GOWLING OUT

[theoriginalfatcat]

Does the next manager get 6 games if we don't improve under him immediately? We becoming a club ran by the lynch mob?

Fucking exactly.

Lately, this forum has become joke.

What a great fanbase we have.

97 pontificating like some wise old sage because he’s subscribed to a monthly football stats package.

Others stating stuff like - Taylor wouldn’t have let certain goals in

With Taylor - we’d have four more points

Taylor- would have got a strong arm to that

Also stuff like - how we need to keep playing the same old trusted players who have proved themselves at this level

I can barely believe some of the nonsense I’ve been reading lately. Twitter rumours about losing the dressing room, Twitter rumours about which managers were offered the job, I mean I heard a twitter rumour about Jim Morrison, like he's not dead - it's right too because, well it just is.

[real_darlo_85]

Does the next manager get 6 games if we don't improve under him immediately? We becoming a club ran by the lynch mob?

Fucking exactly.

Lately, this forum has become joke.

What a great fanbase we have.

97 pontificating like some wise old sage because he’s subscribed to a monthly football stats package.

Others stating stuff like - Taylor wouldn’t have let certain goals in

With Taylor - we’d have four more points

Taylor- would have got a strong arm to that

Also stuff like - how we need to keep playing the same old trusted players who have proved themselves at this level

I can barely believe some of the nonsense I’ve been reading lately. Twitter rumours about losing the dressing room, Twitter rumours about which managers were offered the job, I mean I heard a twitter rumour about Jim Morrison, like he's not dead - it's right too because, well it just is.

JG has been a left field appointment and of course club supporters have a right to raise their opinions. The debate is whether he is capable of getting us out of this relegation mess and at the moment there is far more evidence to suggest he isn't. Of course we can't predict the future but right now the pressure is on him and the board, who made the decision to appoint him, to turn this around and quickly.

My concern is that when he was appointed, he suggested that the squad wasn't that bad and required a few tweaks to get things organised. The reaction has so far been the opposite, so is this a management failing to get the best out of the players or are they just not good enough? Then his solution so far has been to bring in a whole mishmash of loan signings of young players with nearly no experience of this level, whilst seemingly hellbent trying to play one certain formation.

I think at the moment the scrutiny is well and truly justified.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Scrutiny - yes.

Rumour mongering, exaggerating, s*** stirring, re writing history - no.

Also I reckon that some of the new signings look quite promising, a point barely mentioned within this vicious circle of denigration.

[TKOA]

In hindsight AA should have been let go in the summer, he looked like a beaten man at the end of the season and in need of a good rest. I can’t imagine what his state of mind was like over the summer but he clearly wasn’t up to another season with us.

JG has acquired a squad of players still hungover from last seasons collapse and has a serious job on his hands. Some of his early decisions have been strange but 6 matches is not enough to judge him on, sacking him at this point would be insane.

The clubs social media has been toxic recently, I think a small of our fans enjoy it when we struggle and just enjoy a good whinge. We’re well supported at this level, let’s outnumber Farsley on Saturday and make a good racket in that stand behind the goal and get behind this team. Haway the lads.

[Darlofan97]

Does the next manager get 6 games if we don't improve under him immediately? We becoming a club ran by the lynch mob?

Fucking exactly.

Lately, this forum has become joke.

What a great fanbase we have.

97 pontificating like some wise old sage because he’s subscribed to a monthly football stats package.

Others stating stuff like - Taylor wouldn’t have let certain goals in

With Taylor - we’d have four more points

Taylor- would have got a strong arm to that

Also stuff like - how we need to keep playing the same old trusted players who have proved themselves at this level

I can barely believe some of the nonsense I’ve been reading lately. Twitter rumours about losing the dressing room, Twitter rumours about which managers were offered the job, I mean I heard a twitter rumour about Jim Morrison, like he's not dead - it's right too because, well it just is.

I’ve literally not even said that much.

