GOWLING OUT

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beatroute66
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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by beatroute66 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:16 pm

Just on player recruitment and geography, a fan who had emailed in to express some thoughts on the last few weeks shared the club's response on social media, which contained the following parag:

"On player recruitment we have brought in two perm signings, Rowe & Ngandu, who are from the midlands and they are both re-locating to the local area. The other signings are all Yorkshire/NE based within a commutable distance."

And to be fair to Josh, Alun did a good job in the Yorkshire recruitment market too - Purver, Taylor, Lawlor, Lees, Platt, Hatfield, Hazel, etc.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:29 pm

Nothing on Taylor, Sukar, Lees & Nelson being offered out to other clubs then?

Like I said, relying on players from the Midlands isn't sustainable, whether they relocate or not. Nor is the dependence on temporary loanees in favour of good, local players (i.e. Winfield over Hedley, Robson over Taylor), because what will happen is they will get fed up, depart & we are then left with no longevity.

It's like nobody learned anything under Tommy Wright.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by loan_star » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:31 pm

beatroute66 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:16 pm
Just on player recruitment and geography, a fan who had emailed in to express some thoughts on the last few weeks shared the club's response on social media, which contained the following parag:

"On player recruitment we have brought in two perm signings, Rowe & Ngandu, who are from the midlands and they are both re-locating to the local area. The other signings are all Yorkshire/NE based within a commutable distance."

And to be fair to Josh, Alun did a good job in the Yorkshire recruitment market too - Purver, Taylor, Lawlor, Lees, Platt, Hatfield, Hazel, etc.
AA's first move was to sign the Blyth contingent, local lads who were proven at this level and who strengthened what we had already. He then added players from further afield to this over time. He certainly didn't bomb out half of Tommy's squad within weeks of his appointment.

Fair play to the lads who are moving up here. I believe the analyst is also relocating here too although I think this is also an extra wage we don't really need to be spending on.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:37 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:31 pm
beatroute66 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:16 pm
Just on player recruitment and geography, a fan who had emailed in to express some thoughts on the last few weeks shared the club's response on social media, which contained the following parag:

"On player recruitment we have brought in two perm signings, Rowe & Ngandu, who are from the midlands and they are both re-locating to the local area. The other signings are all Yorkshire/NE based within a commutable distance."

And to be fair to Josh, Alun did a good job in the Yorkshire recruitment market too - Purver, Taylor, Lawlor, Lees, Platt, Hatfield, Hazel, etc.
AA's first move was to sign the Blyth contingent, local lads who were proven at this level and who strengthened what we had already. He then added players from further afield to this over time. He certainly didn't bomb out half of Tommy's squad within weeks of his appointment.

Fair play to the lads who are moving up here. I believe the analyst is also relocating here too although I think this is also an extra wage we don't really need to be spending on.
I was at the Fans' Forum in the Dolphin Centre when Alun was first appointed in 2019.

One of the first things he talked about was signing local players, he explained that he felt that the club had lost its identity with players/management commuting long distances.

The whole room applauded.

Players like Taylor, Hedley, Sukar, Lees (has been poor this season but there is a player there), Liddle etc, should be a solid core to build around. Instead, Gowling has listed 3 of them, and I'm not convinced he likes Liddle after signing Ngandu to play his role & he has dropped Hedley.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Vodka_Vic » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:45 pm

Playing devil's advocate here.
In his interview I believe he had analysed Darlington games, maybe even watched them, and has concluded that a number of players, who have played appallingly since February, are not good enough, regardless of seniority or not, so feels the squad needs big changes

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by beatroute66 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:47 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:31 pm
AA's first move was to sign the Blyth contingent, local lads who were proven at this level and who strengthened what we had already. He then added players from further afield to this over time. He certainly didn't bomb out half of Tommy's squad within weeks of his appointment.

