You are here: darlofc.co.uk » Board index » The Uncovered Forums » The Off Topic Room
It is currently Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:01 pm View unanswered posts | View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Democracy under threat.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Posts: 10968
Team Supported: Darlington
I voted to remain in the EU and we lost the public vote. I think democracy is under serious threat if the result of that vote was ignored and another vote held. If that did happen, I would now vote to leave to make sure that that first democratic vote was upheld.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Posts: 10968
Team Supported: Darlington
Darlo_Pete wrote:
I voted to remain in the EU and we lost the public vote. I think democracy is under serious threat if the result of that vote was ignored and another vote held. If that did happen, I would now vote to leave to make sure that that first democratic vote was upheld.
Why?

Surely if there was another vote people should vote for what they want, if more voted remain it would mean that on reflection people think it would be better to stay in the EU.

Do you think the result would be different if people voted now (just voting on the topic rather than doing what you would do)?

If you think the vote would stay the same then there would be no reason to change your vote, if you think that more would vote remain then tbh I struggle to work out your thought process, I guess you probably voted remain by accident and would use the opportunity to put it right.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

If the remain vote had won, how do you think they would react if people who wanted brexit now tried to force another vote? They rightly would be up in arms, saying there had been a democratic vote and the voters had wanted to remain. You can't have the best of 3 votes in British politics. The majority of people voted to leave, so that is what I believe should happen, even though I voted to remain.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:13 pm
Posts: 279
Team Supported: Darlington
If the remain vote had won, how do you think they would react if people who wanted brexit now tried to force another vote? They rightly would be up in arms, saying there had been a democratic vote and the voters had wanted to remain. You can't have the best of 3 votes in British politics. The majority of people voted to leave, so that is what I believe should happen, even though I voted to remain.[/quote]

As far as I'm concerned it's now just history; the government of the day has had to get on with the fall out as best they can.
Me, I'm not sure whether being in or out is a good thing or a bad thing, what I do get fed up with is people going on and on about the result, or having more referendums till they get the outcome they want, like the S Nats.

One referendum's enough surely.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Posts: 10968
Team Supported: Darlington
Feethams 1966 wrote:
If the remain vote had won, how do you think they would react if people who wanted brexit now tried to force another vote? They rightly would be up in arms, saying there had been a democratic vote and the voters had wanted to remain. You can't have the best of 3 votes in British politics. The majority of people voted to leave, so that is what I believe should happen, even though I voted to remain.


As far as I'm concerned it's now just history; the government of the day has had to get on with the fall out as best they can.
Me, I'm not sure whether being in or out is a good thing or a bad thing, what I do get fed up with is people going on and on about the result, or having more referendums till they get the outcome they want, like the S Nats.

One referendum's enough surely.[/quote]

Exactly my view, the people have spoken and that is it. Another referendum would undermine our democracy, that so many people have died for over the years.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:58 pm
Posts: 622
Location: darlington
Team Supported: Darlington
Totally agree with DP, no way do we have another vote, and I voted to stay in


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 1016
Team Supported: Darlington
Brexit in any of its forms, but particularly No Deal or WTO terms, will be highly damaging to this country for generations. This wasn’t what was promised by Farage, Johnson, Fox, Davis, et al. “Sunlit Uplands”, “Easiest Deal in the World”, “Better Terms than we have now”, etc. For these broken promises alone, there should be a vote to see if the public wish to accept what is currently on offer which is (a) No Deal; (b) Bad Deal; or (c) Remain if a majority have changed their minds.
Democracy is an ongoing process, not a single event and next March will be almost 3 years after the event - there is so much more information available regarding Brexit. It would be foolish not to take advantage of that info. Did anyone vote to be poorer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 2600
Location: Milford Haven
Team Supported: Darlington
The EU is coming apart at the seams anyway. Why would you want a seat at the table when the roof fall in? I'd rather be outside watching the dust plume. :roll:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Posts: 3421
Team Supported: Darlington
QuakerPete wrote:
Brexit in any of its forms, but particularly No Deal or WTO terms, will be highly damaging to this country for generations. This wasn’t what was promised by Farage, Johnson, Fox, Davis, et al. “Sunlit Uplands”, “Easiest Deal in the World”, “Better Terms than we have now”, etc. For these broken promises alone, there should be a vote to see if the public wish to accept what is currently on offer which is (a) No Deal; (b) Bad Deal; or (c) Remain if a majority have changed their minds.
Democracy is an ongoing process, not a single event and next March will be almost 3 years after the event - there is so much more information available regarding Brexit. It would be foolish not to take advantage of that info. Did anyone vote to be poorer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