You keep making personal attacks because you cannot even counter what I am saying. You’re now lashing out because what I originally said when Gowling was appointed is now coming true.

[DavidCurriesMullet]

There are also a tranche of supporters using Gowling's poor start to push an agenda against David Johnson and The Board. I would be far more worried about them declaring they'd had enough than losing a few games.

[onewayup]

The board and DJ have done a tremendous amount of good work within the community for our football club those calls for the board to go are the same calls that will be of how well the boards and DJ have done once this is turned around.my concern is those fans could have a destabilising effect which could destroy what has been built up over the last 12 year.lets stick together and get the club back on its feet.

[LoidLucan]

There are also a tranche of supporters using Gowling's poor start to push an agenda against David Johnson and The Board. I would be far more worried about them declaring they'd had enough than losing a few games.

That is a very fair point that you make. But there are also some very real and legitimate concerns about the new manager, his man management, how he is approaching things, his recruitment and the direction the club is taking. It is fair and reasonable these are raised as we sink deeper into trouble.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

Does the next manager get 6 games if we don't improve under him immediately? We becoming a club ran by the lynch mob?

Fucking exactly.

Lately, this forum has become joke.

What a great fanbase we have.

97 pontificating like some wise old sage because he’s subscribed to a monthly football stats package.

Others stating stuff like - Taylor wouldn’t have let certain goals in

With Taylor - we’d have four more points

Taylor- would have got a strong arm to that

Also stuff like - how we need to keep playing the same old trusted players who have proved themselves at this level

I can barely believe some of the nonsense I’ve been reading lately. Twitter rumours about losing the dressing room, Twitter rumours about which managers were offered the job, I mean I heard a twitter rumour about Jim Morrison, like he's not dead - it's right too because, well it just is.

In a way I do get your point.

From the outside looking in to sack a manager after 6 matches would be insane, and the logical thing would be to say "OK we're 0-2-4 but he still needs much more time to bring his own players and philosophy in etc etc etc". I get it.

But...

Sometimes you can just tell from the first minute that it isn't going to work. This feels like one of those times.

We did have a difficult start to the season playing many of the top teams, but Gowling has actually walked in to a bunch of easier fixtures. Fitures we would have been eyeing up to get some points on the board. He's used those fixtures to rip everything up and start again, costing us points in matches where we really, REALLY needed to win. The very first match, against Gloucester, who are shite, at home, we turned up with some sort of 5-4-1/5-5-0 formation, scraped a 1-1 draw.

The football is soul destroying and negative, he has no ambition to, you know, score a goal or two. We need WINS, and QUICKLY. You can't win if you don't create chances and score. It's alright saying "but we need to tighten up the defence" but even if you can guarantee a clean sheet every week, we aren't going to stay up with 30 0-0 draws. But of course, we will concede goals, so...?

Blyth was what did it for me. We literally played as if we were minnows facing some sort of vastly superior unit. They're Blyth, they will finish about 18th, they're shite. We were at home. I was appalled to hear us saying we expected not to have much of the ball. Against Blyth! At home!. That tells me everything. Zero ambition.

If our maximum effort is valiantly holding out for a 0-0 at home v Blyth then we are down already. It was described as a "morale boosting" result by Ray.

JG also seems to be following some sort of flawed reasoning where because we finally kept a clean sheet v Blyth then that ticked that box, and the next job is to score a goal, as if this is some sort of linear process where it will inevitably and increasingly build on top of itself. But what if we concede 2 in the next match? Oh...

So here we are. We've already wasted opportunities to gain valuable wins against shite by being negative, uncreative and meek, now we have two more matches against more shite which we now desperately need to win, and then it gets hard again vs Chester and Chorley.

Seriously, if we do not win any of the next two matches, I don't want to hear "but, but, but.." because we will never win again.

[QUAKERMAN2]

Does the next manager get 6 games if we don't improve under him immediately? We becoming a club ran by the lynch mob?

