Rolling Euro 2012 thread

[Norm_D_Ploom]

Lahm aside who is top class,but the centre backs seemed tentative and the keeper is a dodge pot if you ask me.

Think you watch a different German team to me.

Hummels was man of the match and I thought was fantastic and has been all season at Dortmund, Boateng was dodgy but then had the envied task of facing Cristiano Ronaldo whilst playing out of position.

Don't know when you have seen Neuer as a dodge pot he was great at the last world cup, earnt himself the move to bayern from shalke in between and has kept that number 1 spot and I think he did well during the champions league (exception being Drogbas goal) and also was very imposing yesterday!

Agreed. Hummels and Badstuber were immense last night; as they are for their club teams. Neuer is prone to the odd error but at his best he is world class.

Also Jazz: I agree with a lot of what you say normally but your constant England bashing has just become tedious now. I reckon we're being underrated this year by most people as it seems it has become "fashionable" to be negative about England. Man for man, we are still one of the best teams in the tournament.

Nah, the midfield 3 were very good but the centre backs no more than ok , they got better I will give you that but average at best.

Denmarks centre backs, now they were class.

[Spyman]

I remember Neuer being dodgy at the World Cup, and being surprised he was so highly rated in domestic football. I've only seen him in major tournaments, champs league and the German cup final. He's never impressed me.

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[quakerray]

couldnt take spain to win as they were odds on so i took fabregas and iniesta to score anytime each one being 11/5. theres one up with fabregas scoring.

[Norm_D_Ploom]

I remember Neuer being dodgy at the World Cup, and being surprised he was so highly rated in domestic football. I've only seen him in major tournaments, champs league and the German cup final. He's never impressed me.

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The voice of reason, as usual.

[Norm_D_Ploom]

Only 27 hours until England stink the tournament out, eh norm?

What's your prediction for that shower?

Were gonna win it mate !

IF we can get through the 1st 15 or 20 mins without letting a goal in then I think we can keep it tight deny them space in front of our centre backs, force them wide and make them cross it which should be meat & drink for Terry & Lescott shouldn't it ?

The plan is obvioulsy to frustrate them and catch them on the break.

Did you see any of the French warm up games ?

I saw the 1st two but missed the last one, they have some good players and in Benzema a guy who could well be top scorer, BUT in both the games I saw the defence was exposed (Iceland & Serbia btw).
Mexes is an utter turkey, how that guy has made a living as a centre half is beyond me he cant defend, Evra is a busted flush I think we can get at him in particular if we can give Walcott or the Ox 25 at him in late the 2nd halfwith the game still there.

Do you honestly think we can be any worse than in the group games in South Africa ?

The Cahill injury is a shame as that back 5 looked very good, I think Lescott has had a decent season but his past games for England have been much better with Jagielka alongside him.

No I didn't watch any of the warm up games except the England ones.

From the highlights I've seen France look to be in a similar situation as us - nowhere near as bad as the south Africa disgrace but still far from competitive. There's no reason on paper we can't beat them, although I can't say I have the unwavering faith in terry or lescott (or any of our centre halfs tbh) that you do.

I think your optimism re. Walcott is misplaced too. He will do his run fast/fall over routine all day long and make all the right noises, but his final ball and finishing will be as horrific as ever. As for chamberlain - im not convinced yet. He strikes me as another one of the Walcott/wright Phillips/ lennon esque players that we get all excited about in this country but who never go on to do anything.

Think a draw is most likely, but if someone wins it's more likely to be England.

I would take 0-0 now mate to be honest I think France are a decent team and will go a long way.

Re the centre backs I would be happy with Terry/Cahill or Jags/Lescott but not Terry/Lescott. JT for all his faults is a decent reader of the game and actually a good centre back, but he has no pace, add Cahill who does have pace and is a decent reader of the game and they make a good pair, same with Jags & Lescott who played together for a while at Everton and usually did ok.

But Terry & Lescott as a pairing I agree with you to be honest that is a worry.

[Darlo_George_96]

I find it funny how there was all this stuff about the stadiums having really high security yet the Croatian fans have managed to get firecrackers in the ground

[DarloOnTheUp]

I remember Neuer being dodgy at the World Cup, and being surprised he was so highly rated in domestic football. I've only seen him in major tournaments, champs league and the German cup final. He's never impressed me.

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The voice of reason, as usual.

You mean because he agrees with your ill-informed opinion?

Neuer IS a quality goalkeeper, and Hummels and Badstuber ARE quality centre backs. And Hummels in particular was immense last night.

[DarloOnTheUp]

I would take 0-0 now mate to be honest I think France are a decent team and will go a long way.

