Peterborough V Darlington

[bga]

He only played 360 minutes this season.

Why are you wanting to base your opinion on a really small data-sample size, completely disregarding both the eye-test & the data over a much more prolonged period?

What were his stats from January onwards, out of interest? That should be a reasonable sample size.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Dropped off with a couple of goals, but his assists & creativity stayed the same.

How many assists and chances created?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

4 assists pre-January & 4 assists post-January.

His xG per match also increased post-January, from 0.16 to 0.22.

It was 13 G/A he got in 22/23, not 15 as I stated earlier.

Like I said, a huge mistake letting him go.

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

Are you sure you are not Gowling's analyst in disguise!

[Darlofan97]

What were his stats from January onwards, out of interest? That should be a reasonable sample size.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Dropped off with a couple of goals, but his assists & creativity stayed the same.

How many assists and chances created?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

4 assists pre-January & 4 assists post-January.

His xG per match also increased post-January, from 0.16 to 0.22.

It was 13 G/A he got in 22/23, not 15 as I stated earlier.

Like I said, a huge mistake letting him go.

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

Are you sure you are not Gowling's analyst in disguise!

Nope. If I was, I'd have told him to keep Tommy in goal & keep Barnes!

[JE93]

Dropped off with a couple of goals, but his assists & creativity stayed the same.

How many assists and chances created?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

4 assists pre-January & 4 assists post-January.

His xG per match also increased post-January, from 0.16 to 0.22.

It was 13 G/A he got in 22/23, not 15 as I stated earlier.

Like I said, a huge mistake letting him go.

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

Are you sure you are not Gowling's analyst in disguise!

Nope. If I was, I'd have told him to keep Tommy in goal & keep Barnes!

Agreed, I wouldn't have dropped TT.

Personally I think it's harsh to say Barnes wasn't replaced. To my eyes, Ngandu is a very similar player. Whether he will be as good over a period of time is open to debate but to say he wasn't replaced, I think is inaccurate.

I agree we haven't replaced Felix directly. Although in reality, I think his spot is actually Salkelds best position and we haven't seen him there all that much. On Felix, I don't think it's acceptable from a squad perspective he was only training once a week (even if this was agreed with him by the previous regime), TW was berated for not getting players in for training consistently. It was telling in the summer, we supposedly had an option on Felix but it wasn't activated, obviously because he wanted to renegotiate the terms.

For me there is the spine of something we can work with forming, but the big problem is the CF spot. Hazel doesn't seem to play well as a lone striker, and none of our options seem to be able to hold the ball up front, and give us a chance to play slightly differently and put the ball into the box. This was one of Armstrongs biggest failures over the summer, we saw how effective we were first half of last season when we had a target man in form and he doesnt bring one in over the summer. Unfortunately, as we found out in January last season finding a decent target man mid season is like looking for hens teeth. Cant help but looking at Scunthorpe loaning out both Marcus Carver and Richie Bennet and thinking one of them could do a job and make us harder to play against. Certainly look on with envy at Whitby who seem to have two good target men forwards in Greaves and Simpson.

------------------------ Taylor ----------------------
Griffiths --- Lawlor - Burton --- Hedley
---------------- Lindley - Platt ------------------
Salkeld --------- Hatfield -------- Ngandu
--------------------- xxxxxxx ----------------------

Maybe Hazel can work in the above if he's just told to play on the shoulder of the last defender as we've all seen what he can do when he's moving towards goal, it's his build up and hold up play which has been severely lacking.

[Spyman]

4 assists pre-January & 4 assists post-January.

His xG per match also increased post-January, from 0.16 to 0.22.

It was 13 G/A he got in 22/23, not 15 as I stated earlier.

Like I said, a huge mistake letting him go.

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

Thanks

So (correct me if I've misinterpreted) he had 8 assists over the season, 4 of these in the "good" half of the season and 4 in the "bad". He scored 5 goals, 3 in the "good" and 2 in the "bad".

That does suggest that he was fairly consistent in his output regardless of the form or quality of the players around him. Knowing how many games he played over each period would clarify that.

