Yet more religious nuttery

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Quakerz
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Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:46 am

Muslim cleric cuts his wife to pieces because she challenged god's orders. Nice...

http://tribune.com.pk/story/593466/cut- ... ds-orders/
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by fozzovmurton » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:56 am

Quakerz wrote:Muslim cleric cuts his wife to pieces because she challenged god's orders. Nice...

http://tribune.com.pk/story/593466/cut- ... ds-orders/
Fuck me, those Hard Liners are fucking nutcases
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by lo36789 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:26 am

I was half expecting a similar logic to Pope Benedict's version of events to how he came to resign. Basically if you are devoutly religious you can say that decisions you make we're planted in your head by the high and mighty.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:24 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kxO4Is4HQk

Apparently homosexuality is worse than slavery. Why? Because the Bible!

She is right like, the Bible does condemn homosexuality but encourage slavery, so at least she's being faithful to what her god is telling her.

She obviously missed these bits though:

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law." (1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35)

"And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

Silent woman! The Lord commandeth it!

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by joejaques » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:46 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kxO4Is4HQk

Silent woman! The Lord commandeth it!

Knew there had to be something right in religion somewhere. :roll:
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:00 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kxO4Is4HQk

Apparently homosexuality is worse than slavery. Why? Because the Bible!

She is right like, the Bible does condemn homosexuality but encourage slavery, so at least she's being faithful to what her god is telling her.

She obviously missed these bits though:

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law." (1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35)

"And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

Silent woman! The Lord commandeth it!
You read those passages and it was so obviously written by blokes wanting to keep their women subservient to them, that I just dunno how anybody can believe religion.

What makes it more bizarre is that women are just as likely as men to believe this shiit.

PS fuck off baz.
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by princes town » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:37 pm

It is a bit unfair to blame Islam on Baz.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:54 pm

I was talking about christianity in my last post, because I was quoting DOTU's bible passages.
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Darlobaz79 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:00 pm

Hi

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DarloOnTheUp
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:23 pm

Have you finally entered reality Baz or are you still living in a delusional fantasy land?

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Darlobaz79 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:45 am

South Bucks is not Darlo but it is hardly a delusional fantasy land either!

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Mullet69 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:49 am

I amongst others was asked by my (sort of) niece whether I believed in god last week for some school project. My answer was to be backed up by reasoning. My answer was that I did not believe in god, my reasoning was simply that he does not exist, never has and never will. Apparently my response is voided because that is not a considered and structured answer (teacher's response) - I am supposed to justify why I don't believe god exists and back it up with factual information.

I just thank the lord that my education was in that little window of time where RE wasnt in the curriculum. My sisters werent so lucky, but both of them (courtesy of sensible parenting) refused to do it and were pulled out of the subject.
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by lo36789 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:01 pm

Mullet69 wrote:I am supposed to justify why I don't believe god exists and back it up with factual information.
Haha I like that the default is deemed to be God exists now prove otherwise.

I always thought you were meant to start with a nul hypothesis?

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Darlobaz79 wrote:South Bucks is not Darlo but it is hardly a delusional fantasy land either!
Cognitive dissonance at its best. Don't worry, just keep avoiding the nasty men like me who spout hard truths and continue with your confirmation bias tactics. If you're not interested in the truth, only what you want to be true, then there's literally nothing I can do or say to open your eyes.

Just remember: your god is REAL. All those other gods are ridiculous, made-up nonsense. But not yours. Your god is real. Whichever one that is.
lo36789 wrote:
Mullet69 wrote:I am supposed to justify why I don't believe god exists and back it up with factual information.
Haha I like that the default is deemed to be God exists now prove otherwise.

I always thought you were meant to start with a nul hypothesis?
Santa Claus is real. Can I prove he is? How about you prove he isn't!

I can fly. Can I prove it? How about you prove I can't!

I've got irrefutable evidence that no gods exist. Can I prove it? How about you prove I don't!

