Gowling MUST go!

[Quakers2009]

I fully accept that it was a shocking result, but I don’t think Josh should go, because there have been some green shoots of recovery in recent games, and to start again for the third time this season, when we are only in November would be daft.
Everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong last night. Early goal conceded and man sent off inside 5 minutes, 2 players injured in the first half, an own goal and a penalty conceded in the second half as well. None of that excuses the defeat, but it does help to explain the magnitude of it.
There were some encouraging signs at Farsley and again against Chester that the tide was beginning to turn and certainly no lack of effort or commitment from the players in those two games. Last night was unacceptable and embarrassing, but we need to keep calm and carry on.
Personally I am not too bothered about Saturday’s game, I would be focused on the two home league games next week. Against Scunthorpe we may as well give some game time to the likes off Lees ,Sukar, Mustoe, Whinfield, Moke, Harker and Simms, and give some of the other players a rest. With a growing injury list and Nelson facing a suspension we need to have our strongest team available for Warrington and Rushall. I still believe if we can get 4 or more points from those 2 games we can start looking up the table and we will have a platform to build on for the rest of the season.

I agree with this.

The nature of last nights result is obviously beyond disappointing, but I'd have bitten your hand off for 3 points from Chester and Chorley, and we've got 3 points. Probably 3 more than any of us expected.

Does the way we capitulated last night point to a deeper problem? Quite possibly, but it might not - after all, playing most of the game with 10 men was always going to make life harder than it should'v ebeen. Teams get battered from time to time, it doesn't condemn them to relegation. We made a very promising signing yesterday and last night's result doesn't change that. The next couple of games do look a little "easier" and if we can pick up another 3 points from those two and then get Asante into the side then we won't be too far adrift.

Teams are not battered 8-0 from time-to-time, not even down to ten men. I'm not buying into this whole 'everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong' mantra.

We were 0-1 down and being ragged about even before we went down to ten due to Nelson's stupidity.

Lawlor was replaced by an equally capable centre-half, & Rivers replaced by one of JGs signings. The OG may have been a fluke, but that made it 0-7 (SEVEN). We had Platt sat on the bench, a stopper of a defensive-midfielder, and that's where we left him. The penalty - it was arguably DOGSO and could have been another red.

I have never watched a game of football where the opposition players & referee took pity on us until last night. It's probably worth mentioning that Chorley could have had another penalty for Burton's hand-ball in the second-half & Moke should have been sent off for two late challenges - the referee didn't caution him on either.

What was evident was a complete lack of work-rate, desire and discipline from the players - some of them had gave up and went into hiding. That coupled with zero game-management from JG to damage limitate the result equaled disaster.

That was hands-down the worst performance over the 100s of DFC games I have watched, and it took Gowling 14 seconds to laugh in his PMI. We had zero shots on target and sustained possession in their half for about four minutes of the game - and that's being kind. Every shiite team from the Football League downwards can look good in spells, we won at least eight league games in 2009/2010 FFS - a couple of flukey goals such as the second against Farsley and the first against Chester doesn't change my outlook.

& for those crying for Sukar, Lees & Mustoe, Gowling doesn't like managing senior players - he's already fallen out with Sukar, Mustoe has been frozen out, Hazel is outgoing, and Lees has been offered to other clubs. Harker is also a poster-boy for the Academy & Winfield isn't ready for NLN football.

And before anyone says 'well, well, Asante is 31' needs to understand we have splashed the cash & have no other choice.

The board has made the wrong appointment, they agreed to let go of AA/DH with no plan, turned down managers with successful NLN experience, and paired two coaches together that haven't worked together before in this capacity - it's Asante or bust.

[spen666]

I'm only guessing but I don't think it will cost a lot to get rid of JG - I think he will be on a monthly contract as we are still paying for AA - which is one of the reasons why he was given the job in the first place - it was his opportunity to impress while we pay the remainder of AA's contract. The issue is how to we fund a replacement who will accept those terms. Surely we need a firefighter in now, contract until the end of the season - with the objective of keeping us up!

Sounds like a call for Sam Allardyce

[eddie-rowles]

I'm going to get pillared for this but, as bad as last night was, I don't think that result in isolation is enough to sack him.

We have taken 2 wins recently and looked decent against Chester in the first half before they figured us out.