That said, I wouldn't say those figures are outstanding and 5 goals scored over a season wouldn't put him as a leading figure in a list of "saviours" similar to the one you put together for other seasons where we've struggled (I'm excluding assists for consistency with your lists, as its kind of double-counting). I appreciate scoring goals isn't the primary role of a winger, but we've had wingers in the past who have scored more than 5 goals.

What is clear to me, and I touched on earlier in this thread, is that Gowling obviously came in with a plan to play 5-3-2 (or 3-5-2) - a formation that doesn't accomodate traditional wingers. Whether that was led by the circumstances around Felix not fitting into his training plans, or whether his intention was always to go without wingers, Gowling decided at some point that he didn't need several wingers in his squad and needed more players in other areas, which again you can see reflected in his early recruitment of wing-backs, central defenders and central midfielders. That would be why a couple of wingers were moved on and not directly replaced - no point using up budget on players that don't fit the system.

Now he's seemingly decided that 4 at the back is the way forward, at least in the short term, we're caught short in those wide areas and having to use players like Hazel out of position. I would hope that if Gowling now sees this formation as more effective, he'll try to recruit players who will fill those positions.

[DavidCurriesMullet]

Think last season Lambert had 16 goals and 14 assists - we had an exceptional talent for the level last season, and Beck and Hazel would have looked a lot less impressive without him, as showed in Hazel's case post January.

To be fair, think Hazel might have had more assists than both Jack and Felix, as well as his goals, last season.

[Spyman]

Think last season Lambert had 16 goals and 14 assists - we had an exceptional talent for the level last season, and Beck and Hazel would have looked a lot less impressive without him, as showed in Hazel's case post January.

To be fair, think Hazel might have had more assists than both Jack and Felix, as well as his goals, last season.

And he wracked up those numbers despite being injured for a long period over the second half of the season. It would've been interesting to see if his assists remained that high once Beck left, as I'd imagine a good chunk of that 14 was setting up Beck.

[Yarblockos]

If Hazel needs a high quality target man to play alongside him, as people keep suggesting, and given that we are very unlikely to find such a player at this stage of the season, then sticking with Hazel up front seems a guarantee of relegation. In fact, if we stick with Hazel/Salkeld/Nelson up front we are going down.

[QUAKERMAN2]

If Hazel needs a high quality target man to play alongside him, as people keep suggesting, and given that we are very unlikely to find such a player at this stage of the season, then sticking with Hazel up front seems a guarantee of relegation. In fact, if we stick with Hazel/Salkeld/Nelson up front we are going down.

Best option imo is Hazell and Nelson up front with Salkeld playing wide right and Nkondu wide left, Platt and Hatfield CM and Rowe/Griffiths,Lawlor,Burton and Sukar at the back.
No brainer for me.

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[beatroute66]

Kaine very nearly left in the summer, as I understand it. Josh arrived and Kaine met with him to say the distance/travel wasn't working for him anymore (as Josh told us all in an interview with Ray), so he moved on to a local club (to him).

As such, to imply we pushed him out the door isn't reflective of how I see it.

[CrazyDarlo]

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/kaine-f ... ugh-sports

“He felt that he couldn’t continue doing that commute”

“We don’t want anyone here who’s not happy”

The lad didn’t want to be here, why can’t some people accept that?

[theoriginalfatcat]

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

While you're at it can you offer up data on; the players will to win/commitment/mental attitude in times of adversity/understanding and acting on given instructions - that sort of thing.

[Yarblockos]

Best option imo is Hazell and Nelson up front with Salkeld playing wide right and Nkondu wide left, Platt and Hatfield CM and Rowe/Griffiths,Lawlor,Burton and Sukar at the back.
No brainer for me.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

Playing Hazel and Nelson up front will get us relegated.

[Spyman]

I think its fairly clear that we need to add a centre forward who is either a cast-iron guarantee of goals, or can be the foil that Hazel needs to get him scoring again. Nelson isn't that player, and Salkeld isn't that player (although may be able to contribute from a different position).

