Season null and voided

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JasonDeVos
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by JasonDeVos » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:26 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:06 am
bga wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am
bga wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:46 pm


Yes.

Ryan Croasdale terminated his contract with Fylde over the summer under similar circumstances. The FA ruled in his favour and he signed for Stockport County on a free transfer.

We have to find the additional 20% to avoid this happening with one of our players.
I disagree with you if a player is not prepared to accept 80% in the current circumstances for what is left of the "season" I don't want him with us as a player next season.
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

First and foremost, it’s not the players’ fault the season has been shut down. If your employment was shut down through no fault of your own and your employer then said: “Accept a 20% pay cut or we don’t want you here” you’d be a bit miffed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

We also knew fine well when the season started it might be disrupted by the pandemic, yet still handed out contracts and brought in players like Dan Maguire. We’ve since had an intensive schedule with two games in a week the norm. We expected all players to attend matches where possible.

Indeed as a result of playing, some players have suffered injuries which may well have impacted on their ability to earn elsewhere.

Furthermore we are still expecting players to play in the FA Trophy. Hardly the greatest motivation to tell players we need them, but only at 80% of what we were previously offering.

The only exception would be if there’s a COVID clause in a player’s contract, allowing a reduction in wages if the season is shut down through the pandemic or something similar.

But your attitude appears to be if the club decide to unilaterally not pay the remainder, players should shut up and accept it without question, despite it not being their fault.

Morally more than anything I find that disgusting. And bad reputations spread quickly among players, making it harder for us to sign others down the line.

I’d sincerely hope, if we have contractually committed to paying the wages, we honour the outstanding amount to ensure players aren’t left out of pocket.
Question do you think that if you are furloughed and there is a National lockdown you spend the same, or more, or less?
It doesn’t matter. An employee’s personal spending habits are nothing to do with the employer.

It’s not an argument that would stand up in a court of law. “Why did you refuse to pay his remaining salary?”

“Well he only ordered a new sofa last January so doesn’t need the money.”

We’ve committed to contracts knowing fine well there was a pandemic going on and the disruption that might happen.

If we’ve committed to a contract, we should honour that. It’s not optional. The only way would be to reach an agreement with the player. But you do so in good faith. Your tactic of sticking a loaded gun to their head and saying: “Accept a wage cut or else” won’t bear fruit.

That way you build a good reputation and the players are more likely to remain with us next season. And also, it’s the right, decent thing to do.

Absolutely agree - awful attitude of a couple of fans.

Having all worked hard to rebuild the reputation of the club, you read this.

Short memory of a previous chairman who picked and chose who he paid what and when!

bga
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am

Of course we have "committed" to pay contracts but the whole world has changed hasn't it in the last 12 months so how can things be the same? Players have to accept that the club possibly by paying them the extra 20% may be putting itself in
a dire financial situation with zero income coming in. As I've stated before I believe 80% is a fair amount to receive for not working when spending is inevitably going to be lower during lockdown. Unprecedented times means unprecedented actions.

bga
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:39 am

JasonDeVos wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:26 am
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:06 am
bga wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am
bga wrote: I disagree with you if a player is not prepared to accept 80% in the current circumstances for what is left of the "season" I don't want him with us as a player next season.
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

First and foremost, it’s not the players’ fault the season has been shut down. If your employment was shut down through no fault of your own and your employer then said: “Accept a 20% pay cut or we don’t want you here” you’d be a bit miffed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

We also knew fine well when the season started it might be disrupted by the pandemic, yet still handed out contracts and brought in players like Dan Maguire. We’ve since had an intensive schedule with two games in a week the norm. We expected all players to attend matches where possible.

Indeed as a result of playing, some players have suffered injuries which may well have impacted on their ability to earn elsewhere.

Furthermore we are still expecting players to play in the FA Trophy. Hardly the greatest motivation to tell players we need them, but only at 80% of what we were previously offering.

The only exception would be if there’s a COVID clause in a player’s contract, allowing a reduction in wages if the season is shut down through the pandemic or something similar.

But your attitude appears to be if the club decide to unilaterally not pay the remainder, players should shut up and accept it without question, despite it not being their fault.