Fucking exactly.

Lately, this forum has become joke.

What a great fanbase we have.

97 pontificating like some wise old sage because he’s subscribed to a monthly football stats package.

Others stating stuff like - Taylor wouldn’t have let certain goals in

With Taylor - we’d have four more points

Taylor- would have got a strong arm to that

Also stuff like - how we need to keep playing the same old trusted players who have proved themselves at this level

I can barely believe some of the nonsense I’ve been reading lately. Twitter rumours about losing the dressing room, Twitter rumours about which managers were offered the job, I mean I heard a twitter rumour about Jim Morrison, like he's not dead - it's right too because, well it just is.

In a way I do get your point.

From the outside looking in to sack a manager after 6 matches would be insane, and the logical thing would be to say "OK we're 0-2-4 but he still needs much more time to bring his own players and philosophy in etc etc etc". I get it.

But...

Sometimes you can just tell from the first minute that it isn't going to work. This feels like one of those times.

We did have a difficult start to the season playing many of the top teams, but Gowling has actually walked in to a bunch of easier fixtures. Fitures we would have been eyeing up to get some points on the board. He's used those fixtures to rip everything up and start again, costing us points in matches where we really, REALLY needed to win. The very first match, against Gloucester, who are shite, at home, we turned up with some sort of 5-4-1/5-5-0 formation, scraped a 1-1 draw.

The football is soul destroying and negative, he has no ambition to, you know, score a goal or two. We need WINS, and QUICKLY. You can't win if you don't create chances and score. It's alright saying "but we need to tighten up the defence" but even if you can guarantee a clean sheet every week, we aren't going to stay up with 30 0-0 draws. But of course, we will concede goals, so...?

Blyth was what did it for me. We literally played as if we were minnows facing some sort of vastly superior unit. They're Blyth, they will finish about 18th, they're shite. We were at home. I was appalled to hear us saying we expected not to have much of the ball. Against Blyth! At home!. That tells me everything. Zero ambition.

If our maximum effort is valiantly holding out for a 0-0 at home v Blyth then we are down already. It was described as a "morale boosting" result by Ray.

JG also seems to be following some sort of flawed reasoning where because we finally kept a clean sheet v Blyth then that ticked that box, and the next job is to score a goal, as if this is some sort of linear process where it will inevitably and increasingly build on top of itself. But what if we concede 2 in the next match? Oh...

So here we are. We've already wasted opportunities to gain valuable wins against shite by being negative, uncreative and meek, now we have two more matches against more shite which we now desperately need to win, and then it gets hard again vs Chester and Chorley.

Seriously, if we do not win any of the next two matches, I don't want to hear "but, but, but.." because we will never win again.

Great post this, 100% spot on Ghost.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

[Ghost_Of_1883]

There are also a tranche of supporters using Gowling's poor start to push an agenda against David Johnson and The Board. I would be far more worried about them declaring they'd had enough than losing a few games.

Yes I agree with that.

As Tom Breedon said on X, the people pushing this agenda are the last people you'd want to have any involvement in running the club.

Let's say they did succeed in bringing the board down, you can bet none of them would be seen for dust, none of them would be stepping up.

[Quakerlad]

Yep, agree with both above posts.

Managers are one thing but to lose DJ and the board would be pretty catastrophic in my view.

Thing is with JG, I personally do not know of one single fan, that wants him to stay on as manager. Even the more normally neutral types think he is not the man for the job, short or long term. For clearly a bright guy, he really has done on a job in alienating most of the fan base in such a short period.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

Right I'm actually going to take back my last couple of posts on this thread.

Although I meant what I said about my misgivings, I'm now not really sure how helpful it is to keep on at it - it's just jumping into the "pile on" and that helps no one. I could continue to be critical but there's nothing more that I can add which is new, so time to think about just supporting for a while, and keep my fingers crossed.