Hazel clearly isn't a player who can create on his own. He's not a winger either, but given the right service he is an efective goalscorer. Last season Beck and Lambert (and I'm sure some others, but mostly those two) brought out the best in him after a bit of a slow start.

The chances of finding players of Beck & Lambert's quality at this stage are minimal but if we can get someone in who can do something similar while keeping it tighter at the back, then 15 goals for Hazel might be enough to drag us clear.

[QUAKERMAN2]

Best option imo is Hazell and Nelson up front with Salkeld playing wide right and Nkondu wide left, Platt and Hatfield CM and Rowe/Griffiths,Lawlor,Burton and Sukar at the back.
No brainer for me.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

Playing Hazel and Nelson up front will get us relegated.

Worth trying imo especially with 2 wide men.Nothing to lose.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

[Spyman]

Best option imo is Hazell and Nelson up front with Salkeld playing wide right and Nkondu wide left, Platt and Hatfield CM and Rowe/Griffiths,Lawlor,Burton and Sukar at the back.
No brainer for me.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

Playing Hazel and Nelson up front will get us relegated.

Worth trying imo especially with 2 wide men.Nothing to lose.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

Problem is, we don't currently have two wide men do we? We have Rivers and then Nkondu and Salkeld who I don't believe are really wingers are they?

So do we prioritise recruiting a winger or two, or do we prioritise a centre forward?

[Quakers2009]

4 assists pre-January & 4 assists post-January.

His xG per match also increased post-January, from 0.16 to 0.22.

It was 13 G/A he got in 22/23, not 15 as I stated earlier.

Like I said, a huge mistake letting him go.

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

Thanks

So (correct me if I've misinterpreted) he had 8 assists over the season, 4 of these in the "good" half of the season and 4 in the "bad". He scored 5 goals, 3 in the "good" and 2 in the "bad".

That does suggest that he was fairly consistent in his output regardless of the form or quality of the players around him. Knowing how many games he played over each period would clarify that.

That said, I wouldn't say those figures are outstanding and 5 goals scored over a season wouldn't put him as a leading figure in a list of "saviours" similar to the one you put together for other seasons where we've struggled (I'm excluding assists for consistency with your lists, as its kind of double-counting). I appreciate scoring goals isn't the primary role of a winger, but we've had wingers in the past who have scored more than 5 goals.

What is clear to me, and I touched on earlier in this thread, is that Gowling obviously came in with a plan to play 5-3-2 (or 3-5-2) - a formation that doesn't accomodate traditional wingers. Whether that was led by the circumstances around Felix not fitting into his training plans, or whether his intention was always to go without wingers, Gowling decided at some point that he didn't need several wingers in his squad and needed more players in other areas, which again you can see reflected in his early recruitment of wing-backs, central defenders and central midfielders. That would be why a couple of wingers were moved on and not directly replaced - no point using up budget on players that don't fit the system.

Now he's seemingly decided that 4 at the back is the way forward, at least in the short term, we're caught short in those wide areas and having to use players like Hazel out of position. I would hope that if Gowling now sees this formation as more effective, he'll try to recruit players who will fill those positions.

Gowling has wasted time (& money) trying to implement a formation he rarely used at Hereford.

It's also a formation we have rarely used pre-appointment, which JG would have known having analysed our games. Only now has he acknowledged that the players we have are more suited to a back four.

[CrazyDarlo]

Best option imo is Hazell and Nelson up front with Salkeld playing wide right and Nkondu wide left, Platt and Hatfield CM and Rowe/Griffiths,Lawlor,Burton and Sukar at the back.
No brainer for me.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

Playing Hazel and Nelson up front will get us relegated.

Worth trying imo especially with 2 wide men.Nothing to lose.

Sent from my SM-A145R using Tapatalk

Problem is, we don't currently have two wide men do we? We have Rivers and then Nkondu and Salkeld who I don't believe are really wingers are they?

So do we prioritise recruiting a winger or two, or do we prioritise a centre forward?

As Armstrong decided we didn’t a target man or any creative players, both areas need major surgery unfortunately. I don’t see how the season turns around without it. A target man should be the top priority as that will give us something to build from, whether we can actually find that type of player mid season is another question.

