Yet more religious nuttery

Talk about anything you want in here.

Moderators: mikkyx, uncovered

Quakerz
Posts: 20958
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:32 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:57 pm

It is massively dying out, and halleluja to that.

I'm actually surprised when I see overtly religious people these days
Image

“Everybody knows where that club is going now, so I’m out of the way. They can carry on, it’s their club, they can keep it." - Raj Singh, 2017

sacko_uk
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:23 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by sacko_uk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:40 pm

Ok no problem, there are no excuses being made, simply an invitation, which you have every right obviously not to accept.

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:32 pm

I do have every right to refuse, just as I have every right to refuse the existence of a god, and the right to refuse all and every religion in existence.

Except your loving God doesn't see it that way, does he? Both he and his alter-ego Jesus have condemned me to an eternity in Hell for not accepting Jesus as my saviour, for rejecting God's existence, and for many, many other things.

No doubt you've found a way to gloss over that concept in your mind as well though, no matter how insane or horrific.

And before you start mentioning free will: it's not free will if there's only one feasible option, and it's not free will if I'm being threatened to choose only one option.

Luckily, I'm 100% certain that the Christian religion is a load of made-up bollocks so I know none of this is real, but it still upsets me that every Christian on the planet is fine with this concept.

sacko_uk
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:23 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by sacko_uk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:41 pm

Sorry to hear that it upsets you so much and it's good that you have considered both sides for yourself and made that choice. As you know I made a different choice to yours to which I have the same conviction of certainty, but that is, like you say, the good thing about choice.

Like I said, it's good that you haven't taken your decision lightly and looked at it in detail

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:59 pm

sacko_uk wrote:Sorry to hear that it upsets you so much and it's good that you have considered both sides for yourself and made that choice. As you know I made a different choice to yours to which I have the same conviction of certainty, but that is, like you say, the good thing about choice.

Like I said, it's good that you haven't taken your decision lightly and looked at it in detail
Choosing one side or the other doesn't make it reality. Believing in God doesn't make him exist. You don't have magic thinking powers. All that matters is the evidence. Reality doesn't care about your opinion but exists outside of it, and the only way of discerning that reality is through the evidence.

You also have a strange ability of replying without actually answering any of the issues I raise, so please either answer my points properly or this whole back-and-forth between us is a waste of time.

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:20 pm

sacko_uk wrote:Lovely article here by the Brazil team http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28202816

Especially the quote from David Luiz "My faith in Jesus gives me strength to keep on going out onto the field and to do my best," he says. "But I also want to inspire others - that is what God inspires me to do. For me, true life is found in the relationship with Jesus Christ. I believe that everything in life belongs to God and he has a clear plan for us if we follow him."
Great plan. You'd think he didn't exist or something...

Quakerz
Posts: 20958
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:32 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:39 am

God obviously prefers Germans. I don't think he liked the way that the Brazilians kept sucking up to him and thinking they were special.

Good article on Jonathan Edwards here...http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life- ... ap-3190574
Image

“Everybody knows where that club is going now, so I’m out of the way. They can carry on, it’s their club, they can keep it." - Raj Singh, 2017

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:41 am

Quakerz wrote:God obviously prefers Germans. I don't think he liked the way that the Brazilians kept sucking up to him and thinking they were special.

Good article on Jonathan Edwards here...http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life- ... ap-3190574
Good article and pleased to see Edwards come back into the real world.

They always talk about faith as if it's a virtue, as if having faith is something to be proud of, but it isn't. They're essentially believing something without evidence and that is one of the stupidest things you could do.

Anything which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:54 am

Also, saw this and thought of the earlier discussion which sacko was unable to respond to:

Image

User avatar
Spyman
Posts: 12644
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Spyman » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:19 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote: although I guess religion is dying out world-wide and on a massive scale in this country (thank fuck).
It doesn't feel like it. It feels as though Christianity is dying out, but not sure about religion.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:54 pm

Spyman wrote:
DarloOnTheUp wrote: although I guess religion is dying out world-wide and on a massive scale in this country (thank fuck).
It doesn't feel like it. It feels as though Christianity is dying out, but not sure about religion.
A girl can dream... :cry:

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:05 pm

Image

princes town
Posts: 4127
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington/Blackburn

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by princes town » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:18 pm

I have a lot of sympathy with the arguments raised by atheists and humanists. Where I do draw the line is this omniscient assumption that the world would necessarily be a better place by default without religion. Simply not true and a greater myth than religion.