Some other people have made good points on this thread, so I'm going to sort of yield to them and get behind the manager for better or for worse - see my my new thread " Last 6 matches vs next 6 matches"

[Darlo_Pete]

Welcome back Q. We really need to get behind the team and manager. You never know things may get better, let's face it things can't get any worse.

[Old Git]

The problem is that by being so critical of JG means that you are also having a go at the competency of the Board, who unanimously selected him after a rigorous interview process. I believe we had around 30 or more serious applications, interviewing 7 or 8 candidates and everyone believed he was the man for the job. Now 6 games in many supporters are saying he is not the right man. What sort of message does that send to the people in charge.
Getting relegated would be a huge blow to the club but losing the current board members would be a disaster. I share some of the concerns and disappointment regarding our current situation, and I can see parallels with what has happened in the past, but we all need to support Josh and the Board in the best interests of the club.

[Darlo Dodger]

There are also a tranche of supporters using Gowling's poor start to push an agenda against David Johnson and The Board. I would be far more worried about them declaring they'd had enough than losing a few games.

Absolutely right.

[don'tbuythesun]

As I rarely get to games it's hard to reflect on the current situation but I was thinking back to the Fylde away game in March when 7 of our current squad started with Liddle coming on as a sub with a not fully fit Nelson firing in two goals and us pushing the league leaders until the end. How can things have gone so wrong. And Beck wasn't in the team!

[Yarblockos]

Thank God we have DJ at the helm, if he wasn't here I can't image where we'd be, probably bottom of the league and facing relegation to the NPL.

[loan_star]

Its possible to back the board and still think Gowling was the wrong choice.
I didnt think Wright was the right choice either but given his connections I thought it might work out.
How Gowling was first choice, given his record, baffles me even more than Wright did.

[quakersam]

Its possible to back the board and still think Gowling was the wrong choice.
I didnt think Wright was the right choice either but given his connections I thought it might work out.
How Gowling was first choice, given his record, baffles me even more than Wright did.

100%. The board of this club are not untouchable, volunteers or not. They have to be accountable for decisions they make and DJ is fully aware of that. I’m sure most level headed people are fully behind the board to do the day to day job of running the club but the key decisions have to be right and if they aren’t, we as owners have a duty to voice those concerns. Judging by social media, especially post game Saturday, a large percentage have already lost faith in Gowling, myself included and that will take a lot to recover from

[Darlobill]

Wish we could be talking about positive wins and climbing up the table and TBH getting fed up of all this. Give Gowling until mid December and if he still hasn’t got any wins under his belt then the board need to act quickly to put someone new in for the Christmas period. If I was them I’d be sounding potential candidates out now.

[D_F_C]

Its possible to back the board and still think Gowling was the wrong choice.
I didnt think Wright was the right choice either but given his connections I thought it might work out.
How Gowling was first choice, given his record, baffles me even more than Wright did.

100%. The board of this club are not untouchable, volunteers or not. They have to be accountable for decisions they make and DJ is fully aware of that. I’m sure most level headed people are fully behind the board to do the day to day job of running the club but the key decisions have to be right and if they aren’t, we as owners have a duty to voice those concerns. Judging by social media, especially post game Saturday, a large percentage have already lost faith in Gowling, myself included and that will take a lot to recover from

I would like to know the exact definition of accountable as people will interrupt in different ways. Some would want heads to roll, some may just want the board to say, yes we were wrong.

[eddie-rowles]

Wish we could be talking about positive wins and climbing up the table and TBH getting fed up of all this. Give Gowling until mid December and if he still hasn’t got any wins under his belt then the board need to act quickly to put someone new in for the Christmas period. If I was them I’d be sounding potential candidates out now.