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:25 pm

Quakerz wrote:You read those passages and it was so obviously written by blokes wanting to keep their women subservient to them, that I just dunno how anybody can believe religion.

What makes it more bizarre is that women are just as likely as men to believe this shiit.

PS fuck off baz.
And another point:

Other than the blatant sexism mentioned above, there's bits about stoning gay people, stoning non-virgins on their wedding night (women only), forcing rape victims to marry their attacker, the condoning of slavery (even Jesus says slavery is fine), allowing non-Jewish people to become slaves and your property, beating your slaves as much as you want as long as they don't die, stoning children if they don't obey their parents, stoning people who work on the Sabbath, stoning believers in other gods and other religions, stoning atheists, and to top it all off: anyone who doesn't do exactly what this apparently all-loving all-knowing creator says is going to burn, suffer, and be tortured in Hell for all eternity even though he doesn't follow his own fucking guidance.

How anyone can sit there and try to justify any of this is beyond me. And how anyone can also claim this god is loving is beyond me too, especially when you take into account his penchant for genocide, murder, and animal sacrifice.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by lo36789 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:04 pm

DOTU you know more about the bible than a vicar?

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Darlobaz79 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:10 pm

:roll:

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Jeffrey Dahmer, Kim Jong II, Than Shwe, Napoleon, Alfred Kinsey - all athiests! What a terrible lot!

and lo, no he doesn't he simply refuses to understand writing within its original context and how it relates to the modern day. Notice how I don't come here spouting about religion, it is DOTU and Quakerz, maybe something within their conscience is stirring them to question their meaning and purpose here on earth. Praying for them...

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by princes town » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:26 pm

Quakerz wrote:I was talking about christianity in my last post, because I was quoting DOTU's bible passages.
yes you were, my mistake. Anyway, it doesn't really matter because even the Old Testament has some horrific and cruel texts although I think Islam is in a class of its own as regards cruelty. the only thing that intrigues me is that the Christ character seems out of place compared to the rest of the book. Its almost as if this rebel came along but the disciples doctored the rest of the book back to Jewish tradition. Jesus was quite modern in his attitudes to women, for example when he stood in the way of a stoning of a prostitute. Quite like the gospels but the rest of the book is awful.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:48 pm

Darlobaz79 wrote::roll:

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Jeffrey Dahmer, Kim Jong II, Than Shwe, Napoleon, Alfred Kinsey - all athiests! What a terrible lot!
Irrelevant. None of them committed any atrocities in the name of atheism so your point is moot. It's like saying they were all men, or they all had hair, or that they all had two legs, as if that somehow gives all men, or everyone with hair, or everyone with two legs a bad name.
Darlobaz79 wrote:and lo, no he doesn't he simply refuses to understand writing within its original context and how it relates to the modern day.
Yes I do, because I've read it without any bias and with a critical, logical mind. I clearly understand it more than most Christians, including you.

And in what context is any of what I mentioned OK? In what context is slavery fine, or sexism, or stoning gay people, or stoning non-believers, or non-virgins, or genocide, or murder, or animal sacrifice. In what context is ANY of that OK? Wake up!

This is supposed to be the word of a god. An all-loving, all-knowing creator, yet it reads like it was written by men living 2000 years ago. The logical conclusion? That it was written by men living 2000 years ago. Therefore it should not hold any sway today, and it is clearly not the word of any god, so its words should not be relied upon at all, including the bits which tell you how to get into heaven.

EDIT: Either that, or your god is an immoral, sexist, racist, homophobic, genocidal, violent, slavery-condoning wanker, who doesn't seem to remember how he created the universe and everything in it. Your choice.
Darlobaz79 wrote:Notice how I don't come here spouting about religion, it is DOTU and Quakerz, maybe something within their conscience is stirring them to question their meaning and purpose here on earth.
So? Are you seriously using the "well he started it" line? I'll shut up about religion when it starts making some fucking sense and stops being a force for evil in the world.