Fair play to the lads who are moving up here. I believe the analyst is also relocating here too although I think this is also an extra wage we don't really need to be spending on.
Hmmn. Alun was lucky to have a pre-season, I guess, but massively overhauled the squad himself.

I've just looked - his first XI at Farsley in August 2019 had 8 new signings in it: Elliott, Liddle, Hatfield, Laing, Rivers, Holness, Campbell and Holmes. Donowa, O'Neill, Watson and Bascome on the bench too. David Atkinson was injured.

The only remnants of TW's reign/before were Trotman (who played twice under Alun), Galbraith, Thompson and Wheatley (who got into the side early September).

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Vodka_Vic » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:51 pm

Let's also remember that the board, some of who post on here, will be feeling the pressure and responsibility too, so they too need our support at the moment, whether or not you agree with the Gowling appointment. The thought of a possible relegation must be weighing heavily on them, and all decisions will have been made with the good of the club at heart.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by beatroute66 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:52 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:37 pm
I was at the Fans' Forum in the Dolphin Centre when Alun was first appointed in 2019.

One of the first things he talked about was signing local players, he explained that he felt that the club had lost its identity with players/management commuting long distances.

The whole room applauded.

Players like Taylor, Hedley, Sukar, Lees (has been poor this season but there is a player there), Liddle etc, should be a solid core to build around. Instead, Gowling has listed 3 of them, and I'm not convinced he likes Liddle after signing Ngandu to play his role & he has dropped Hedley.
I keep saying - Alun had barely played Hedley and Liddle this season prior to Josh's arrival.

I get it on Taylor, Sukar and Lees, but not every senior pro not playing now was playing all the time prior to the change in manager.

Plus, whether folk like his approach/agree with his decisions or not, Josh has been employed to manage the squad, buy/sell players and 'set up' how he sees fit.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:04 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:45 pm
Playing devil's advocate here.
In his interview I believe he had analysed Darlington games, maybe even watched them, and has concluded that a number of players, who have played appallingly since February, are not good enough, regardless of seniority or not, so feels the squad needs big changes
Some of the same players who got us top at the New Year?

Gowling said, "these are my boys now" & thanked Alun for handing over this squad. He then proceeded to try & get rid of a lot of them.

Taylor, Sukar, Lees, Felix, Barnes, Nelson - all offered to other clubs, sent back to their parent club or departed.

Mustoe, Moke, Hedley & possibly Liddle not fancied.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by grimsbyquaker » Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:06 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:45 pm
Playing devil's advocate here.
In his interview I believe he had analysed Darlington games, maybe even watched them, and has concluded that a number of players, who have played appallingly since February, are not good enough, regardless of seniority or not, so feels the squad needs big changes
True! These ‘local lads’ haven’t exactly set the league on fire. Lambert and ‘Becky’ (who was a last-minute, unplanned signing) helped to paper over the cracks of a leaky defence. When they didn’t fire (there were some pretty dire away games prior to last January) we were pretty poor and still got turned over by more ‘average’ teams that were well-drilled.
No doubt when JG goes his replacement will say the same stuff as AA about identity and local lads etc and the cycle will turn again. Maybe a stadium/outside investment will make us more attractive to a higher calibre of ‘local lad’

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:12 pm

beatroute66 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:52 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:37 pm
I was at the Fans' Forum in the Dolphin Centre when Alun was first appointed in 2019.

One of the first things he talked about was signing local players, he explained that he felt that the club had lost its identity with players/management commuting long distances.

The whole room applauded.

Players like Taylor, Hedley, Sukar, Lees (has been poor this season but there is a player there), Liddle etc, should be a solid core to build around. Instead, Gowling has listed 3 of them, and I'm not convinced he likes Liddle after signing Ngandu to play his role & he has dropped Hedley.
I keep saying - Alun had barely played Hedley and Liddle this season prior to Josh's arrival.

I get it on Taylor, Sukar and Lees, but not every senior pro not playing now was playing all the time prior to the change in manager.