Re the centre backs I would be happy with Terry/Cahill or Jags/Lescott but not Terry/Lescott. JT for all his faults is a decent reader of the game and actually a good centre back, but he has no pace, add Cahill who does have pace and is a decent reader of the game and they make a good pair, same with Jags & Lescott who played together for a while at Everton and usually did ok.

But Terry & Lescott as a pairing I agree with you to be honest that is a worry.

You're an idiot. Cahill is no faster than Lescott, and "Jags" is not much faster than Terry. You seem to know less about the game than a gerbil.

You'd be happy with Jagielka and Lescott but not Terry and Lescott?

[Spyman]

I remember Neuer being dodgy at the World Cup, and being surprised he was so highly rated in domestic football. I've only seen him in major tournaments, champs league and the German cup final. He's never impressed me.

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The voice of reason, as usual.

You mean because he agrees with your ill-informed opinion?

Neuer IS a quality goalkeeper, and Hummels and Badstuber ARE quality centre backs.

Like I say, I haven't seen enough of him to really form a proper opinion, but when I have seen him he's looked too error prone to really be called a quality keeper.

[DarloOnTheUp]

Nice diving header by Given.

[DarloOnTheUp]

Like I say, I haven't seen enough of him to really form a proper opinion, but when I have seen him he's looked too error prone to really be called a quality keeper.

Well I'll put it this way: he earned a move to Bayern for a reason, he cemented his place as their number one for a reason, and he is Germany's number one for a reason.

And with regards to Hummels: he was a key factor why Dortmund won the league. He is certainly not "average" at all, and he was nowhere near "average" last night.

[AndyPark]

Predictions for the England game tomorrow?

France 0-1 England.

[StevieMardenboro]

Good to see Steve Staunton offering his expertise as a pundit tonight . . currently slagging off the Spanish defence . . Mor Diop and Paddy Deane would rip them to shreds.

[StevieMardenboro]

I would take 0-0 now mate to be honest I think France are a decent team and will go a long way.

Re the centre backs I would be happy with Terry/Cahill or Jags/Lescott but not Terry/Lescott. JT for all his faults is a decent reader of the game and actually a good centre back, but he has no pace, add Cahill who does have pace and is a decent reader of the game and they make a good pair, same with Jags & Lescott who played together for a while at Everton and usually did ok.

But Terry & Lescott as a pairing I agree with you to be honest that is a worry.

You're an idiot. Cahill is no faster than Lescott, and "Jags" is not much faster than Terry. You seem to know less about the game than a gerbil.

You'd be happy with Jagielka and Lescott but not Terry and Lescott?

Jagielka is miles quicker than Terry!

[lo36789]

I too am concerned about the pace in our centre backs. Alternatives are equally slow in Phil Jones & Martin Kelly (incidentally on the day we got knocked out by Germany 2 years ago I made a list of the england team for World Cup in Brazil...it included amongst others Phil Jones, Martin Kelly & Andy Carroll - not bad going so far considering where those players were 2 years ago!)

Such a shame Richards was never called up in the first place really would have liked to have seen him playing alongside Terry in the centre of defence.

[davidcorks 40yard OG]

Predictions for the England game tomorrow?

France 0-1 England.

Put the crack pipe down young man


Not a chance in hell of us beating France ...A draw at best 3-0 defeat at worst..
Still think we can beat Sweden & sneak a draw with Ukraine .

[al_quaker]

We can win tonight. Keep it tight, nick a goal. We beat Spain like that, and there's no reason why we can't do it again. I don't think we will win, but I've been wrong plenty of times before!

[lo36789]

If Carroll plays I fancy us getting something really think he would properly confuse the french defence. Don't see Welbeck having the same effect can just see the game passing him by.

The only other way I can see us getting a goal is a Gerrard penalty possibly after Ashley Young goes down characteristically easy in the box...

The french defence are a little clumsy...get Young running at them and maybe just maybe we'll get a penalty.

[Big Tim]

My Team for tonight would be:

Hart

Johnson
Terry
Lescott
Cole

Jones
Parker

Milner
Gerrard
Young

Defoe/Welbeck

[OHDFC]

Like I say, I haven't seen enough of him to really form a proper opinion, but when I have seen him he's looked too error prone to really be called a quality keeper.

Well I'll put it this way: he earned a move to Bayern for a reason, he cemented his place as their number one for a reason, and he is Germany's number one for a reason.

And with regards to Hummels: he was a key factor why Dortmund won the league. He is certainly not "average" at all, and he was nowhere near "average" last night.

Neuer wasn't Germany's number one. After Robert Enke committed suicide, Rene Adler from Bayer Leverkusen got the nod over Manuel Neuer in goal for Germany and would in all likelihood have been number one in South Africa had he not had to pull out due to injury, which allowed Neuer to claim the number one position.