And of course I question the meaning and purpose of life, every day in fact. But the difference between me and you is that I care about reality, and about what is true, not what I want to be true.
Darlobaz79 wrote:Praying for them...
You mean you'll do nothing. Prayer has been proven to do exactly that: nothing. Try removing random chance, that the thing you prayed for was going to happen without prayer anyways, and it won't work.

For example, try praying that an amputee grows his leg back, or that someone comes back from the dead, or that god cures all cancer, or stops world starvation, and it doesn't work. The conclusion? Prayers don't work, and when they appear to, it is nothing more than random chance.

Also, saying to an atheist you'll pray for them is like saying you'll write a letter to Santa telling him how naughty we've been. Oh really? Well that's my life ruined.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Spyman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:29 am

Darlobaz79 wrote::roll:

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Jeffrey Dahmer, Kim Jong II, Than Shwe, Napoleon, Alfred Kinsey - all athiests! What a terrible lot!

and lo, no he doesn't he simply refuses to understand writing within its original context and how it relates to the modern day. Notice how I don't come here spouting about religion, it is DOTU and Quakerz, maybe something within their conscience is stirring them to question their meaning and purpose here on earth. Praying for them...
Atheists who shared something with your imaginary God. They all killed a lot of innocent people.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by lo36789 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:15 am

I have seen identical religious texts interpretted in completely opposite ways. There are clearly good ways to understand the texts and bad ways. Whilst DOTU sees them in the bad way to make his point I have seen very good reasoning behind the same texts which are positive.

Both deviate from the literal meaning of the text, both are interpretation.

I do think we'd all be better of if nobody had invented religion, unfortunately, the science wasn't around in them days to explain the world as we know it now. It is now.

PS. Darlobaz79 wasn't Adolf Hitler Christian?

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:00 pm

lo36789 wrote:I have seen identical religious texts interpretted in completely opposite ways. There are clearly good ways to understand the texts and bad ways. Whilst DOTU sees them in the bad way to make his point I have seen very good reasoning behind the same texts which are positive.

Both deviate from the literal meaning of the text, both are interpretation.

I do think we'd all be better of if nobody had invented religion, unfortunately, the science wasn't around in them days to explain the world as we know it now. It is now.

PS. Darlobaz79 wasn't Adolf Hitler Christian?
I'm not interpreting anything lo: there really is no other way to interpret a line telling you to stone gay people because they're an abomination, or a story detailing how God committed genocide, or murder, or asked someone else to do it for him (such as when he commands Abraham to kill his own son Isaac), or a section detailing how all non-believers are going to burn and suffer in hell for eternity, etc. etc. etc.

I don't fully understand the point you're making, could you elaborate a bit? I can give you specific lines if you think any of this is open to interpretation.

If you're talking about the fact that the Bible contains nice passages, then yeah of course it does. But so what? It's still pointless.

If you're doing something because someone told you it was moral, no matter what you think yourself, then you're not acting morally because you're just doing what you're told. If you pick and choose from the Bible, and ignore the "moral guidance" because it contradicts your own moral compass, then you don't need it! You've basically just used your own sense of right and wrong to decide that something god is telling you is immoral. So not only are you more moral than god, but you're evaluating what he's told you and deciding right from wrong, meaning you don't need this guidance at all.

Morality should be worked out and decided upon, it shouldn't be an absolute decided by some dictator figure. And we've already proven that we don't need the Bible for morality anyways.

Slavery is encouraged and condoned in the Bible, but we've decided it's immoral. Stoning is encouraged in the Bible, as is homophobia, sexism, racism; yet as a nation (at least) we've decided, based on logic, reason, and experience, that none of this is moral. So if the Bible has got some of the biggest moral issues humanity has faced utterly wrong, then how can it be relied upon for anything else, and what is its purpose exactly?