Plus, whether folk like his approach/agree with his decisions or not, Josh has been employed to manage the squad, buy/sell players and 'set up' how he sees fit.
Liddle played in 6 out of Alun's 8 matches this season - but I agree on Hedley he didn't play at all under Alun this season.

That said, Hedley has proven he more than capable, looking at the 100+ matches he has played for us prior to this season rather than this season's first 8 games? Only 25 & entering the peak years as a full-back, dropped for a 20-year old on loan from Barnsley who Alfreton sent back as he wasn't ready for men's football?

Everyone gets that Gowling is in charge & calling the shots, but that doesn't mean his decisions are the correct ones and shouldn't be discussed. I know that isn't what you are saying, however it's kind of coming across that way.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by beatroute66 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:24 pm

I think Ben Hedley is great - he's never let us down and done a great job at RB, LB and (on rare occasion) further up the pitch over the years. My hunch is that Josh doesn't see Ben as an out'n'out wing back, perhaps, hence the change in personnel at FB?

And agree that Josh's decisions are there to be analysed, discussed, challenged, etc, as with every manager. I'm in the camp that believes that the squad Josh inherited should no way be bottom of the table, but likewise I also expected Josh (or whoever) to come in and start making some immediate changes. I get that there is a lot of debate around how much and how quickly, and everyone will have a view.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:46 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:45 pm
Playing devil's advocate here.
In his interview I believe he had analysed Darlington games, maybe even watched them, and has concluded that a number of players, who have played appallingly since February, are not good enough, regardless of seniority or not, so feels the squad needs big changes
Some of the same players who got us top at the New Year?

Gowling said, "these are my boys now" & thanked Alun for handing over this squad. He then proceeded to try & get rid of a lot of them.

Taylor, Sukar, Lees, Felix, Barnes, Nelson - all offered to other clubs, sent back to their parent club or departed.

Mustoe, Moke, Hedley & possibly Liddle not fancied.
Gowling should have a major re-think regarding moving some of these lads on.Taylor,Sukar,Nelson and Lees still have a future at the club and surely he's been far too hasty, they are far better options than his obsession with bringing in young, inexperienced kids into men's football.Not sure why he seems determined to freeze them out in all honesty and totally agree with Darlofan97.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by loan_star » Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:57 pm

grimsbyquaker wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:06 pm

True! These ‘local lads’ haven’t exactly set the league on fire. Lambert and ‘Becky’ (who was a last-minute, unplanned signing) helped to paper over the cracks of a leaky defence
Alun was after Beck for most of the summer, the player was just keeping his options open.
Saying he was a last minute unplanned signing is so far off the mark!

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:06 pm

Obviously the proof of JG's recruitment and tactical approach will come in the next few weeks. He has so far been supremely confident that things will turn and we will start to win matches.

Unfortunately so far as he instigates his revolution we have continued to look vulnerable at the back and lacking in creativity and goals up front.

Would be good to see some small signs that this is changing before we face a mountain to climb to get out of this mess. I've got grave doubts, for a lot of reasons, but we shall see.

I hope more than anything that JG silences the doubters and gets us on track like he said he would and repeats after each game that passes us by.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Spyman » Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:43 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:45 am
This is a forum though, where you are permitted to discuss matters relating to the football club. Good & bad.

If Gowling started to pick up results/managed the players correctly, then my (or anybody else's) comments would have been redundant. Football is full of terrible opinions writing individuals off.

To suggest that a few comments that were made upon his appointment casting doubt on his suitability to the role has now influenced matters on the pitch is a far stretch.
Firstly, yes it is a forum and yes you are allowed to say what you want. My point was that I'm not sure there was anything positive to be gained by making those sorts of comments at that moment in time - both statements can be true.

Secondly, I don't think its that much of a stretch to suggest that things said on social media can snowball and can make their way back to the players and could lead to some prejudice over the new managers ability. As you say, its an open forum and anyone can say what they want, and anyone can read and pass on what is written.