If we havent won by mid december its too late your then looking at going on some unbelievable run, having to win every home game (36pts) and never lose an away game (11pts) to stay up and that is not going to happen. Don't pick up a couple of wins in November you could bring in Eddie Howe even he couldn't turn this around. The manager doesn't rate 9 of the squad, Taylor,Kelly,Sukar,Mustoe,Windass,Lees,Harker,Liddle, Moke, four forwards Felix,Salkeld,Curry, Rivers haven't scored and our joint top scorer on three is Hatfield which tells us how Hazel and Nelson are doing.
Confidence, injuries, sackings or just moving on of staff, formations or lack of it, established players not showing passion commitment the new management have just not stabilized the club let alone turned it around. I just hope Gowling and Rose in the next few weeks step aside and DJ can still get hold of who was second or third choice in the interview process. Otherwise the thought of relegation is our worse scenario since playoff seatgate under MG.

[Spyman]

There is a straightforward means of holding them to account if you think they're doing a bad job. The DFCSG need to endorse the DFC Board, so if there's a strong feeling amongst the members of the DFCSG that the Board needs shaking up, then they have the power to enact that.

[Darlofan97]

I don't believe there is any logical or rational Darlo fan that would want to see "heads roll" at Board level.

The Board (both SG & FC) all bring their valuable skills to the club in their own right. You look at these individuals with the work they have done for the football club, and in their own profession, and we are very lucky to have them, especially on an unpaid basis.

Whilst they will be feeling immense pressure at the moment, I do hope that they aren't taking the criticism/pressure too personally because, like I say, no logical or rational Darlo fan would actually want them to leave.

For me, its not about "accountability", as that indicates somebody (or a collective) needs to take the rap, it's just about how we as a football club can learn from this situation and move together stronger as a result. (I have previously called for accountability, but I was wrong for doing so).

Sadly, appointing Josh Gowling is having, and will continue to have (especially if he continues to get his own way), a turbulent impact on the club, even after he departs.

He is decimating the sustainable model of recruiting half-decent, local players, in favour of temporary loanees or players travelling from the Midlands. If he continues to do this further (which he wishes to do), we are going to have no squad left by the time he departs, or if we are relegated. Or both.

It will be a complete re-build job, far worse than we have ever seen before.

[DavidCurriesMullet]

"Confidence, injuries, sackings or just moving on of staff, formations or lack of it, established players not showing passion commitment the new management have just not stabilized the club let alone turned it around. I just hope Gowling and Rose in the next few weeks step aside and DJ can still get hold of who was second or third choice in the interview process. Otherwise the thought of relegation is our worse scenario since playoff seatgate under MG."

They are not going to step aside, and I cannot see them being sacked in the next couple of weeks. They will be given a reasonable shot at turning things around. As for people losing faith in him, let's be honest, a good few have never given him a chance to start with. Can't have helped his position with the players if they have always had the impression the fan's don't want him.

[Darlofan97]

"Confidence, injuries, sackings or just moving on of staff, formations or lack of it, established players not showing passion commitment the new management have just not stabilized the club let alone turned it around. I just hope Gowling and Rose in the next few weeks step aside and DJ can still get hold of who was second or third choice in the interview process. Otherwise the thought of relegation is our worse scenario since playoff seatgate under MG."

They are not going to step aside, and I cannot see them being sacked in the next couple of weeks. They will be given a reasonable shot at turning things around. As for people losing faith in him, let's be honest, a good few have never given him a chance to start with. Can't have helped his position with the players if they have always had the impression the fan's don't want him.

You are mistaking, "not giving him a chance to start with", with, "making a prediction based on years of past information, data, player turnover, comments etc".

As a fan, you can't/don't just watch a new manager be installed and blindly hope that things will improve. You look at past performance etc & make an initial judgement.

As for the players, Gowling lost some of them when he said, "they are my boys now" when appointed & then placed a third of the squad on the transfer list, some of which are experienced pros.

If you could write a handbook on what not to do as a football manager when you are appointed, the whole Taylor/Robson/Hannah/Felix/Barnes scenarios would be a case study on what not to.