Morally more than anything I find that disgusting. And bad reputations spread quickly among players, making it harder for us to sign others down the line.

I’d sincerely hope, if we have contractually committed to paying the wages, we honour the outstanding amount to ensure players aren’t left out of pocket.
Question do you think that if you are furloughed and there is a National lockdown you spend the same, or more, or less?
It doesn’t matter. An employee’s personal spending habits are nothing to do with the employer.

It’s not an argument that would stand up in a court of law. “Why did you refuse to pay his remaining salary?”

“Well he only ordered a new sofa last January so doesn’t need the money.”

We’ve committed to contracts knowing fine well there was a pandemic going on and the disruption that might happen.

If we’ve committed to a contract, we should honour that. It’s not optional. The only way would be to reach an agreement with the player. But you do so in good faith. Your tactic of sticking a loaded gun to their head and saying: “Accept a wage cut or else” won’t bear fruit.

That way you build a good reputation and the players are more likely to remain with us next season. And also, it’s the right, decent thing to do.

Absolutely agree - awful attitude of a couple of fans.

Having all worked hard to rebuild the reputation of the club, you read this.

Short memory of a previous chairman who picked and chose who he paid what and when!
"Shory memory" have you forgotten we lost £50,000 in January and DJ said we would lose a similar amount this month?

Darlogramps
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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:02 pm

bga wrote:Of course we have "committed" to pay contracts but the whole world has changed hasn't it in the last 12 months so how can things be the same? Players have to accept that the club possibly by paying them the extra 20% may be putting itself in
a dire financial situation with zero income coming in. As I've stated before I believe 80% is a fair amount to receive for not working when spending is inevitably going to be lower during lockdown. Unprecedented times means unprecedented actions.
Has the world changed since August 2020? I think you could have used that argument in April last year. When the 2019/20 season contracts were signed in Summer 2019 we still had full stadiums and COVID was unheard of.

But the contracts for this season were signed in August/September 2020, five or six months after the pandemic began. Or put another way, the club offered contracts knowing fine well there could be disruption because of the pandemic. Indeed they entered into those contracts without guaranteed funding (but that’s another story which we’re all familiar with and don’t need to get into here).

So the “unprecedented times” argument holds no water.

If the club doesn’t have the money, I would imagine it’ll approach players and try and arrange an agreement with them. But that’s the point, it’ll be with players’ consent, not a unilateral club decision.

What you’ve said is players should accept it regardless. Well no, they don’t have to and the club will be laughed out of court if they tried doing so unilaterally.

Stop banging on about people spending less. A) It’s massively presumptuous and arrogant on your part to claim to know the financial situations of players and B) As has been said repeatedly, it’s irrelevant anyway. Your salary from your employer doesn’t increase or decrease depending on your personal outgoings.

You’re so wrong on this it’s unbelievable.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JasonDeVos
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by JasonDeVos » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:09 pm

bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am
Of course we have "committed" to pay contracts but the whole world has changed hasn't it in the last 12 months so how can things be the same? Players have to accept that the club possibly by paying them the extra 20% may be putting itself in
a dire financial situation with zero income coming in. As I've stated before I believe 80% is a fair amount to receive for not working when spending is inevitably going to be lower during lockdown. Unprecedented times means unprecedented actions.
Let’s get them all to send over their bank statements should we???

Old Git
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Old Git » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:19 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:02 pm


Stop banging on about people spending less. A) It’s massively presumptuous and arrogant on your part to claim to know the financial situations of players and B) As has been said repeatedly, it’s irrelevant anyway. Your salary from your employer doesn’t increase or decrease depending on your personal outgoings.

You’re so wrong on this it’s unbelievable.
[/quote

Presumptuous and arrogant. Oh the irony Gramps 😂

Darlogramps
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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:35 pm

Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:02 pm


Stop banging on about people spending less. A) It’s massively presumptuous and arrogant on your part to claim to know the financial situations of players and B) As has been said repeatedly, it’s irrelevant anyway. Your salary from your employer doesn’t increase or decrease depending on your personal outgoings.