During the campaign there was doublespeak, lies and dodgy stats emanating aplenty from Cameron,Osbourne and Co - in fact the presentation of information from both sides was appalling.

Politicians break promises, they lie, they do it all the time, it's nothing new - and if we were to rerun elections every time something dubious happens we'd wear out our shoes walking to the polling station every fortnight.

Having yet another referendum would make things much worse, our divided country would become a powder keg - anyway, it's not going to happen.

_________________
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 1016
Team Supported: Darlington
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
Brexit in any of its forms, but particularly No Deal or WTO terms, will be highly damaging to this country for generations. This wasn’t what was promised by Farage, Johnson, Fox, Davis, et al. “Sunlit Uplands”, “Easiest Deal in the World”, “Better Terms than we have now”, etc. For these broken promises alone, there should be a vote to see if the public wish to accept what is currently on offer which is (a) No Deal; (b) Bad Deal; or (c) Remain if a majority have changed their minds.
Democracy is an ongoing process, not a single event and next March will be almost 3 years after the event - there is so much more information available regarding Brexit. It would be foolish not to take advantage of that info. Did anyone vote to be poorer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



During the campaign there was doublespeak, lies and dodgy stats emanating aplenty from Cameron,Osbourne and Co - in fact the presentation of information from both sides was appalling.

Politicians break promises, they lie, they do it all the time, it's nothing new - and if we were to rerun elections every time something dubious happens we'd wear out our shoes walking to the polling station every fortnight.

Having yet another referendum would make things much worse, our divided country would become a powder keg - anyway, it's not going to happen.

Probably a couple of points from your post - this isn’t an election we’re talking about here, its much, much more important than that and it’s a decision this country has to make which would have wide-ranging effects for our nation for more than a generation.
And as you so rightly point out, politicians from both sides lied and made ridiculous claims, which is further ammunition to say that final Brexit decision should not be left with them to do as they please, but given to the people


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Posts: 3421
Team Supported: Darlington
The thing is Pete it was given to the people!

And that's the problem because "the people" made "the wrong" choice according to the EU (who have form in re running elections that didn't go to plan) and according to a wide selection of our politicians who can't see any further than their own cosseted lives, and who had ample opportunity to put things on a more even keel years ago regarding how people in this country have felt aggrieved by the way that the EU has changed in recent times.

I respect that you most probably have a different view over the referendum result than me, but the title of this thread isn't really about that, it's title is "Democracy under threat" and if another referendum is put into gear I think it will be - bad feeling in an already divided country will intensify and possibly worse.

_________________
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 1016
Team Supported: Darlington
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
The thing is Pete it was given to the people!

And that's the problem because "the people" made "the wrong" choice according to the EU (who have form in re running elections that didn't go to plan) and according to a wide selection of our politicians who can't see any further than their own cosseted lives, and who had ample opportunity to put things on a more even keel years ago regarding how people in this country have felt aggrieved by the way that the EU has changed in recent times.

I respect that you most probably have a different view over the referendum result than me, but the title of this thread isn't really about that, it's title is "Democracy under threat" and if another referendum is put into gear I think it will be - bad feeling in an already divided country will intensify and possibly worse.