[Spyman]

I think he probably expected Salkeld to be that creative player in the mould of Lambert.

[LoidLucan]

There's probably more than a few big target men like Jacob Blyth knocking around who are not doing anything at the moment. Trouble is while their price is right, they can't score goals, don't hold the ball up very well, are crap in the air and useless on the deck.

[loan_star]

There's probably more than a few big target men like Jacob Blyth knocking around who are not doing anything at the moment. Trouble is while their price is right, they can't score goals, don't hold the ball up very well, are crap in the air and useless on the deck.

Cassidy would be a good foil for Hazel. Yes his goal scoring record was rubbish but his hold up play was decent enough.
Or maybe try to tempt Boyes from Marske. Even Tom Denton would do the job, wasted at Guisley.

[CrazyDarlo]

I think he probably expected Salkeld to be that creative player in the mould of Lambert.

Probably and I do like Salkeld but I’ve not seen much evidence to suggest he’s going to get us a big number of goals/ assists before the end of the season.

[Darlofan97]

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/kaine-f ... ugh-sports

“He felt that he couldn’t continue doing that commute”

“We don’t want anyone here who’s not happy”

The lad didn’t want to be here, why can’t some people accept that?

Because the article - obviously - doesn't add context as to what caused Felix no longer wanting to commute, which was how Gowling managed the situation.

[Darlofan97]

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

While you're at it can you offer up data on; the players will to win/commitment/mental attitude in times of adversity/understanding and acting on given instructions - that sort of thing.

What are you waffling on about?

[Darlofan97]

How many assists and chances created?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

4 assists pre-January & 4 assists post-January.

His xG per match also increased post-January, from 0.16 to 0.22.

It was 13 G/A he got in 22/23, not 15 as I stated earlier.

Like I said, a huge mistake letting him go.

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

Are you sure you are not Gowling's analyst in disguise!

Nope. If I was, I'd have told him to keep Tommy in goal & keep Barnes!

Agreed, I wouldn't have dropped TT.

Personally I think it's harsh to say Barnes wasn't replaced. To my eyes, Ngandu is a very similar player. Whether he will be as good over a period of time is open to debate but to say he wasn't replaced, I think is inaccurate.

I agree we haven't replaced Felix directly. Although in reality, I think his spot is actually Salkelds best position and we haven't seen him there all that much. On Felix, I don't think it's acceptable from a squad perspective he was only training once a week (even if this was agreed with him by the previous regime), TW was berated for not getting players in for training consistently. It was telling in the summer, we supposedly had an option on Felix but it wasn't activated, obviously because he wanted to renegotiate the terms.

For me there is the spine of something we can work with forming, but the big problem is the CF spot. Hazel doesn't seem to play well as a lone striker, and none of our options seem to be able to hold the ball up front, and give us a chance to play slightly differently and put the ball into the box. This was one of Armstrongs biggest failures over the summer, we saw how effective we were first half of last season when we had a target man in form and he doesnt bring one in over the summer. Unfortunately, as we found out in January last season finding a decent target man mid season is like looking for hens teeth. Cant help but looking at Scunthorpe loaning out both Marcus Carver and Richie Bennet and thinking one of them could do a job and make us harder to play against. Certainly look on with envy at Whitby who seem to have two good target men forwards in Greaves and Simpson.

------------------------ Taylor ----------------------
Griffiths --- Lawlor - Burton --- Hedley
---------------- Lindley - Platt ------------------
Salkeld --------- Hatfield -------- Ngandu
--------------------- xxxxxxx ----------------------

Maybe Hazel can work in the above if he's just told to play on the shoulder of the last defender as we've all seen what he can do when he's moving towards goal, it's his build up and hold up play which has been severely lacking.

I agree with a lot of what you said.

Gowling has signed 3 decent players for us: Burton, Lindley & Ngandu.

