General Election 2019
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:08 pm
Ok here we go, looks like the green light will be given today for a General Election in December 2019, at long last.
The number one Darlington FC fan's website
https://www.darlofc.co.uk:443/forum/
https://www.darlofc.co.uk:443/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37921
More agreement between me and you here. The great irony is people like H1987 claim to be the virtuous, tolerant ones but spend their time insulting other people because they cannot construct intelligent enough arguments. It’s just vitriolic abuse.loan_star wrote:Well if you represent the standard of labour voters then I'm glad i wont be voting that way.
I'm surprised you didnt chuck "tory scum" in there for good measure along with "half wits" and "thick", since it seems Labour voters love to lower the tone like that.
Unlike you to put words in peoples mouths on hereDarlogramps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:12 pmMore agreement between me and you here. The great irony is people like H1987 claim to be the virtuous, tolerant ones but spend their time insulting other people because they cannot construct intelligent enough arguments. It’s just vitriolic abuse.loan_star wrote:Well if you represent the standard of labour voters then I'm glad i wont be voting that way.
I'm surprised you didnt chuck "tory scum" in there for good measure along with "half wits" and "thick", since it seems Labour voters love to lower the tone like that.
Let’s be blunt, the Labour Party is under investigation by the ECHR for suspected abuses towards people of Jewish faith. To say “Labour cannot be worse” when this is going on shows quite a lack of awareness.
Both parties are an absolute state at the moment and we aren’t heading for a good outcome either way. But I genuinely fear for our democracy and freedoms if the Corbynites get their hands on the levers of power.
Rationalise who you'd want as your local MP, i'd say. If you're in Darlington, it's got to be Jenny Chapman. She's not a Corbynista. I'm certainly no Corbynista myself either, but it's overwhelmingly obvious this lot need to go. I don't know how *anyone* can whip up fear about the prospect of a Corbyn government when you look at the state of the current mess. They blame everyone else for their own failings.theoriginalfatcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:25 pmIt’s an awful choice. From my experiences of the last few years I can’t bring myself to vote Conservative, however I feel that labour under it’s present leader would be a disaster. To me it’s Heads you lose/Tails you lose - and yet we’re all going to endure a seemingly endless stream of outlandish bullshit on TV, in the papers etc.
Where am I putting words in your mouth? You said anyone who votes Conservative is thick. I pushed back and disagreed. What’s your issue?H1987 wrote: Unlike you to put words in peoples mouths on here
Absolutely. Far more than I would trust the Corbynites. As I said previously, the Labour Party is currently under investigation by the ECHR for its treatment of Jewish people.H1987 wrote: You fear for peoples freedoms if 'corbynites' get into power? But you trust Boris Johnson with it?
I’m quite sick of lefties pretending they’re virtuous and tolerant, but handing out abuse to anyone who they see as a threat. It works both ways.H1987 wrote: I'm quite sick of Tories on the internet virtue signalling about civility, when they've spent years handing it out, laughing and mocking 'political correctness' and 'snowflakes'. I'm one of the more civil users of this board. You'd start an argument in an empty room. It's an opinion. It wasn't personal. It wasn't targeted at anyone in particular, but as usual, thin skinned right wingers can't handle what they've spent years handing out.
If you're so upset about me insulting readers of the sun, then i'm so terribly sorry, and can only hope you can get through this difficult time, you poor, sensitive little soul
Darlogramps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:05 pmWhere am I putting words in your mouth? You said anyone who votes Conservative is thick. I pushed back and disagreed. What’s your issue?H1987 wrote: Unlike you to put words in peoples mouths on here
Absolutely. Far more than I would trust the Corbynites. As I said previously, the Labour Party is currently under investigation by the ECHR for its treatment of Jewish people.H1987 wrote: You fear for peoples freedoms if 'corbynites' get into power? But you trust Boris Johnson with it?
Some of the Shadow Cabinet also indulge in threatening behaviour. See John McDonnell calling for Esther McVey to be lynched, as an example. There’s also Ian Lavery not facing any reproach, despite pocketing more than £100k, meant for sick miners and using it to pay off his mortgage.
See the Corbynites’ education policy being to shut down private schools and seize their assets, purely because they disagree with it.