Democracy is already under threat - it certainly wasn’t “given” to all of the people during the (advisory-only) referendum. Around 3 million British ex-pats were denied a vote, even though Brexit directly affects them. Not really democracy in any sense of the word.
The Leave campaign illegally overspent on the referendum campaign by £500,000 and were fined by the Electoral Commission and several people have been referred to the police for criminal activities.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 1.html?amp
Eventually, the Leave campaign had to be compelled to co-operate with the Electoral Commission to comply with requests for interviews and financial data after many prior refusals. Gove and Johnson headed the organisation responsible. Spending limits are there to make democracy fair and above board.
Data firms AIQ and Cambridge Analytica were beneficiaries of the overspend, micro-targeting voters through social media.
It may not be interesting to most but it makes a difference to how democracy is being manipulated and changed in favour of certain groups. When a people’s vote takes place - and I think it will - it would be under the most intense scrutiny ever. And hopefully concentrating on issues that affect our everyday lives - not just pathetic soundbites from the likes of Cameron and Johnson, Farage and Osborne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 8:54 pm
Posts: 56
Team Supported: Darlington
Darlo_Pete wrote:
I voted to remain in the EU and we lost the public vote. I think democracy is under serious threat if the result of that vote was ignored and another vote held. If that did happen, I would now vote to leave to make sure that that first democratic vote was upheld.




why would a communist vote for an exit from the communist European elite.. typical darlo pete


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Posts: 6286
Team Supported: Darlington
Darlo_Pete wrote:
I voted to remain in the EU and we lost the public vote. I think democracy is under serious threat if the result of that vote was ignored and another vote held. If that did happen, I would now vote to leave to make sure that that first democratic vote was upheld.


Agreed, and I'd like to add that we can never be truly democratic whilst remaining in the EU.

QuakerPete wrote:
Brexit in any of its forms, but particularly No Deal or WTO terms, will be highly damaging to this country for generations. This wasn’t what was promised by Farage, Johnson, Fox, Davis, et al.


Yeah but the Remainers never shut up about it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 1016
Team Supported: Darlington
DarloOnTheUp wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
I voted to remain in the EU and we lost the public vote. I think democracy is under serious threat if the result of that vote was ignored and another vote held. If that did happen, I would now vote to leave to make sure that that first democratic vote was upheld.


Agreed, and I'd like to add that we can never be truly democratic whilst remaining in the EU.

QuakerPete wrote:
Brexit in any of its forms, but particularly No Deal or WTO terms, will be highly damaging to this country for generations. This wasn’t what was promised by Farage, Johnson, Fox, Davis, et al.


Yeah but the Remainers never shut up about it.

I would rather we didn’t leave the future of this country to a bunch of chancers like these. Leave under any circumstances?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Posts: 10968
Team Supported: Darlington
They're now talking about Dublin having a different time zone from Belfast, complete bonkers.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 1016
Team Supported: Darlington
Darlo_Pete wrote:
They're now talking about Dublin having a different time zone from Belfast, complete bonkers.

Brexit is completely bonkers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Posts: 10968
Team Supported: Darlington
QuakerPete wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
They're now talking about Dublin having a different time zone from Belfast, complete bonkers.

Brexit is completely bonkers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So your saying that despite a democratic vote, which didn't go our way, it's completely right to null and void that referendum?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 1016
Team Supported: Darlington
Darlo_Pete wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
They're now talking about Dublin having a different time zone from Belfast, complete bonkers.

Brexit is completely bonkers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So your saying that despite a democratic vote, which didn't go our way, it's completely right to null and void that referendum?

Depends on your definition of democratic. If by that you mean 3 million British ex-pats denied a vote in the referendum - all directly affected by the result. Or the £500,000 illegal overspend by the Leave campaign.
Doesn’t sound very democratic to me - and that’s without delving deep into the various involved data firms, some of which are foreign, using illegally obtained personal data to target voters; or where the millions came from “donated” to Leave by Arron Banks.
And, of course, we must be the only country in the history of mankind which has voted to make ourselves poorer - as advised by just about every economic report since the vote, with WTO rules and No Deal being the worst of these methods.
Why can’t the public have their say on any final deal including an option to Remain if they feel what’s being offered is nothing like what was originally promised?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: avaibGime and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group