Gowling doesn't like working with senior players. He signed kids at Hereford & the average age of his last Hereford side that faced us in late-2022 was just 23.

[Wiseacre]

"Confidence, injuries, sackings or just moving on of staff, formations or lack of it, established players not showing passion commitment the new management have just not stabilized the club let alone turned it around. I just hope Gowling and Rose in the next few weeks step aside and DJ can still get hold of who was second or third choice in the interview process. Otherwise the thought of relegation is our worse scenario since playoff seatgate under MG."

They are not going to step aside, and I cannot see them being sacked in the next couple of weeks. They will be given a reasonable shot at turning things around. As for people losing faith in him, let's be honest, a good few have never given him a chance to start with. Can't have helped his position with the players if they have always had the impression the fan's don't want him.

It's more likely that the players impression will be drawn from the results and performances the manager oversees. If they do feel people didn't want him they might be right. It's too soon to off load him and too late to save the season so the best thing might be to look for some positives - like the goal we worked against Spennymoor or the promise of some of the new faces - and take it as it comes without too much more rancour because it can damage the club over time. I do believe the board should be untouchable, otherwise things could go badly awry. They're not perfect - two dud managers out of three since the fiasco which saw Gray go, who shouldn't really be blamed for 'seatgate' - but they've done far more good than not and we need stability more than ever now. Remember they could always give it up and walk away if things get acrimonious and personal. My sympathies are very much with DJ and the board because Gowling will have to go at some point and they will be expected to pull something out of the hat, preferably not the candidates who were felt to be unappointable last time round.

[Spyman]

I don't believe there is any logical or rational Darlo fan that would want to see "heads roll" at Board level.

The Board (both SG & FC) all bring their valuable skills to the club in their own right. You look at these individuals with the work they have done for the football club, and in their own profession, and we are very lucky to have them, especially on an unpaid basis.

Whilst they will be feeling immense pressure at the moment, I do hope that they aren't taking the criticism/pressure too personally because, like I say, no logical or rational Darlo fan would actually want them to leave.

For me, its not about "accountability", as that indicates somebody (or a collective) needs to take the rap, it's just about how we as a football club can learn from this situation and move together stronger as a result. (I have previously called for accountability, but I was wrong for doing so).

Sadly, appointing Josh Gowling is having, and will continue to have (especially if he continues to get his own way), a turbulent impact on the club, even after he departs.

He is decimating the sustainable model of recruiting half-decent, local players, in favour of temporary loanees or players travelling from the Midlands. If he continues to do this further (which he wishes to do), we are going to have no squad left by the time he departs, or if we are relegated. Or both.

It will be a complete re-build job, far worse than we have ever seen before.

Agree in the most part with this, particaulrly the first section, and to extent the latter part on the recruitment model that we seem to be employing (although I think there's probably a bit more to it).

One thing I will sy on your following post:

"You are mistaking, "not giving him a chance to start with", with, "making a prediction based on years of past information, data, player turnover, comments etc".

As a fan, you can't/don't just watch a new manager be installed and blindly hope that things will improve. You look at past performance etc & make an initial judgement."

Of course you can choose to form your opinion based on the factors you've described - but you can choose to keep that opinion to yourself. There's absolutely nothing to be gained other than being able to say "told you so" by planting these seeds in peoples minds before the guy has even got his foot in the door. As we know, people talk, stuff spreads, and players might start picking up on this stuff and forming opinions based on whats been said online, rather than what they experience.

That might not have happened in this case, but it could, and there's nothing positive that can come from it as far as I can see.

[Darlofan97]

This is a forum though, where you are permitted to discuss matters relating to the football club. Good & bad.

If Gowling started to pick up results/managed the players correctly, then my (or anybody else's) comments would have been redundant. Football is full of terrible opinions writing individuals off.

To suggest that a few comments that were made upon his appointment casting doubt on his suitability to the role has now influenced matters on the pitch is a far stretch.