We're battling at the bottom so we're going to lose games and winning half of our games would be enough to stay up given Farsley stayed up with 50 points last year. We've got 28 games left and if we averaged 1.5 points from those we'd add 42 to the 14 we already have to give us 56 overall.

If we keep picking up wins every other game, as much as it pains to say it, I can live with the occasional battering from a strong team. However, if we have a run of 3-4 games without a win JG is finished.

a 50% win ratio just to stay up from now or remain unbeaten at home , do you know how mad that sounds when we had to wait nine months between two home wins, even i was optimistic but I tell you even Pep guardiola would struggle to achieve that sort of record

[Beano]

I'm going to get pillared for this but, as bad as last night was, I don't think that result in isolation is enough to sack him.

We have taken 2 wins recently and looked decent against Chester in the first half before they figured us out.

We're battling at the bottom so we're going to lose games and winning half of our games would be enough to stay up given Farsley stayed up with 50 points last year. We've got 28 games left and if we averaged 1.5 points from those we'd add 42 to the 14 we already have to give us 56 overall.

If we keep picking up wins every other game, as much as it pains to say it, I can live with the occasional battering from a strong team. However, if we have a run of 3-4 games without a win JG is finished.

And therein lies the problem, he picks up a win now and again but we lose the games in between, including more potential batterings as you say.
The win gets him another 3 or 4 games which we lose 2 or 3 of before we sneak another win. Leaves even less time for a new man to put it right.

I do take your point entirely as this is a clear and obvious risk.

If I was making the decision, I'd give him 3 games, but in the meantime I would be making full contingency plans for a replacement if we haven't secured at least 3 more points.

Sadly, the obvious man, Adam Lakeland, has gone to one of our biggest relegation rivals.

[Spyman]

Teams are not battered 8-0 from time-to-time, not even down to ten men. I'm not buying into this whole 'everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong' mantra.

Southampton managed to lose league games 9-0 twice in consecutive seasons and weren't relegated in either season. It happens.

2 seasons ago Chorley beat Gloucester 9-0. Gloucester weren't relegated.

[bga]

Teams are not battered 8-0 from time-to-time, not even down to ten men. I'm not buying into this whole 'everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong' mantra.

Southampton managed to lose league games 9-0 twice in consecutive seasons and weren't relegated in either season. It happens.

2 seasons ago Chorley beat Gloucester 9-0. Gloucester weren't relegated.

Shame we didn't let that extra goal in then last night!

[The_Natural]

It's becoming clear that we've made a huge mistake with this appointment. There are alarming signs that there are major problems behind the scenes with organisation, spirit and leadership and that has been clear in most of the games, not just in last night's disastrous performance.

It is going to take something special to get out of this terrible situation with the club feeling like it's in disarray under JG. So much seems wrong and many fans don't think the manager is up to it.

We probably don't have the money for a third manager of the season after this disastrous appointment and I think most agree that relegation looks very likely.

Maybe the best solution, both financially and in terms of trying to inject something different and some unity, fight and spirit into it, would be to hand the reins back to Hatfield, Platt and Lawlor until the end of the season. Last time they steered us past a tricky Cup tie and were very unlucky with the defeat at Bishop's Stortford.

I honestly don't think we would have seen anything like last night's disastrous mess under them. It may well not work come the season's end but I think we might have a fighting chance. It may also have a unifying effect on players and fans because under JG the crowds will tumble.

It maybe isn't ideal but it could be a realistic and affordable way forward that's in the best interests of the club. I feel the longer this regime continues the more damage will be caused from a lot of perspectives. It's a big throw of the dice but, on balance, one worth taking.

Appreciate you are trying to think of the budget when thinking of a replacement, but having 3 blokes in charge doesn’t sound realistic, and you are really dressing up beating a team in the league below and losing to a god awful team in this league as some sign of hope.

Staying the course with Gowling seems the only feasible chance of getting out of this mess created by his predecessor

[Old Git]

I'm only guessing but I don't think it will cost a lot to get rid of JG - I think he will be on a monthly contract as we are still paying for AA - which is one of the reasons why he was given the job in the first place - it was his opportunity to impress while we pay the remainder of AA's contract. The issue is how to we fund a replacement who will accept those terms. Surely we need a firefighter in now, contract until the end of the season - with the objective of keeping us up!

Sounds like a call for Sam Allardyce

Ha Ha very funny. Perhaps Neil Warnock fancies another go at management. Sir Alex is still alive, I wonder…..?

