exception would be if there’s a COVID clause in a player’s contract, allowing a reduction in wages if the season is shut down through the pandemic or something similar.

But your attitude appears to be if the club decide to unilaterally not pay the remainder, players should shut up and accept it without question, despite it not being their fault.

Morally more than anything I find that disgusting. And bad reputations spread quickly among players, making it harder for us to sign others down the line.

I’d sincerely hope, if we have contractually committed to paying the wages, we honour the outstanding amount to ensure players aren’t left out of pocket.
Question do you think that if you are furloughed and there is a National lockdown you spend the same, or more, or less?

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by eek » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:51 am

bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:08 am

Question do you think that if you are furloughed and there is a National lockdown you spend the same, or more, or less?
Completely and utterly irrelevant.

If we wish to keep our team together we have to pay everyone in full - otherwise the founding principle of this football club has been lost.

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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:06 am

bga wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am
bga wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm
bga wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:50 pm

Are you sure of this?
Yes.

Ryan Croasdale terminated his contract with Fylde over the summer under similar circumstances. The FA ruled in his favour and he signed for Stockport County on a free transfer.

We have to find the additional 20% to avoid this happening with one of our players.
I disagree with you if a player is not prepared to accept 80% in the current circumstances for what is left of the "season" I don't want him with us as a player next season.
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

First and foremost, it’s not the players’ fault the season has been shut down. If your employment was shut down through no fault of your own and your employer then said: “Accept a 20% pay cut or we don’t want you here” you’d be a bit miffed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

We also knew fine well when the season started it might be disrupted by the pandemic, yet still handed out contracts and brought in players like Dan Maguire. We’ve since had an intensive schedule with two games in a week the norm. We expected all players to attend matches where possible.

Indeed as a result of playing, some players have suffered injuries which may well have impacted on their ability to earn elsewhere.

Furthermore we are still expecting players to play in the FA Trophy. Hardly the greatest motivation to tell players we need them, but only at 80% of what we were previously offering.

The only exception would be if there’s a COVID clause in a player’s contract, allowing a reduction in wages if the season is shut down through the pandemic or something similar.

But your attitude appears to be if the club decide to unilaterally not pay the remainder, players should shut up and accept it without question, despite it not being their fault.

Morally more than anything I find that disgusting. And bad reputations spread quickly among players, making it harder for us to sign others down the line.

I’d sincerely hope, if we have contractually committed to paying the wages, we honour the outstanding amount to ensure players aren’t left out of pocket.
Question do you think that if you are furloughed and there is a National lockdown you spend the same, or more, or less?
It doesn’t matter. An employee’s personal spending habits are nothing to do with the employer.

It’s not an argument that would stand up in a court of law. “Why did you refuse to pay his remaining salary?”

“Well he only ordered a new sofa last January so doesn’t need the money.”

We’ve committed to contracts knowing fine well there was a pandemic going on and the disruption that might happen.

If we’ve committed to a contract, we should honour that. It’s not optional. The only way would be to reach an agreement with the player. But you do so in good faith. Your tactic of sticking a loaded gun to their head and saying: “Accept a wage cut or else” won’t bear fruit.

That way you build a good reputation and the players are more likely to remain with us next season. And also, it’s the right, decent thing to do.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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