And Corbynites and their outriders regular call for clampdowns on the media (see the plan to install Corbynites on the BBC board, calls to shutdown The Sun and Daily Mail).
So yes, I do genuinely worry about democratic freedoms under a Corbynite government.
Moreover, their economic ideas are, in my view, fundamentally immoral and will lead to the trashing of our economy.
I’m quite sick of lefties pretending they’re virtuous and tolerant, but handing out abuse to anyone who they see as a threat. It works both ways.H1987 wrote: I'm quite sick of Tories on the internet virtue signalling about civility, when they've spent years handing it out, laughing and mocking 'political correctness' and 'snowflakes'. I'm one of the more civil users of this board. You'd start an argument in an empty room. It's an opinion. It wasn't personal. It wasn't targeted at anyone in particular, but as usual, thin skinned right wingers can't handle what they've spent years handing out.
If you're so upset about me insulting readers of the sun, then i'm so terribly sorry, and can only hope you can get through this difficult time, you poor, sensitive little soul
Let’s take you as an example. You claim to be civil, yet you’re admitting to insulting all Conservative voters and readers of the Sun. And don’t hide behind “it’s an opinion”. All opinions are there to be challenged. I’ve never understood why people think their opinions have protected status.
A bit of consistency is what I’m after. All I’m saying is don’t claim the moral high ground when you’re launching personal attacks on people for thinking differently (and calling people thick is a pretty personal attack).
"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.
H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmThe Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
Jenny Chapman is useless she'll do anything Corbyn wants. Spoke to an ex the other day, she has voted for Labour in every election since she turned 18, which is over 40 years & she is going to vote Conservative for the first time at this election. Now if she's voting that way, Jenny Chapman is going to be looking for a new job a job before Christmas. In addition I was talking to a friend at footie last night of a similar age to myself & he has always voted Labour & he is going to vote for the Lib?Dem as they at least have a clear policy towards Brexit unlike Labour.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:58 pmRationalise who you'd want as your local MP, i'd say. If you're in Darlington, it's got to be Jenny Chapman. She's not a Corbynista. I'm certainly no Corbynista myself either, but it's overwhelmingly obvious this lot need to go. I don't know how *anyone* can whip up fear about the prospect of a Corbyn government when you look at the state of the current mess. They blame everyone else for their own failings.theoriginalfatcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:25 pmIt’s an awful choice. From my experiences of the last few years I can’t bring myself to vote Conservative, however I feel that labour under it’s present leader would be a disaster. To me it’s Heads you lose/Tails you lose - and yet we’re all going to endure a seemingly endless stream of outlandish bullshit on TV, in the papers etc.
Personally, I'll take a Labour government i have concerns about over a Conservative government hell bent on deregulation, shredding workers rights, selling off the NHS, and bending over for Donald Trump in desperation of a trade deal.
'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.
The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.
You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmThe Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.
"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.
As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
Totally disagree. She's not a cabinet member, is clearly more moderate, and is a good local MP. She fought tirelessly to keep hospital services open including A&E & intensive care, when the Tories wanted to shift a number of those services to James Cook. Anyone who has family and friends reliant on such services in the town should be extremely grateful for it (i'm certainly mindful of having ageing parents in town). If something happened to your family, would you want them waiting on a 30 minute drive to James Cook?? (plus no doubt an increased waiting time for any emergency service to arrive!?) No Tory MP would have done the same.Darlo_Pete wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:28 amJenny Chapman is useless she'll do anything Corbyn wants. Spoke to an ex the other day, she has voted for Labour in every election since she turned 18, which is over 40 years & she is going to vote Conservative for the first time at this election. Now if she's voting that way, Jenny Chapman is going to be looking for a new job a job before Christmas. In addition I was talking to a friend at footie last night of a similar age to myself & he has always voted Labour & he is going to vote for the Lib?Dem as they at least have a clear policy towards Brexit unlike Labour.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:58 pmRationalise who you'd want as your local MP, i'd say. If you're in Darlington, it's got to be Jenny Chapman. She's not a Corbynista. I'm certainly no Corbynista myself either, but it's overwhelmingly obvious this lot need to go. I don't know how *anyone* can whip up fear about the prospect of a Corbyn government when you look at the state of the current mess. They blame everyone else for their own failings.theoriginalfatcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:25 pmIt’s an awful choice. From my experiences of the last few years I can’t bring myself to vote Conservative, however I feel that labour under it’s present leader would be a disaster. To me it’s Heads you lose/Tails you lose - and yet we’re all going to endure a seemingly endless stream of outlandish bullshit on TV, in the papers etc.