You’re so wrong on this it’s unbelievable.
[/quote

Presumptuous and arrogant. Oh the irony Gramps Image
Ah look, Old Git is continuing his obsession. Keep trying, you’ll get over me one day. Weirdo.
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bga
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm

JasonDeVos wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:09 pm
bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am
Of course we have "committed" to pay contracts but the whole world has changed hasn't it in the last 12 months so how can things be the same? Players have to accept that the club possibly by paying them the extra 20% may be putting itself in
a dire financial situation with zero income coming in. As I've stated before I believe 80% is a fair amount to receive for not working when spending is inevitably going to be lower during lockdown. Unprecedented times means unprecedented actions.
Let’s get them all to send over their bank statements should we???
So for the record your view is pay the players the extra 20% even if it makes the club bankrupt? Or alternatively if the club launch "boost the furlough scheme" you'll be the first to chip in will you?

bga
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:43 pm

Same question above for you Gramps.

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:44 pm

bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm
JasonDeVos wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:09 pm
bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am
Of course we have "committed" to pay contracts but the whole world has changed hasn't it in the last 12 months so how can things be the same? Players have to accept that the club possibly by paying them the extra 20% may be putting itself in
a dire financial situation with zero income coming in. As I've stated before I believe 80% is a fair amount to receive for not working when spending is inevitably going to be lower during lockdown. Unprecedented times means unprecedented actions.
Let’s get them all to send over their bank statements should we???
So for the record your view is pay the players the extra 20% even if it makes the club bankrupt? Or alternatively if the club launch "boost the furlough scheme" you'll be the first to chip in will you?
Edit. I meant take the club further into debt.

Darlogramps
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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:01 pm

bga wrote:Same question above for you Gramps.
With respect, I’ve already answered that earlier. You’ve now re-framed the question to give yourself an easy “You want the club to go into debt!” reply.

I could just as easily say : “So you believe players’ families should starve by reducing their wages, even though they’ve done nothing wrong?”

The point is we’ve made a contractual commitment, knowing there was a pandemic on (something you’ve repeatedly deliberately failed to acknowledge). Unless we reach agreement with the players to reduce or defer, we are obliged to pay the rest of their salaries.

Your solution seems to be to withhold the remaining 20% and tell them to like it or lump it. That’s not a sane or legal way of running a club.

Your whole argument seems based on the assumption the players are all well-off financially and would cope without 20% of their salaries. What’s your actual evidence for that? Unless you have their bank statements in front of you, there’s no basis for that argument.
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JasonDeVos
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by JasonDeVos » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:54 pm

bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm
JasonDeVos wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:09 pm
bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am
Of course we have "committed" to pay contracts but the whole world has changed hasn't it in the last 12 months so how can things be the same? Players have to accept that the club possibly by paying them the extra 20% may be putting itself in
a dire financial situation with zero income coming in. As I've stated before I believe 80% is a fair amount to receive for not working when spending is inevitably going to be lower during lockdown. Unprecedented times means unprecedented actions.
Let’s get them all to send over their bank statements should we???
So for the record your view is pay the players the extra 20% even if it makes the club bankrupt? Or alternatively if the club launch "boost the furlough scheme" you'll be the first to chip in will you?
Bankrupt the club....... :roll:

How do you know what I contribute to the club??

Old Git
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Old Git » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:07 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:35 pm
Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:02 pm


Stop banging on about people spending less. A) It’s massively presumptuous and arrogant on your part to claim to know the financial situations of players and B) As has been said repeatedly, it’s irrelevant anyway. Your salary from your employer doesn’t increase or decrease depending on your personal outgoings.

You’re so wrong on this it’s unbelievable.
[/quote

Presumptuous and arrogant. Oh the irony Gramps Image
Ah look, Old Git is continuing his obsession. Keep trying, you’ll get over me one day. Weirdo.
Oh Gramps reduced to playground name calling and I thought you were so intellectual 😁

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:14 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

I haven't said anything "massively out of line". You just go back re-read....
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:17 pm

Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:35 pm
Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:02 pm


Stop banging on about people spending less. A) It’s massively presumptuous and arrogant on your part to claim to know the financial situations of players and B) As has been said repeatedly, it’s irrelevant anyway. Your salary from your employer doesn’t increase or decrease depending on your personal outgoings.