If you added that to what we already had, in a good system, you get a very decent looking starting 11:

Taylor

Griffiths (or Rowe)
Lawlor
Burton
Hedley

Hatfield
Platt
Liddle

Felix (or Barnes)
Hazel
Ngandu

Instead we have seen about another 6 players come in on top plus a system change.

It didn't/never needed the radical changes we have witnessed (such as the new GK & CB), which has ultimately led him to now coming under huge pressure.

It is still salvageable, though. Just.

[CrazyDarlo]

4 assists pre-January & 4 assists post-January.

His xG per match also increased post-January, from 0.16 to 0.22.

It was 13 G/A he got in 22/23, not 15 as I stated earlier.

Like I said, a huge mistake letting him go.

If I get time, I'll go through his Expected Assists which looks at chances created per 90, pre & post Jan.

Are you sure you are not Gowling's analyst in disguise!

Nope. If I was, I'd have told him to keep Tommy in goal & keep Barnes!

Agreed, I wouldn't have dropped TT.

Personally I think it's harsh to say Barnes wasn't replaced. To my eyes, Ngandu is a very similar player. Whether he will be as good over a period of time is open to debate but to say he wasn't replaced, I think is inaccurate.

I agree we haven't replaced Felix directly. Although in reality, I think his spot is actually Salkelds best position and we haven't seen him there all that much. On Felix, I don't think it's acceptable from a squad perspective he was only training once a week (even if this was agreed with him by the previous regime), TW was berated for not getting players in for training consistently. It was telling in the summer, we supposedly had an option on Felix but it wasn't activated, obviously because he wanted to renegotiate the terms.

For me there is the spine of something we can work with forming, but the big problem is the CF spot. Hazel doesn't seem to play well as a lone striker, and none of our options seem to be able to hold the ball up front, and give us a chance to play slightly differently and put the ball into the box. This was one of Armstrongs biggest failures over the summer, we saw how effective we were first half of last season when we had a target man in form and he doesnt bring one in over the summer. Unfortunately, as we found out in January last season finding a decent target man mid season is like looking for hens teeth. Cant help but looking at Scunthorpe loaning out both Marcus Carver and Richie Bennet and thinking one of them could do a job and make us harder to play against. Certainly look on with envy at Whitby who seem to have two good target men forwards in Greaves and Simpson.

------------------------ Taylor ----------------------
Griffiths --- Lawlor - Burton --- Hedley
---------------- Lindley - Platt ------------------
Salkeld --------- Hatfield -------- Ngandu
--------------------- xxxxxxx ----------------------

Maybe Hazel can work in the above if he's just told to play on the shoulder of the last defender as we've all seen what he can do when he's moving towards goal, it's his build up and hold up play which has been severely lacking.

I agree with a lot of what you said.

Gowling has signed 3 decent players for us: Burton, Lindley & Ngandu.

If you added that to what we already had, in a good system, you get a very decent looking starting 11:

Taylor

Griffiths (or Rowe)
Lawlor
Burton
Hedley

Hatfield
Platt
Liddle

Felix (or Barnes)
Hazel
Ngandu

Instead we have seen about another 6 players come in on top plus a system change.

It didn't/never needed the radical changes we have witnessed (such as the new GK & CB), which has ultimately led him to now coming under huge pressure.

It is still salvageable, though. Just.

Solid looking team, but it won’t score enough goals.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

People need to start talking about the obvious....which is:

1) The decision to sell Kaine Felix

2) Opting against extending Finlay Barnes' loan

3) The decision to replace neither.

Gowling has now finally seen the light & ditched 3/5 at the back, the problem being we now have a squad stacked with full/wing-backs, when priority should have been ensuring Felix & Barnes stayed, or, replacing them like for like.

Rivers is the only winger in the squad. Salkeld can play right-wing, but he is our make-shift centre-forward!

This is why I cannot be too critical of Hazel for last night's performance; he is playing right-wing!

It's ridiculous.

Even if we had persisted with 5 at the back we could have played 2 strikers still, in a 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation but have never done so.

5-4-1 against the s*** that is Gloucester City had me worried from day 1.

Why can't we just try Nelson and Hazel up top as a striking pair, for 2 or 3 matches? Too obvious?