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:44 pm

princes town wrote:I have a lot of sympathy with the arguments raised by atheists and humanists. Where I do draw the line is this omniscient assumption that the world would necessarily be a better place by default without religion.
Nobody is making any assumptions, they're just forming an opinion based on the evidence.

In my and many other atheists' opinion, the world WOULD be a better place without religion, but that isn't an assumption, and I also can't see into the future or into alternate realities so can't say for certainty, but it's an opinion formed based on evidence.
princes town wrote:Simply not true and a greater myth than religion.
There is no greater myth than religion.

Quakerz
Posts: 20958
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:32 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:37 pm

So, another day, another religious slaughter.

One day it's Palestinians being mown down, another day IS are killing anyone who isn't a muslim, in Iraq.

Add to that all of the backwards, stone age antics (or laws as they like to call them), in all of these pisspot, 3rd world arab and african countries - where you get raped then stoned to death for being raped, or murdered for being gay or atheist, or hanged for infringing some stupid pisspot rule - and you just have to think to yourself...

Thank fuck I'm English.

I mean seriously, I don't want to be jingoistic here, but we couldn't have been luckier...and with that said, it really riles me when people moan and moan and moan on about what a wreck this country is. No, no it isn't, it's one of the best places you could ever be, no matter how crap you might think your life is.

Back to religion, the biggest threat facing the world right now is islam. It's like a virus trying it's best to spread and infect everyone - in fact turning everyone on the planet muslim has always been it's aim. And when you have extremists pushing it, it can be at any cost.

I'm so sick of human beings and the fairies that they believe in. It's 99% of the worlds problems.

We have to exterminate all religion, somehow.
Image

“Everybody knows where that club is going now, so I’m out of the way. They can carry on, it’s their club, they can keep it." - Raj Singh, 2017

lo36789
Posts: 10930
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by lo36789 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:59 pm

Quakerz wrote:We have to exterminate all religion, somehow.
This might do it

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 70910.html

Armageddon aside, I always cling to hope that science will disprove enough of religion that all of a sudden it becomes defunct. Then I remember that it already has pretty much disproved religious stories already and they don't listen.

I do think with each generation religion is getting weaker.

Quakerz
Posts: 20958
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:32 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:29 am

I'd agree that in the West, religion is getting weaker at each generation, but it still has a huge hold over the middle east etc, and it's the most poisonous religion of them all. It's a case of believe or die over there, what chance do people have?

"Convert to islam or die". Lovely.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28814633

80 innocents slaughtered, can only imagine what will happen to the wives and kids - all in the name of allah. This is really happening, right now.

Wankers. Backwards, stone age, superstitious, murdering WANKERS.
Image

“Everybody knows where that club is going now, so I’m out of the way. They can carry on, it’s their club, they can keep it." - Raj Singh, 2017

Bogratsteve
Posts: 4025
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:57 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Bogratsteve » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:36 am

You talking about inhabitants of West Quakerz?!?

User avatar
Spyman
Posts: 12644
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Spyman » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:31 pm

Quakerz wrote:
Back to religion, the biggest threat facing the world right now is islam.
Islamic Extremists, yes. Not Islam as a whole though - the vast majority are just peaceful people getting on with their lives and their fairytale beliefs. It's the nutcases coupled with the fact that their nutcases are largely prevalent in a country that isn't developed enough to defend itself against them.

There are extremist nutcases in every religion (every walk of life, even). But in the Western world our security tends to be strong enough to make them of little threat.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:16 pm

Spyman wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
Back to religion, the biggest threat facing the world right now is islam.
Islamic Extremists, yes. Not Islam as a whole though - the vast majority are just peaceful people getting on with their lives and their fairytale beliefs. It's the nutcases coupled with the fact that their nutcases are largely prevalent in a country that isn't developed enough to defend itself against them.

There are extremist nutcases in every religion (every walk of life, even). But in the Western world our security tends to be strong enough to make them of little threat.
They get their justification, ideas, and influences from the Qu'ran though so just shrugging them off as "extremists" or "nutcases" isn't good enough, sorry.