I quite clearly said that may not have been the case in this instance, but its an example of a negative outcome that could come about from sharing your negative research before a ball has been kicked.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Spyman » Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:49 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:29 pm
Nothing on Taylor, Sukar, Lees & Nelson being offered out to other clubs then?

Like I said, relying on players from the Midlands isn't sustainable, whether they relocate or not. Nor is the dependence on temporary loanees in favour of good, local players (i.e. Winfield over Hedley, Robson over Taylor), because what will happen is they will get fed up, depart & we are then left with no longevity.

It's like nobody learned anything under Tommy Wright.
Agree on loan players, you can't build a squad around them long term for very obvious reasons.

I don't see any issue with players who are not born and bred in the north east if they're willing to relocate. If they have jobs that allow them to live and work locally then no problem at all - thats the only thing I can see that makes it any more complicated at this level than for full time players, for whom relocating is part and parcel of being a footballer.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:27 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:57 pm
grimsbyquaker wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:06 pm

True! These ‘local lads’ haven’t exactly set the league on fire. Lambert and ‘Becky’ (who was a last-minute, unplanned signing) helped to paper over the cracks of a leaky defence
Alun was after Beck for most of the summer, the player was just keeping his options open.
Saying he was a last minute unplanned signing is so far off the mark!

I don't think it is Loan-star. Beck was keeping his options open and it transpired that nothing good came in for him, clubs must have been a bit wary, meaning that he came to Darlo at the last minute to get himself noticed. He left at his first good opportunity - but at least we had him for while.

But moving on, I think the title of this thread is poor! It's hardly conducive to us discussing Josh and his efforts in a sensible manner, IMO there was always going to be upheaval.

Some people seem very sure about what may or may not have been on the cards when Josh turned up - but surely a lot of this noise has been guesswork.

Perhaps Josh intimated to D.J. and others that he was planning to bring in a number of loan signings? Perhaps D.J. and others agreed with this? Perhaps a number of our original squad had fallen out of favour with not only the manager but those upstairs? Perhaps the original squad had become too used to sitting in the same old places in the changing room, experiencing the same old clapped out results and hiding behind the same old evergreen excuse that was being put out, namely "we have a small budget/don't expect too much/we're no good now that Beck has gone/blah blah"

Perhaps it was needed to be discovered who's heart was in it and who's wasn't? Perhaps there are reasons that we don't know of that Josh doesn't rate Taylor? Or wanted to give him a break? I don't know the answers to these questions but neither does anyone else - on here at least.

Josh needs to be given a fair crack of the whip, that's all I'm saying, but some people made up their minds before he'd even played one game - and this is not only unfair, it's counter productive too because we need to get behind the team. Josh needs to pin down who is up for the fight - settle his team down and go out and get some points and this will be a lot easier if the fans are onboard and supporting the team properly.

I think this situation can and will be turned round, it's just not going as fast as people like.
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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:37 pm

Spyman wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:49 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:29 pm
Nothing on Taylor, Sukar, Lees & Nelson being offered out to other clubs then?

Like I said, relying on players from the Midlands isn't sustainable, whether they relocate or not. Nor is the dependence on temporary loanees in favour of good, local players (i.e. Winfield over Hedley, Robson over Taylor), because what will happen is they will get fed up, depart & we are then left with no longevity.

It's like nobody learned anything under Tommy Wright.
Agree on loan players, you can't build a squad around them long term for very obvious reasons.

I don't see any issue with players who are not born and bred in the north east if they're willing to relocate. If they have jobs that allow them to live and work locally then no problem at all - thats the only thing I can see that makes it any more complicated at this level than for full time players, for whom relocating is part and parcel of being a footballer.
I will try & articulate this as best as I can.

The pool of players willing to relocate from say, the Midlands, to Darlington, is very, very small. We don't pay big enough wages to justify it, plus the fact we only - typically - hand out one-year contracts.