Personally, I'll take a Labour government i have concerns about over a Conservative government hell bent on deregulation, shredding workers rights, selling off the NHS, and bending over for Donald Trump in desperation of a trade deal.
What are you going on about?H1987 wrote:'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.
The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.
You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmThe Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.
"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.
As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
Yes I have decided who I am voting for. The state of the current Labour Party means its a case of better the devil you know with Boris and the Tories.
Quizzical look. Do you have to vote for a "main party"?loan_star wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 pmGot to say its nice being on the right side of gramps for a change
Everything he has posted on this thread is 100% correct.
Yes I have decided who I am voting for. The state of the current Labour Party means its a case of better the devil you know with Boris and the Tories.
Plus the Tories are the only main party that has not tried to overturn a democratic vote on the EU.
As for Chapman, shes is tarred with the same brush as the Labour lot of DBC who were rightly voted out of power in the town after years of mismanagement.
Who is squirming exactly? You're illustrating the point quite nicely. Read posts in full next time, there's a good old chap. Perhaps step back and consider things like 'in general', it doesn't mean 'always' before you descend into one of your tedious rants. Or when I point out that Boris Johnson has not always been the leader of the Conservative Party, i may be suggesting that i mean 'on this occasion'. Which is a fairly significant clarification of the original point.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 amWhat are you going on about?H1987 wrote:'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.
The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.
You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmThe Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.
"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.
As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. The Conservatives are led by Boris Johnson.
Therefore by your own logic, you think anyone who votes for the Tories in December is thick. That’s not me putting words in your mouth. It’s simple logic. It’s what you said.
The reason you’re squirming so much is you’ve realised how hypocritical and intolerant you sound, despite preaching about your own civility. You won’t admit that because you don’t have the spine to do so.
But everyone else can see the mess you’ve got yourself into.
Unfortunately until they bring in PR then a vote for any of the main 2 (or 3 at a push) is a waste of a vote in the majority of constituencies.
So you were just being fundamentally dishonest then? Fair enough.loan_star wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 pmGot to say its nice being on the right side of gramps for a change
Everything he has posted on this thread is 100% correct.
Yes I have decided who I am voting for. The state of the current Labour Party means its a case of better the devil you know with Boris and the Tories.
Plus the Tories are the only main party that has not tried to overturn a democratic vote on the EU.
As for Chapman, shes is tarred with the same brush as the Labour lot of DBC who were rightly voted out of power in the town after years of mismanagement.
Nothing daft on my part, nor is there any faux-outrage. Again your ad hominem attacks betray the mess you’ve got yourself in.H1987 wrote:Who is squirming exactly? You're illustrating the point quite nicely. Read posts in full next time, there's a good old chap. Perhaps step back and consider things like 'in general', it doesn't mean 'always' before you descend into one of your tedious rants. Or when I point out that Boris Johnson has not always been the leader of the Conservative Party, i may be suggesting that i mean 'on this occasion'. Which is a fairly significant clarification of the original point.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 amWhat are you going on about?H1987 wrote:'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.
The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.
You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmThe Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.
"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.
As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.H1987 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pmAs for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. The Conservatives are led by Boris Johnson.
Therefore by your own logic, you think anyone who votes for the Tories in December is thick. That’s not me putting words in your mouth. It’s simple logic. It’s what you said.
The reason you’re squirming so much is you’ve realised how hypocritical and intolerant you sound, despite preaching about your own civility. You won’t admit that because you don’t have the spine to do so.
But everyone else can see the mess you’ve got yourself into.
I've already explained why i'm not being civil on this occasion, and i'm not really bothered about your faux outrage either. Here's hoping the country isn't as daft as you are. I'm fairly sure Darlington is not.