If the Fundamentalists are like that then there's clearly something wrong with the fundamentals.

The "moderates" just tend to cherry pick and gloss over the "bad bits" of their precious books, and this is especially true of Christianity. But I say again: not good enough. It's either all the word of God or none of it is.

User avatar
Spyman
Posts: 12644
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Spyman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:32 am

I haven't read the Qu'ran, and I only have the basic bible knowledge stuff that is shovelled down your throat at school.

Is there stuff in the Qu'ran about slaughtering anyone who isn't Muslim?

Exremists will interpret their religion how they want to interpret it as a means to an end. What IS really want is control and power, and they're using religion as a justification. The majority of Muslims (and Christians, and various other fairy worshippers) interpret their religion as a moral code or whatever and lead peaceful lives - but you'll have people of all religion who only use it to justify their selfish and often dangerous actions - which I'd bet are very rarely actually motivated by a desire to please 'God'.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

Fatty eats roadkill
Posts: 3664
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 7:31 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: On top of a 29 year old big chested woman

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Fatty eats roadkill » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:58 am

Aren't you being an extremist DOTU?
Waiting for Raj to shaft them!

karlo-cardiff
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:16 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by karlo-cardiff » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:43 pm

Darlobaz79 wrote:South Bucks is not Darlo but it is hardly a delusional fantasy land either!
It is if it's high Wycombe.......!!

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:41 pm

Unfortunately yes, the majority of morally abhorrent actions done in the name of religion throughout history have justification in some religious text. Take your pick, it's a very big list.

I'd love to say that it's down to interpretation but the only time interpretation comes into it is when the moderates' cognitive dissonance and own morals kick in and their brain informs them that their loving god whom they have a personal relationship with (yet said relationship is still somehow one way) would never condone such an action.

For example, the pro-slavery Christians in the 19th century found direct justification for slavery in the Bible, yet the anti-slavery Christians cried "interpretation" and "but my loving God would never condone such a thing" which allowed them to ignore the truth. There are no lines explicitly rejecting slavery in the Bible, whereas there are many encouraging it, so the moderates had to rely on interpretation, cherry picking, and indirect quotes.

Both the Qu'ran and the Bible have lines explicitly and directly encouraging the killing of non-believers, believers of other religions, homosexuals, death for apostasy, eternal torture for non-belief, and the suppression of women. Again, interpretation only comes into it when the moderates won't see what's staring them in the face, and their cognitive dissonance kicks in once more. There is a gigantic lack of intellectual honesty.

Even if you ignore the content, the fact still remains that the Bible and Qu'ran were last changed approximately 1700 and 1300 years ago respectively. So they haven't been altered since a time when humans thought the Earth was the centre of the Universe, that witches were real, and that the Earth was only a few thousand years old. Regardless of how these texts are used, that in itself is scarily dangerous since human society has moved on, yet these texts are stuck in ancient times.

Moreover, the two main religions (Islam and Christianity) are divisive by their very nature. They both preach that their god is the one true god and that all others are going to burn in hell for eternity. That is another dangerous concept on its own regardless of anything else.
Fatty eats roadkill wrote:Aren't you being an extremist DOTU?
Excuse me whilst I join all the other atheists in killing each other for who doesn't believe in all the gods the most. Oh wait no, that never happens.

User avatar
Spyman
Posts: 12644
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Spyman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:09 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:Unfortunately yes, the majority of morally abhorrent actions done in the name of religion throughout history have justification in some religious text. Take your pick, it's a very big list.

I'd love to say that it's down to interpretation but the only time interpretation comes into it is when the moderates' cognitive dissonance and own morals kick in and their brain informs them that their loving god whom they have a personal relationship with (yet said relationship is still somehow one way) would never condone such an action.

For example, the pro-slavery Christians in the 19th century found direct justification for slavery in the Bible, yet the anti-slavery Christians cried "interpretation" and "but my loving God would never condone such a thing" which allowed them to ignore the truth. There are no lines explicitly rejecting slavery in the Bible, whereas there are many encouraging it, so the moderates had to rely on interpretation, cherry picking, and indirect quotes.