You will note the ages of Rowe (21) & Ngandu (22), both are young for footballers & likely have no roots looking at their careers. It would be different for any other part-time players that are older with a mortgage, family, steady job in the area etc, to give that up & move.

That really limits the pool of part-time players available out of the NE & Yorkshire.

For those that try the commute from the Midlands (or further out) to Darlington, we have seen that is not sustainable. We saw Trotman & Nicholson hand in transfer requests, Styche sold after 11 months, O'Hanlon spit his dummy out when Kidderminster were after him & Felix also sold.

We would be much, much better suited recruiting players from the NE/Yorkshire. It gives you that stability & continuity you need. You develop these players and they become the spine of your side.

I will bet my bottom dollar that Rowe & Ngandu will not be here beyond the next 6 months.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:08 pm

To discuss this a bit more 97 -

Didn't we choose to sell Styche for the money? I remember that he was happy to stay.

Secondly, you may well be right about picking local players in a perfect world, however bearing in mind that at present we are in a bit of a jam, does it matter if Rowe and Ngandu leave after 6 months? If they help us move up the table. In any case one or both of them could stay.
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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:48 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:08 pm
To discuss this a bit more 97 -

Didn't we choose to sell Styche for the money? I remember that he was happy to stay.

Secondly, you may well be right about picking local players in a perfect world, however bearing in mind that at present we are in a bit of a jam, does it matter if Rowe and Ngandu leave after 6 months? If they help us move up the table. In any case one or both of them could stay.
Yes re. Styche.

We are currently in a bit of a pickle, yes, but the problem with mixing the cocktail of a few Midlands players, temporary loanees, plus listing decent local players is you cause a squad-planning crisis.

It isn't necessarily about the next 6 months. In the back of your mind, you have to be thinking about two possible scenarios:

1) That Josh Gowling won't be here beyond the next 5/6 months.

2) Relegation to the NPL

We are basically attempting to sell some very capable local players for a very short-term solution that may not even work, but it also might.

I'm desperate for us to stay up, but I am also realistic. Keeping a core a good, local players would give us the best possible chance of bouncing back up from the NPL. Taylor entering his peak, Hedley, Sukar & Lees all not even reached theirs yet. Liddle would walk the NPL.

If Gowling gets his own way & shifts the likes of Taylor, Hedley, Sukar, Lees, Nelson etc and signs kids, and we still get relegated, then I cannot tell you how bad that scenario will be.

It will be a complete rebuild, and it'll be turbulent.

Unfortunately, the Board are in an impossible position. They have to back him & allow him to continue to try get rid of the players he wants to lose, even though they are capable at this level, as proven over the last 3/4 years.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by loan_star » Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:01 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:27 pm


I don't think it is Loan-star. Beck was keeping his options open and it transpired that nothing good came in for him, clubs must have been a bit wary, meaning that he came to Darlo at the last minute to get himself noticed. He left at his first good opportunity - but at least we had him for while.
Alun made Beck an offer but he did prefer to stay full time and waited to see if that was a possibility. It didn't transpire. It still means that Alun was after Beck as soon as he was made available for a move.
Yes he left at the first opportunity, a bid was made that matched the release clause and he was offered silly money to move. It was a downer for us but a no brainer for him.

As for Gowling, I hope he proves me wrong sooner rather than later as I think he's a decent bloke. I just think he's not the right pick for the job and I have serious doubts about his transfer activity so far.
If we wait too long when its obviously not working then thats us screwed and as 97 says, it will leave a massive mess for the next man to clear up when most of the local lads have been flogged off already and the Gowling signings decide they don't want to be here any more.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Quakerlad » Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:55 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:48 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:08 pm
To discuss this a bit more 97 -

Didn't we choose to sell Styche for the money? I remember that he was happy to stay.

Secondly, you may well be right about picking local players in a perfect world, however bearing in mind that at present we are in a bit of a jam, does it matter if Rowe and Ngandu leave after 6 months? If they help us move up the table. In any case one or both of them could stay.
Yes re. Styche.