[CrazyDarlo]

People need to start talking about the obvious....which is:

1) The decision to sell Kaine Felix

2) Opting against extending Finlay Barnes' loan

3) The decision to replace neither.

Gowling has now finally seen the light & ditched 3/5 at the back, the problem being we now have a squad stacked with full/wing-backs, when priority should have been ensuring Felix & Barnes stayed, or, replacing them like for like.

Rivers is the only winger in the squad. Salkeld can play right-wing, but he is our make-shift centre-forward!

This is why I cannot be too critical of Hazel for last night's performance; he is playing right-wing!

It's ridiculous.

Even if we had persisted with 5 at the back we could have played 2 strikers still, in a 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation but have never done so.

5-4-1 against the s*** that is Gloucester City had me worried from day 1.

Why can't we just try Nelson and Hazel up top as a striking pair, for 2 or 3 matches? Too obvious?

We have done!! We tried it against Kings Lynn, against Scunthorpe and on numerous occasions last season. The forwards at the club will not get us out of trouble.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

There's probably more than a few big target men like Jacob Blyth knocking around who are not doing anything at the moment. Trouble is while their price is right, they can't score goals, don't hold the ball up very well, are crap in the air and useless on the deck.

Cassidy would be a good foil for Hazel.

Come on man.

Cassidy is not the answer.

Boyes I'd take a chance on but I'm pretty sure we'll have been interested in him before so the fact he isn't here probably tells us he has no interest. And he's getting on a bit now.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

People need to start talking about the obvious....which is:

1) The decision to sell Kaine Felix

2) Opting against extending Finlay Barnes' loan

3) The decision to replace neither.

Gowling has now finally seen the light & ditched 3/5 at the back, the problem being we now have a squad stacked with full/wing-backs, when priority should have been ensuring Felix & Barnes stayed, or, replacing them like for like.

Rivers is the only winger in the squad. Salkeld can play right-wing, but he is our make-shift centre-forward!

This is why I cannot be too critical of Hazel for last night's performance; he is playing right-wing!

It's ridiculous.

Even if we had persisted with 5 at the back we could have played 2 strikers still, in a 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation but have never done so.

5-4-1 against the s*** that is Gloucester City had me worried from day 1.

Why can't we just try Nelson and Hazel up top as a striking pair, for 2 or 3 matches? Too obvious?

We have done!! We tried it against Kings Lynn, against Scunthorpe and on numerous occasions last season. The forwards at the club will not get us out of trouble.

I don't recall us starting AN and JH together against King's Lynn? If so, were they actually 2 forwards or some bastardised version of a sort f forward line?

Scunthorpe was under AA not JG and last season is now irrelevant.

[Yarblockos]

People need to start talking about the obvious....which is:

1) The decision to sell Kaine Felix

2) Opting against extending Finlay Barnes' loan

3) The decision to replace neither.

Gowling has now finally seen the light & ditched 3/5 at the back, the problem being we now have a squad stacked with full/wing-backs, when priority should have been ensuring Felix & Barnes stayed, or, replacing them like for like.

Rivers is the only winger in the squad. Salkeld can play right-wing, but he is our make-shift centre-forward!

This is why I cannot be too critical of Hazel for last night's performance; he is playing right-wing!

It's ridiculous.

Even if we had persisted with 5 at the back we could have played 2 strikers still, in a 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation but have never done so.

5-4-1 against the s*** that is Gloucester City had me worried from day 1.

Why can't we just try Nelson and Hazel up top as a striking pair, for 2 or 3 matches? Too obvious?

We have done!! We tried it against Kings Lynn, against Scunthorpe and on numerous occasions last season. The forwards at the club will not get us out of trouble.

I don't recall us starting AN and JH together against King's Lynn? If so, were they actually 2 forwards or some bastardised version of a sort f forward line?

Scunthorpe was under AA not JG and last season is now irrelevant.

We started AN and JH together against the mighty Bishop's Stortford and lost 1-0. Might not of being a strict two up front, but I've not seen any evidence that those two playing together will be enough to keep us up.