There is no doubt that Neuer is an exceptional keeper but he is also a very aggressive goalkeeper. He likes to be involved which makes some of his decision making a bit suspect in that he goes for balls that he has no right to and gets himself in some strange positions which leads to errors. Last season it seemed he felt he had to do something exceptional in every game to justify his fee and he made far too many errors. To be truly world class, he needs cut out the errors and to do that he needs to calm down a bit and improve his decision making (without losing the aggression that makes him the keeper he is).

As for Mats Hummels, he's not even the best centre half in his family (http://www.spvgg-unterhaching.de/club/p ... er_id=3136)

[fat tony]

Whatever the score, at least you can count on Eng-ur-lund fans to be out in force backing our national side... oh no, hang on, we've sold less than half of an allocation of 9k...

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/9 ... id-ukraine

I can believe it as well. I've been out to Portugal and Germany to watch England in past tournaments but wouldn't dream of travelling to watch us again, and I'll only go to Wembley when I can go for free through work. More than the cost, I think it's the decade of hype & failure that has put a lot of fans off. It's certainly why I'm so down on us. And that's probably why things are generally more subdued for this tournament.

I reckon tonight could be like the Germany game in the last World Cup. A bog-standard two banks of four getting rings run round them by technically far better players. The only saving grace is that I think Hodgson will play very deep and look to counter with Young and Wellbeck. It'll strangle the game as a spectacle but might mean England can sneak a draw if they can hold out.

[Spyman]

Interesting you should refer to the mythical dominance of Germany 2 years ago. While they undoubtedly deserved the win, they were far from 'running rings' around England as we've been led to believe ever since.

Look at the stats from that game. England had more possession over the 90 minutes, something like 1 more shot, hit the bar twice and had a legitimate goal not given. Neuer also made a worldy.

England defended very poorly for a few of the goals, but that game was nowhere near the schooling that people like to pretend it was.

[Darlobaz79]

The OX to start against France, better than Downing that's for sure!
Hart, Johnson, Terry, Lescott, Cole, Milner, Gerrard, Parker, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Welbeck, Young.

[Spyman]

I'd be better than Downing.

[Norm_D_Ploom]

I would take 0-0 now mate to be honest I think France are a decent team and will go a long way.

Re the centre backs I would be happy with Terry/Cahill or Jags/Lescott but not Terry/Lescott. JT for all his faults is a decent reader of the game and actually a good centre back, but he has no pace, add Cahill who does have pace and is a decent reader of the game and they make a good pair, same with Jags & Lescott who played together for a while at Everton and usually did ok.

But Terry & Lescott as a pairing I agree with you to be honest that is a worry.

You're an idiot. Cahill is no faster than Lescott, and "Jags" is not much faster than Terry. You seem to know less about the game than a gerbil.

You'd be happy with Jagielka and Lescott but not Terry and Lescott?

From you,

quality, pure qaulity

[lo36789]

Hart
Johnson Terry Lescott Cole

Jones Gerrard Parker

Oxlade Carroll Young

Solid at the back...solid in midfielder (need the defensive midfielders to help the fullbacks double up on Ribery) the remaining defensive mid either Parker/Jones needs to keep tabs on Nasri can't have him floating around in between defence/midfield.

That front 3 if they are on their games will terrorise the french mixture of pace and power.

Hodgson won't play that mind...He will probably end up going 4-4-1-1 and play downing & milner.

[Darlo_H]

Whatever the score, at least you can count on Eng-ur-lund fans to be out in force backing our national side... oh no, hang on, we've sold less than half of an allocation of 9k...

I'd say that's less due to the level of support and more that travel costs and accommodation are costing a fortune compared to previous Euro tournaments. It also doesn't help that Ukraine is a bit of a shithole.

[fat tony]

Interesting you should refer to the mythical dominance of Germany 2 years ago. While they undoubtedly deserved the win, they were far from 'running rings' around England as we've been led to believe ever since.

Look at the stats from that game. England had more possession over the 90 minutes, something like 1 more shot, hit the bar twice and had a legitimate goal not given. Neuer also made a worldy.

England defended very poorly for a few of the goals, but that game was nowhere near the schooling that people like to pretend it was.

Interesting stats, I didn't know that. Not too surprised by them though. It was a counterattacking German side all the way through the tournament. Most of the goals were speedy breaks where they soaked up a blunt England attack and tore through the lines between England's two banks of four. The Germans did pick us apart and break through at will, that's what I mean by running rings, and they could have had more than 4. You don't get unlucky 4-1 defeats at that level of international football, it was a convincing win. In my view anyway.

[lo36789]

yeh i remember coming away having watched the game feeling like england didn't even look like getting anything an really the german side were in control. Technically better, fitter and a better team unit as well.

[Spyman]

Yet England were a few centimetres and a bad refereeing decsion away from scoring 5 goals.