We are currently in a bit of a pickle, yes, but the problem with mixing the cocktail of a few Midlands players, temporary loanees, plus listing decent local players is you cause a squad-planning crisis.

It isn't necessarily about the next 6 months. In the back of your mind, you have to be thinking about two possible scenarios:

1) That Josh Gowling won't be here beyond the next 5/6 months.

2) Relegation to the NPL

We are basically attempting to sell some very capable local players for a very short-term solution that may not even work, but it also might.

I'm desperate for us to stay up, but I am also realistic. Keeping a core a good, local players would give us the best possible chance of bouncing back up from the NPL. Taylor entering his peak, Hedley, Sukar & Lees all not even reached theirs yet. Liddle would walk the NPL.

If Gowling gets his own way & shifts the likes of Taylor, Hedley, Sukar, Lees, Nelson etc and signs kids, and we still get relegated, then I cannot tell you how bad that scenario will be.

It will be a complete rebuild, and it'll be turbulent.

Unfortunately, the Board are in an impossible position. They have to back him & allow him to continue to try get rid of the players he wants to lose, even though they are capable at this level, as proven over the last 3/4 years.
Pretty much sums up the problem we have and it’s become a big problem.

What was needed was to appoint a “man manager” who could organise the current squad, get their confidence back, build back the team spirit, play with a tried and tested system which suited the squad and make 2/3 additions of a level who could come in and kick on from the start.

Don’t know the guy so maybe a tad unfair but what we seem to have got is the almost the complete opposite, and there lies the problem.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:56 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:48 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:08 pm
To discuss this a bit more 97 -

Didn't we choose to sell Styche for the money? I remember that he was happy to stay.j

Secondly, you may well be right about picking local players in a perfect world, however bearing in mind that at present we are in a bit of a jam, does it matter if Rowe and Ngandu leave after 6 months? If they help us move up the table. In any case one or both of them could stay.
Yes re. Styche.

We are currently in a bit of a pickle, yes, but the problem with mixing the cocktail of a few Midlands players, temporary loanees, plus listing decent local players is you cause a squad-planning crisis.

It isn't necessarily about the next 6 months. In the back of your mind, you have to be thinking about two possible scenarios:

1) That Josh Gowling won't be here beyond the next 5/6 months.

2) Relegation to the NPL

We are basically attempting to sell some very capable local players for a very short-term solution that may not even work, but it also might.

I'm desperate for us to stay up, but I am also realistic. Keeping a core a good, local players would give us the best possible chance of bouncing back up from the NPL. Taylor entering his peak, Hedley, Sukar & Lees all not even reached theirs yet. Liddle would walk the NPL.

If Gowling gets his own way & shifts the likes of Taylor, Hedley, Sukar, Lees, Nelson etc and signs kids, and we still get relegated, then I cannot tell you how bad that scenario will be.

It will be a complete rebuild, and it'll be turbulent.

Unfortunately, the Board are in an impossible position. They have to back him & allow him to continue to try get rid of the players he wants to lose, even though they are capable at this level, as proven over the last 3/4 years.
Hmmm, I dunno about all that.

Firstly, are we definitely trying to “sell some very capable local players” ? Is this written down on a transfer list? Has it been confirmed by the club?

Secondly, are they even “very capable” ? Hardly any players have performed well throughout 2023, it wouldn’t be heartbreaking for me to see a number of them go, especially if they’ve gone in to limp mode.
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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by DavidCurriesMullet » Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:04 pm

I have yet to see anything that suggests Liddle would walk the NPL.

The best way to bounce back is to find a quality centre forward, a la Graeme Armstrong/Beck, and a creative game changer, a la Steve Thompson/Lambert. The lack of both since January is why an average team is struggling. Armstrong couldn't find them for the money we had, and now we haven't got the money. Gowling could have worked with what we had as you say, made us harder to beat, but the players pre Gowling made just as many defensive mistakes, and created just as little.