[Quakers2009]

Teams are not battered 8-0 from time-to-time, not even down to ten men. I'm not buying into this whole 'everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong' mantra.

Southampton managed to lose league games 9-0 twice in consecutive seasons and weren't relegated in either season. It happens.

2 seasons ago Chorley beat Gloucester 9-0. Gloucester weren't relegated.

You've picked just two clubs from the previous two years who have been battered 9-0 - the Chorley result against Gloucester was a record-breaker for the NLN, by the way.

Last night wasn't one of those 'ah we were unlucky, it happens, everything went against us' results.

[Wiseacre]

I'm only guessing but I don't think it will cost a lot to get rid of JG - I think he will be on a monthly contract as we are still paying for AA - which is one of the reasons why he was given the job in the first place - it was his opportunity to impress while we pay the remainder of AA's contract. The issue is how to we fund a replacement who will accept those terms. Surely we need a firefighter in now, contract until the end of the season - with the objective of keeping us up!

Sounds like a call for Sam Allardyce

Ha Ha very funny. Perhaps Neil Warnock fancies another go at management. Sir Alex is still alive, I wonder…..?

Yes - maybe Frank Lampard fancies getting his hands dirty. There is another name of course; when I began posting here my first effort was an intemperate defense of Martin Gray, followed by unkind digs at Tommy Wright. The thing is I feel that history since then supports my view that the mutual fallings out were very bad for the club and we've gone backwards since, apart from some upturns in the league and welcome cup runs under AA. I think this new bloke is worse than Tommy - last nights outcome was more than a temporary aberration that 'can happen'. We were very lucky not to let in 5 or 6 at home to Spennymoor and Scunthorpe know how to turn us over already. The writing is on the wall, the club is in a terrible mess. However, sacking the manager won't stop the rot. There have been some green shoots but he needs help. So ... deep breath, why not build a bridge with Gray and see if he and Gowling could work together in a similar way to Terry Venables and Bryan Robson at 'Boro. I know it wouldn't be popular but the club have to try something soon.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Gray is most definitely not a "working together with" kind of guy.

[Darlofan97]

I'm going to get pillared for this but, as bad as last night was, I don't think that result in isolation is enough to sack him.

We have taken 2 wins recently and looked decent against Chester in the first half before they figured us out.

We're battling at the bottom so we're going to lose games and winning half of our games would be enough to stay up given Farsley stayed up with 50 points last year. We've got 28 games left and if we averaged 1.5 points from those we'd add 42 to the 14 we already have to give us 56 overall.

If we keep picking up wins every other game, as much as it pains to say it, I can live with the occasional battering from a strong team. However, if we have a run of 3-4 games without a win JG is finished.

And therein lies the problem, he picks up a win now and again but we lose the games in between, including more potential batterings as you say.
The win gets him another 3 or 4 games which we lose 2 or 3 of before we sneak another win. Leaves even less time for a new man to put it right.

I do take your point entirely as this is a clear and obvious risk.

If I was making the decision, I'd give him 3 games, but in the meantime I would be making full contingency plans for a replacement if we haven't secured at least 3 more points.

Sadly, the obvious man, Adam Lakeland, has gone to one of our biggest relegation rivals.

Lakeland achieved almost the same PPG as us in 21/22, despite spending a third less on player wages.

That is before you talk about how he did with Curzon last season, and this season up to his appointment.

A disaster he was not appointed.

[Quakers2009]

I think the club became too engrossed in the talk of Gowling becoming involved with the commercial & community aspect of the club that they forgot what would have stopped the rot - appointing a manager with a good track-record of winning games of football at this level.

[quakersam]

I think the club became too engrossed in the talk of Gowling becoming involved with the commercial & community aspect of the club that they forgot what would have stopped the rot - appointing a manager with a good track-record of winning games of football at this level.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. Too many have become too engrossed on the namby pamby community rubbish that few people actually care about (let’s be honest), and have forgotten about what the majority actually want, to go to the game with your mates on a Saturday afternoon and watch a team that play for one another and win football matches

[MB86DFC]

Telling people off.

Sorry I know what I'd do at work if someone 'told me off'.

"Bye"

Great way to prove my point. We want players with grit and fight, not ones who run away / hide when criticised or disciplined.

Nonsense. People perform when they have clarity, capability and motivation to do so.

If we assume the players have the capability.