Both the Qu'ran and the Bible have lines explicitly and directly encouraging the killing of non-believers, believers of other religions, homosexuals, death for apostasy, eternal torture for non-belief, and the suppression of women. Again, interpretation only comes into it when the moderates won't see what's staring them in the face, and their cognitive dissonance kicks in once more. There is a gigantic lack of intellectual honesty.

Even if you ignore the content, the fact still remains that the Bible and Qu'ran were last changed approximately 1700 and 1300 years ago respectively. So they haven't been altered since a time when humans thought the Earth was the centre of the Universe, that witches were real, and that the Earth was only a few thousand years old. Regardless of how these texts are used, that in itself is scarily dangerous since human society has moved on, yet these texts are stuck in ancient times.

Moreover, the two main religions (Islam and Christianity) are divisive by their very nature. They both preach that their god is the one true god and that all others are going to burn in hell for eternity. That is another dangerous concept on its own regardless of anything else.
Fatty eats roadkill wrote:Aren't you being an extremist DOTU?
Excuse me whilst I join all the other atheists in killing each other for who doesn't believe in all the gods the most. Oh wait no, that never happens.
If you could kill everyone who was religious with a click of the fingers, therefore extinguishing all religion and allowing atheists to procreate and build a religiousness society, would you?
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:31 pm

Spyman wrote:If you could kill everyone who was religious with a click of the fingers, therefore extinguishing all religion and allowing atheists to procreate and build a religiousness society, would you?
:wtf:

No, of course not. These are people we're talking about here. If you honestly needed me to answer that then you've missed my point entirely.

Who do you think I am, the god of the Old Testament?

I would also be against the banning of religion as people should be free to make their own choices.

User avatar
Spyman
Posts: 12644
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Spyman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:58 pm

I didn't miss your point - I was playing devils advocate. If you could prevent all future death, suffering, injustice caused by religion, for every future generation by wiping one generation off the face of the earth, wouldn't that be the best course of action?
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:10 pm

Spyman wrote:I didn't miss your point - I was playing devils advocate. If you could prevent all future death, suffering, injustice caused by religion, for every future generation by wiping one generation off the face of the earth, wouldn't that be the best course of action?
No, and I'm not sure why you'd ever seriously think my answer to that question would ever be anything other than no.

User avatar
Spyman
Posts: 12644
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Spyman » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:13 am

I didn't ever seriously think your answer would be any different - I was asking you a question, not telling you what you'd do.

It's an interesting thought, that's all. Religion causes a huge amount of suffering worldwide, has done for years and will continue to do so for years. If you could stop 1 billion from dying by wiping out 1 million, would that not be the right thing to do?

In a way, that's what IS are trying to do, isn't it? Some kind of cleansing? Problem is, it is based on made up fairy-belief and their desire for everyone to belive something which has no evidence to back it up.

Removing all religion through cleansing wouldn't be right, because like you say, everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

Anyway, if you took religion out, there'd still be money, power and greed to cause wars - and I believe most of these 'religious' conflicts stem from this anyway.

I've been watching too much Utopia!
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:01 am

Spyman wrote:I didn't ever seriously think your answer would be any different - I was asking you a question, not telling you what you'd do.

It's an interesting thought, that's all. Religion causes a huge amount of suffering worldwide, has done for years and will continue to do so for years. If you could stop 1 billion from dying by wiping out 1 million, would that not be the right thing to do?

In a way, that's what IS are trying to do, isn't it? Some kind of cleansing? Problem is, it is based on made up fairy-belief and their desire for everyone to belive something which has no evidence to back it up.

Removing all religion through cleansing wouldn't be right, because like you say, everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

Anyway, if you took religion out, there'd still be money, power and greed to cause wars - and I believe most of these 'religious' conflicts stem from this anyway.

I've been watching too much Utopia!
Ah right sorry, I just wasn't sure where you were going with the question!

But I agree with the points you've made there and I wouldn't even need to think about my answer.

Preventing death, suffering, and injustice by causing death, suffering, and injustice? I hate religion, made worse by the fact that I know it's all made-up bollocks, but I would never even consider that option. Plus life should never be viewed in purely mathematical terms (i.e. if I kill x amount then I'll save x amount), although sadly we often still do that with non-human life.

Post Reply