You’re so wrong on this it’s unbelievable.
[/quote

Presumptuous and arrogant. Oh the irony Gramps Image
Ah look, Old Git is continuing his obsession. Keep trying, you’ll get over me one day. Weirdo.
Oh Gramps reduced to playground name calling and I thought you were so intellectual Image
To be fair, any time I try being sensible, you just come back with personal insults. Pointless wasting effort on a creepy weirdo who just wants to drag everyone else down.

I find it truly touching you need to talk about me in every thread. But no one cares.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:18 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

I haven't said anything "massively out of line". You just go back re-read....
Yes you have. And I’ve outlined where you’re out of line too. You just go back and re-read....
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:25 pm

JasonDeVos wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:54 pm
bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:41 pm
JasonDeVos wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:09 pm
bga wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am
Of course we have "committed" to pay contracts but the whole world has changed hasn't it in the last 12 months so how can things be the same? Players have to accept that the club possibly by paying them the extra 20% may be putting itself in
a dire financial situation with zero income coming in. As I've stated before I believe 80% is a fair amount to receive for not working when spending is inevitably going to be lower during lockdown. Unprecedented times means unprecedented actions.
Let’s get them all to send over their bank statements should we???
So for the record your view is pay the players the extra 20% even if it makes the club bankrupt? Or alternatively if the club launch "boost the furlough scheme" you'll be the first to chip in will you?
Bankrupt the club....... :roll:

How do you know what I contribute to the club??
See my edit above I meant to take the club further into debt.
As a fan owned club I simply ask would you be prepared to step in and contribute if the Board requested this?

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:50 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:18 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:28 am
This is an appalling attitude to take. Yourself and the originalfatcat are massively out of line.

I haven't said anything "massively out of line". You just go back re-read....
Yes you have. And I’ve outlined where you’re out of line too. You just go back and re-read....
What are you on about? Are you mixing me up with someone else? Quote me or shut up!
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

Darlogramps
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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:00 pm

Nope, I’m talking about you. You know fine well what I’m referring to because I’ve already done it with BGA. But seeing as though you’re choosing to play dumb....
theoriginalfatcat wrote:Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Massively simplistic and ignores that we have legal contractual obligations to meet. And that players have done nothing wrong.

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I’m just saying that personally I think the 80% is good, and by the time you haven’t paid work related expenses and paid less tax you shouldn’t grumble.
For the same reasons I’ve already given to BGA, you are perfectly entitled to complain if someone refuses to pay 20% of your salary through no fault of your own.

Unless you know the personal financial situation of all our players, you’re in no position to comment or tell people they “shouldn’t grumble” about losing part of their salary.

I would also add, for all BGA and I disagree, he’s kept it respectful. So dial down on the “shut up” talk.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by bga » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:04 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:00 pm
Nope, I’m talking about you. You know fine well what I’m referring to because I’ve already done it with BGA. But seeing as though you’re choosing to play dumb....
theoriginalfatcat wrote:Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Massively simplistic and ignores that we have legal contractual obligations to meet. And that players have done nothing wrong.

“Players shouldn’t grumble” - for the same reasons I’ve already given to BGA, you are perfectly entitled to complain if someone refuses to pay 20% of your salary through no fault of your own.
There is a difference between not paying 20% of your wages and expecting you to work and not paying 20% of your wages and not expecting you to work.

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Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:06 pm

bga wrote: There is a difference between not paying 20% of your wages and expecting you to work and not paying 20% of your wages and not expecting you to work.
Not in the eyes of contract law. The players haven’t removed their labour. The league has removed it by ending the league, which we voted for.

That is no fault of the player and therefore they shouldn’t be penalised.

And we are expecting the players to work by playing in the FA Trophy.
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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:33 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:00 pm
Nope, I’m talking about you. You know fine well what I’m referring to because I’ve already done it with BGA. But seeing as though you’re choosing to play dumb....
theoriginalfatcat wrote:Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Massively simplistic and ignores that we have legal contractual obligations to meet. And that players have done nothing wrong.