The question is about providing clarity and then motivation - and that is understanding individual motivators - just because someone is not motivated by being told off and being told to "be better next time" says nothing about grit and fight.

Understand the individual motivators of a squad of approx 20 players in the 8 to 10 hours per week he can influence them? Whilst also analysing and communicating data patterns, working on shape, training, etc? Behave. The main thing you know nearly all sportspeople have is determined, competitive spirit. They have to in order to play at any reasonable level. Tap into this, highlight the failures, make them compete.

[lo36789]

Yes that doesn't have to be unleashed by a bollocking or just recounting failure.

Focus has to always be on what to do different next time to get a better outcome, and what we can adjust in order to make that outcome more likely.

Reality is Gowling will be analysing his own approach in a similar manner and I guess there is one thing he learnt repeatedly - where there are critical shortcomings in players understanding / suitability in playing a higher press.

If we had just shut up shop after the early goal, red card and injury we would have ended up with the same 0 points but would have learned nothing else.

[Darlofan97]

Yes that doesn't have to be unleashed by a bollocking or just recounting failure.

Focus has to always be on what to do different next time to get a better outcome, and what we can adjust in order to make that outcome more likely.

Reality is Gowling will be analysing his own approach in a similar manner and I guess there is one thing he learnt repeatedly - where there are critical shortcomings in players understanding / suitability in playing a higher press.

If we had just shut up shop after the early goal, red card and injury we would have ended up with the same 0 points but would have learned nothing else.

If Gowling doesn't already know that pressing high when down to 10 men, whilst already 3-0 down, away from home, is a bad idea then he shouldn't be a football manager.

[lo36789]

Depends what value he placed on keeping the score respectable - as I say he may have learned more about the players at his disposal from what happened than just putting everyone behind the ball under siege for 75 minutes.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Not for me Lo. Goal difference could be vital at the end of the season - not only that, a lot could have been gleaned from how well the players coped with keeping a tight ship.

[50 years]

Not for me either lo, think I would have a different view, think you learn more about the team if they can dig in and not capitulate, if they defended and still lost 8-0, then you would learn a lot. Still attacking and losing 8-0 gives you an excuse, just imo of course.

[lo36789]

I'm not saying I agree or even that it was intentional...but your biggest failures are nearly always your biggest opportunity to learn.

[Spyman]

Teams are not battered 8-0 from time-to-time, not even down to ten men. I'm not buying into this whole 'everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong' mantra.

Southampton managed to lose league games 9-0 twice in consecutive seasons and weren't relegated in either season. It happens.

2 seasons ago Chorley beat Gloucester 9-0. Gloucester weren't relegated.

You've picked just two clubs from the previous two years who have been battered 9-0 - the Chorley result against Gloucester was a record-breaker for the NLN, by the way.

Last night wasn't one of those 'ah we were unlucky, it happens, everything went against us' results.

Yeh, I picked a couple off the top of my head. If I look deeper, I'm sure there are plenty more examples.

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[Spyman]

I'm going to get pillared for this but, as bad as last night was, I don't think that result in isolation is enough to sack him.

We have taken 2 wins recently and looked decent against Chester in the first half before they figured us out.

We're battling at the bottom so we're going to lose games and winning half of our games would be enough to stay up given Farsley stayed up with 50 points last year. We've got 28 games left and if we averaged 1.5 points from those we'd add 42 to the 14 we already have to give us 56 overall.

If we keep picking up wins every other game, as much as it pains to say it, I can live with the occasional battering from a strong team. However, if we have a run of 3-4 games without a win JG is finished.

And therein lies the problem, he picks up a win now and again but we lose the games in between, including more potential batterings as you say.
The win gets him another 3 or 4 games which we lose 2 or 3 of before we sneak another win. Leaves even less time for a new man to put it right.

I do take your point entirely as this is a clear and obvious risk.

If I was making the decision, I'd give him 3 games, but in the meantime I would be making full contingency plans for a replacement if we haven't secured at least 3 more points.

Sadly, the obvious man, Adam Lakeland, has gone to one of our biggest relegation rivals.

Lakeland achieved almost the same PPG as us in 21/22, despite spending a third less on player wages.

That is before you talk about how he did with Curzon last season, and this season up to his appointment.

A disaster he was not appointed.

Does anyone know why he wasn't appointed?

I've heard (from posters on here) that he had a phone interview of some sort. Perhaps during that phone interview, rough terms were discussed such as "here's what sort of salary I expect" and he was ruled out on that basis?