Re the "listed" players - is the lack of any movement not telling?

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:32 pm

Tommy Taylor - Almost 100+ appearances at this level. Best permanent goalkeeper we have had since Bartlett.

Ben Hedley - 100+ appearances at NLN level. Very dependable, good distribution & can play RB & LB.

Toby Lees - 100+ appearances at NLN level. Blyth Fans' Player of the Year.

Jassem Sukar - Solid performer. Gives us natural balance in that LCB role & is good carrying the ball out from the back. Vocal & potential vice-captain material. Whitby fans loved him.

It is too easy to say that because we have been dreadful in 2023, that the players are terrible too. Taylor, Hedley & Sukar all got us top by New Year, which flips that on its head.

The truth is they're somewhere in the middle. These players aren't world-beaters, but they are solid, dependable options.

To see attempts to force them out, for what will probably be more kids, or loan players, or players from the Midlands, is tough.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:41 pm

DavidCurriesMullet wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:04 pm
I have yet to see anything that suggests Liddle would walk the NPL.

The best way to bounce back is to find a quality centre forward, a la Graeme Armstrong/Beck, and a creative game changer, a la Steve Thompson/Lambert. The lack of both since January is why an average team is struggling. Armstrong couldn't find them for the money we had, and now we haven't got the money. Gowling could have worked with what we had as you say, made us harder to beat, but the players pre Gowling made just as many defensive mistakes, and created just as little.

Re the "listed" players - is the lack of any movement not telling?
Taylor, Griffiths, Lawlor, Lees, Sukar, Hedley, Platt, Hatfield, Moke, Liddle, Felix, Rivers, Hazel, Barnes, Nelson

That was a solid enough core for a manager to walk in to, set us up in a proper system, and get us picking up points.

Instead we have sold one of them, sent another back, offered 3/4 out to other clubs, dropped Hedley & signed another 8 players on top.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by CrazyDarlo » Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:02 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:32 pm
It is too easy to say that because we have been dreadful in 2023, that the players are terrible too. Taylor, Hedley & Sukar all got us top by New Year, which flips that on its head.

.
None of those players got us top by new year. Lambert, Hazel and most significantly Beck got us there. Other than 3-4 really good performances, we most of the first half of the season complaining about how average the performances are, Beck was constantly getting us out of trouble.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:09 pm

CrazyDarlo wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:02 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:32 pm
It is too easy to say that because we have been dreadful in 2023, that the players are terrible too. Taylor, Hedley & Sukar all got us top by New Year, which flips that on its head.

.
None of those players got us top by new year. Lambert, Hazel and most significantly Beck got us there. Other than 3-4 really good performances, we most of the first half of the season complaining about how average the performances are, Beck was constantly getting us out of trouble.
Did we only play with 3 players?

I literally said those players above weren’t fantastic, but not terrible either. The answer is somewhere in between.

You, again, take what I say completely out of context & incorrectly.

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Re: GOWLING OUT

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:37 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:Tommy Taylor - Almost 100+ appearances at this level. Best permanent goalkeeper we have had since Bartlett.

Ben Hedley - 100+ appearances at NLN level. Very dependable, good distribution & can play RB & LB.

Toby Lees - 100+ appearances at NLN level. Blyth Fans' Player of the Year.

Jassem Sukar - Solid performer. Gives us natural balance in that LCB role & is good carrying the ball out from the back. Vocal & potential vice-captain material. Whitby fans loved him.

It is too easy to say that because we have been dreadful in 2023, that the players are terrible too. Taylor, Hedley & Sukar all got us top by New Year, which flips that on its head.

The truth is they're somewhere in the middle. These players aren't world-beaters, but they are solid, dependable options.

To see attempts to force them out, for what will probably be more kids, or loan players, or players from the Midlands, is tough.
Agree 100%

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