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I’m just saying that personally I think the 80% is good, and by the time you haven’t paid work related expenses and paid less tax you shouldn’t grumble.
For the same reasons I’ve already given to BGA, you are perfectly entitled to complain if someone refuses to pay 20% of your salary through no fault of your own.

Unless you know the personal financial situation of all our players, you’re in no position to comment or tell people they “shouldn’t grumble” about losing part of their salary.

I would also add, for all BGA and I disagree, he’s kept it respectful. So dial down on the “shut up” talk.
Ah I see. I think you've misunderstood. When I wrote "personally" I meant personally, and I was writing about my personal views of the furlough scheme.

I worked for more than 30 years in a dirty dangerous job. If someone at any time had said to me "here have 80% of your wage for not working" to me, PERSONALLY, that would have been great and I would have bitten their hand off. By the time I'd not driven to work and paid less tax I would have been financially okay, and of course also I could have done better things with my time. Now go back and re-read my points and you will see I've never said we should not pay the extra 20%, I don't think that either. I was trying to ascertain if we had to, and what the consequences were if we didn't.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:09 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:00 pm
Nope, I’m talking about you. You know fine well what I’m referring to because I’ve already done it with BGA. But seeing as though you’re choosing to play dumb....
theoriginalfatcat wrote:Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Massively simplistic and ignores that we have legal contractual obligations to meet. And that players have done nothing wrong.

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I’m just saying that personally I think the 80% is good, and by the time you haven’t paid work related expenses and paid less tax you shouldn’t grumble.
For the same reasons I’ve already given to BGA, you are perfectly entitled to complain if someone refuses to pay 20% of your salary through no fault of your own.

Unless you know the personal financial situation of all our players, you’re in no position to comment or tell people they “shouldn’t grumble” about losing part of their salary.

I would also add, for all BGA and I disagree, he’s kept it respectful. So dial down on the “shut up” talk.
Ah I see. I think you've misunderstood. When I wrote "personally" I meant personally, and I was writing about my personal views of the furlough scheme.

I worked for more than 30 years in a dirty dangerous job. If someone at any time had said to me "here have 80% of your wage for not working" to me, PERSONALLY, that would have been great and I would have bitten their hand off. By the time I'd not driven to work and paid less tax I would have been financially okay, and of course also I could have done better things with my time. Now go back and re-read my points and you will see I've never said we should not pay the extra 20%, I don't think that either. I was trying to ascertain if we had to, and what the consequences were if we didn't.
Doesn’t read like that to me. Here’s the full post for context:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:I doubt if they’ll be a problem as both management and players conduct themselves well - I’m just saying that personally I think the 80% is good, and by the time you haven’t paid work related expenses and paid less tax you shouldn’t grumble.

If it comes to it of course.
You start off by talking about the club’s management and players.

Then afterwards, “If it comes to it” which again is referring back to the club’s situation. To me it reads like you’re saying the players getting 80% is a good deal.

Just for clarity then, do you think the players getting only 80% of their wages is a good deal? And do you think we should pay the additional 20%?
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Old Git
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by Old Git » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:24 pm

Slight change of tack and sorry Gramps nothing to do with my obsession with you. I see that Dover v Kings Lynn is off today. Assume that the NL will be itching to take action against one or both of them. Interesting to see what transpires regarding their failure to play given the vote.

al_quaker
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by al_quaker » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:48 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:09 pm


Doesn’t read like that to me
In the interests of balance, reads exactly like that to me

For what it's worth, I think we should, if we can afford to, top up the 20% if/when the players are on furlough.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:56 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:09 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:00 pm
Nope, I’m talking about you. You know fine well what I’m referring to because I’ve already done it with BGA. But seeing as though you’re choosing to play dumb....
theoriginalfatcat wrote:Getting 80 % of your wage for not working sounds a good deal to me.
Massively simplistic and ignores that we have legal contractual obligations to meet. And that players have done nothing wrong.

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I’m just saying that personally I think the 80% is good, and by the time you haven’t paid work related expenses and paid less tax you shouldn’t grumble.
For the same reasons I’ve already given to BGA, you are perfectly entitled to complain if someone refuses to pay 20% of your salary through no fault of your own.