And don't get me fucking started on the historical inaccuracies (there's a s*** ton) and the scientific inaccuracies (there's a s*** ton).

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by lo36789 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:14 pm

Yes I forgot that line in the bible where it just says. "Stone gay people because it is an abomination". That is the line is it?

The bible of the very short bits I have heard at weddings and funerals is written in quite metaphoric terms. It is therefore up to interpretation what those metaphors mean.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:25 pm

lo36789 wrote:Yes I forgot that line in the bible where it just says. "Stone gay people because it is an abomination". That is the line is it?

The bible of the very short bits I have heard at weddings and funerals is written in quite metaphoric terms. It is therefore up to interpretation what those metaphors mean.
Err, you're not far off actually:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)

And here's the other lines which I've mentioned previously, such as the stoning of non-virgins:

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

Slavery with a bit of racism thrown in:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46)

More slavery:

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21)

Even more slavery:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

Death for working on the Sabbath:

"You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." (Exodus 31:14)

The Lord commanding Moses to stone a man to death:

"Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. And those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation; and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." So all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36)

I can go on?

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by lo36789 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:53 pm

Quite a lot more explicit than the stuff I have heard before to be honest.
Darlobaz79 wrote:no he doesn't he simply refuses to understand writing within its original context and how it relates to the modern day.
I'd actually be interested to hear Baz help me understand the modern context of the above?

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Fatty eats roadkill » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:23 pm

I can prove you can't fly DOTU ;)
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:32 pm

"And the half, the portion of those who had gone out in the army, numbered 337,500 sheep, and the Lord's tribute of sheep was 675." (Numbers 31:36)

Give me sheep!!!!

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:17-18)

But kill all the men and non-virgins, including young boys, and keep all the young female virgins for yourselves to rape as you please.

"and 32,000 persons in all, women who had not known man by lying with him... of which the Lord's tribute was 32 persons." (Numbers 31:35-40)

Oh, and send me some virgins as well. I'm the fucking Lord but I can't get my own virgins and sheep!

Wow, I can feel the love and morality oozing out of this guy.

Thank fuck he's fictional.

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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by Quakerz » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:33 am

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:I can prove you can't fly DOTU ;)
He can only fly when you aren't looking, in the 4th dimension. Prove that he can't.
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by joejaques » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:34 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:"And the half, the portion of those who had gone out in the army, numbered 337,500 sheep, and the Lord's tribute of sheep was 675." (Numbers 31:36)

Give me sheep!!!!

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:17-18)

But kill all the men and non-virgins, including young boys, and keep all the young female virgins for yourselves to rape as you please.

"and 32,000 persons in all, women who had not known man by lying with him... of which the Lord's tribute was 32 persons." (Numbers 31:35-40)

Oh, and send me some virgins as well. I'm the fucking Lord but I can't get my own virgins and sheep!
Wow, I can feel the love and morality oozing out of this guy.

Thank fuck he's fictional.
Leave the sheep alone Boyo, I'm living in Wild West Wales now. :roll:
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Re: Yet more religious nuttery

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:08 pm

joejaques wrote:
DarloOnTheUp wrote:"And the half, the portion of those who had gone out in the army, numbered 337,500 sheep, and the Lord's tribute of sheep was 675." (Numbers 31:36)

Give me sheep!!!!

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:17-18)

But kill all the men and non-virgins, including young boys, and keep all the young female virgins for yourselves to rape as you please.

"and 32,000 persons in all, women who had not known man by lying with him... of which the Lord's tribute was 32 persons." (Numbers 31:35-40)

Oh, and send me some virgins as well. I'm the fucking Lord but I can't get my own virgins and sheep!
Wow, I can feel the love and morality oozing out of this guy.

Thank fuck he's fictional.
Leave the sheep alone Boyo, I'm living in Wild West Wales now. :roll:
Funnily enough, I was born in South West Wales.

Together we should have enough sheep to appease the Lord, although I'm fresh out of virgins.

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