I've done plenty of screening calls with candidates for roles I'm hiring for where that forms part of the conversation to make sure we're on the same page and nobody's time is being wasted. Seems feasible that this could've happened with Lakeland.

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[lo36789]

Teams are not battered 8-0 from time-to-time, not even down to ten men. I'm not buying into this whole 'everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong' mantra.

Southampton managed to lose league games 9-0 twice in consecutive seasons and weren't relegated in either season. It happens.

2 seasons ago Chorley beat Gloucester 9-0. Gloucester weren't relegated.

You've picked just two clubs from the previous two years who have been battered 9-0 - the Chorley result against Gloucester was a record-breaker for the NLN, by the way.

Last night wasn't one of those 'ah we were unlucky, it happens, everything went against us' results.

Yeh, I picked a couple off the top of my head. If I look deeper, I'm sure there are plenty more examples.

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Check out how Port Vale started this season...

[MB86DFC]

Depends what value he placed on keeping the score respectable - as I say he may have learned more about the players at his disposal from what happened than just putting everyone behind the ball under siege for 75 minutes.

No manager would ever consciously think, “I could keep this respectable but I’d much rather tarnish a club and my record with an absolute mullering”.

It looked more like rabbit in the headlights management rather than some 4D thinking to understand the deep emotional drivers of our players.

[lo36789]

I guess it maybe more he thought I could ask them to shut up shop, but how bad can it really get given the players shouldn't completely collapse.

Obviously the answer was very bad.

[LoidLucan]

Tuesday night became as bad as it did because JG wasn't tactically astute enough to help to prevent it from happening. And because a hallmark of his tenure has been a distinct lack of clear organisation, mental toughness, fight and spirit within the group he inherited/built upon. It's as simple as that.

We saw something similar unfolding against Tamworth when we had 11 men. At times against Spenny it was only skin of our teeth that it didn't head the same way before a little rally near the end. The same deficiencies meant that it was game over as soon as we went behind against a dreadful Peterboro Sports side.

[tdk1]

Tuesday night became as bad as it did because JG wasn't tactically astute enough to help to prevent it from happening. And because a hallmark of his tenure has been a distinct lack of clear organisation, mental toughness, fight and spirit within the group he inherited/built upon. It's as simple as that.

We saw something similar unfolding against Tamworth when we had 11 men. At times against Spenny it was only skin of our teeth that it didn't head the same way before a little rally near the end. The same deficiencies meant that it was game over as soon as we went behind against a dreadful Peterboro Sports side.

The Tamworth game was almost identical to the Buxton game though, suggesting that the issue isn't entirely down to the management.

[BM1883]

And therein lies the problem, he picks up a win now and again but we lose the games in between, including more potential batterings as you say.
The win gets him another 3 or 4 games which we lose 2 or 3 of before we sneak another win. Leaves even less time for a new man to put it right.

This is spot on. I share the same concern. JG isn't the right man for the job, should never have been appointed. 2 wins in 10 etc. The manner of how we lost on Tuesday night speaks volumes. The players don't want to play for him. Yes the players need to take a hard look at themselves but ultimately the buck stops with the manager.

My concern is he will pick up 1 win every 3 or 4 which will buy him more time. Similar to what OGS did at Man Utd a few seasons ago. A last minute equaliser etc, all stuff that papers over the cracks and saves the manager a little longer.

For me him being let go, sooner rather than later, is inevitable. It's all well and good DJ saying he will hold his hands up if we go down...

Why not be proactive now whilst we can still somewhat save it? Instead of being reactive when closely threatened with relegation.

The board need to act now.

[Quakers2009]

Teams are not battered 8-0 from time-to-time, not even down to ten men. I'm not buying into this whole 'everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong' mantra.

Southampton managed to lose league games 9-0 twice in consecutive seasons and weren't relegated in either season. It happens.

2 seasons ago Chorley beat Gloucester 9-0. Gloucester weren't relegated.

You've picked just two clubs from the previous two years who have been battered 9-0 - the Chorley result against Gloucester was a record-breaker for the NLN, by the way.

Last night wasn't one of those 'ah we were unlucky, it happens, everything went against us' results.

Yeh, I picked a couple off the top of my head. If I look deeper, I'm sure there are plenty more examples.

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Check out how Port Vale started this season...

Did either of you watch the game on Tuesday?