Unless you know the personal financial situation of all our players, you’re in no position to comment or tell people they “shouldn’t grumble” about losing part of their salary.

I would also add, for all BGA and I disagree, he’s kept it respectful. So dial down on the “shut up” talk.
Ah I see. I think you've misunderstood. When I wrote "personally" I meant personally, and I was writing about my personal views of the furlough scheme.

I worked for more than 30 years in a dirty dangerous job. If someone at any time had said to me "here have 80% of your wage for not working" to me, PERSONALLY, that would have been great and I would have bitten their hand off. By the time I'd not driven to work and paid less tax I would have been financially okay, and of course also I could have done better things with my time. Now go back and re-read my points and you will see I've never said we should not pay the extra 20%, I don't think that either. I was trying to ascertain if we had to, and what the consequences were if we didn't.
Doesn’t read like that to me. Here’s the full post for context:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:I doubt if they’ll be a problem as both management and players conduct themselves well - I’m just saying that personally I think the 80% is good, and by the time you haven’t paid work related expenses and paid less tax you shouldn’t grumble.

If it comes to it of course.
You start off by talking about the club’s management and players.

Then afterwards, “If it comes to it” which again is referring back to the club’s situation. To me it reads like you’re saying the players getting 80% is a good deal.

Just for clarity then, do you think the players getting only 80% of their wages is a good deal? And do you think we should pay the additional 20%?
For clarity, if I was a player getting 80% of my wage for not working would be a good deal for me, you know PERSONALLY.

As for the players themselves I have as much idea as to how they view things as you do, some might be okay with it, some might not, but I doubt if they’ll be a problem as both management and players conduct themselves well!!

As for the second part of your question, yes I do think we should pay the extra 20% - as long as it doesn't push us into financial difficulties.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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quakersfan
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by quakersfan » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:30 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:48 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:09 pm


Doesn’t read like that to me
In the interests of balance, reads exactly like that to me

For what it's worth, I think we should, if we can afford to, top up the 20% if/when the players are on furlough.
I certainly wouldn’t be paying the extra 20% if the club is losing money and the club will still need to pay Employers Tax & NI. Players like everyone else won’t be spending out on stuff and if they have a day job as most of them do will likely be saving money overall, personally think players are in a good position financially.

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:50 pm

quakersfan wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:30 pm
al_quaker wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:48 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:09 pm


Doesn’t read like that to me
In the interests of balance, reads exactly like that to me

For what it's worth, I think we should, if we can afford to, top up the 20% if/when the players are on furlough.
I certainly wouldn’t be paying the extra 20% if the club is losing money and the club will still need to pay Employers Tax & NI. Players like everyone else won’t be spending out on stuff and if they have a day job as most of them do will likely be saving money overall, personally think players are in a good position financially.
What do you mean by Employers Tax?

Obviously the club would be largely losing money paying 20% as we have no income currently, other than Boost the Budget, 50/50's etc. So you would save the 20% even if it means the players can leave free and any 1 year extensions in the clubs favour are null and void?

Also throwing in us expecting them to turn up next week for training, then the game, put a full shift in and try to get us through to the Semi Final and earning the club money?

All this after the club they played for decided to vote to end the season and therefore reduce their pay opportunity.

quakersfan
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by quakersfan » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:59 pm

Under Furlough Employers are responsible for paying paye and employers NI costs on a monthly basis. If you are paying the additional 20% then those costs will rise.

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Season null and voided

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:19 pm

quakersfan wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:59 pm
Under Furlough Employers are responsible for paying paye and employers NI costs on a monthly basis. If you are paying the additional 20% then those costs will rise.
For PAYE and employee NI then in theory it's paid by the player (from wages), if not furloughed this would still be paid but deducted from players wage and sent to HMRC? Same with Employers National Insurance contributions, if not furloughed the club would pay this also?

Still not sure what extra we would be paying that we wouldn't be paying if the players were not furloughed, or are you just trying to reduce outgoings to a minimum?

Also are you saying you would be comfortable risking losing any player contract extensions?

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