General Election 2019

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EDJOHNS
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by EDJOHNS » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:16 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:08 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:09 pm
Quizzical look. Do you have to vote for a "main party"?
Unfortunately until they bring in PR then a vote for any of the main 2 (or 3 at a push) is a waste of a vote in the majority of constituencies.
Both main parties wouldnt go for PR anyway so the chance of that changing anytime soon is nil.
Been having that discussion dating back to the 60's.

H1987
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:58 pm

Pretending you're on the fence about something when you've already made your mind up is dishonest... not that difficult.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:08 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:40 pm
H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 am
H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm


"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.

The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.

You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.



"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.

As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.



Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.

I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.



You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.
'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.

Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
What are you going on about?

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. The Conservatives are led by Boris Johnson.

Therefore by your own logic, you think anyone who votes for the Tories in December is thick. That’s not me putting words in your mouth. It’s simple logic. It’s what you said.

The reason you’re squirming so much is you’ve realised how hypocritical and intolerant you sound, despite preaching about your own civility. You won’t admit that because you don’t have the spine to do so.

But everyone else can see the mess you’ve got yourself into.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Who is squirming exactly? You're illustrating the point quite nicely. Read posts in full next time, there's a good old chap. Perhaps step back and consider things like 'in general', it doesn't mean 'always' before you descend into one of your tedious rants. Or when I point out that Boris Johnson has not always been the leader of the Conservative Party, i may be suggesting that i mean 'on this occasion'. Which is a fairly significant clarification of the original point.

I've already explained why i'm not being civil on this occasion, and i'm not really bothered about your faux outrage either. Here's hoping the country isn't as daft as you are. I'm fairly sure Darlington is not.
Nothing daft on my part, nor is there any faux-outrage. Again your ad hominem attacks betray the mess you’ve got yourself in.

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. Those are literally your words. Therefore, you think anyone who votes for the Boris Johnson-led Conservative Party in December is thick. There’s no alternative way of reading that.

This back-pedalling about talking generally is just deflection on your part. I’m challenging your specific assertion that “on this occasion”, the December election, you think Conservative voters are thick.
At no point have I said you were talking historically. Perhaps try reading posts properly next time.

Your words are clear for everyone to see but you won’t own them. As I said, the reason you won’t is because it demonstrates your hypocrisy and sheer idiocy to contradict yourself so quickly.

You can waffle, deflect and obfuscate all you like, but we all can read what you posted. It’s crystal clear obvious and now you’re trying to squirm and back-pedal. And it clearly does bother you otherwise you wouldn’t keep responding with ad hominem attacks.
I'm not the one back pedalling here, and i'm not in a mess. I've been really quite clear. You are the one tripping over yourself to be offended by it.

In one post you're calling the town's MP names, then you're feigning outrage when the tables are turned. You don't get to demand civility when you don't practice it yourself.

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loan_star
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:52 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:58 pm
Pretending you're on the fence about something when you've already made your mind up is dishonest... not that difficult.
Where did I say I was sitting on the fence? I’m very much on the conservative side of the fence when it comes to a choice between them and Corbyns labour.

Darlogramps
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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 pm

H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:40 pm
H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 am
H1987 wrote:
'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.

Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
What are you going on about?

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. The Conservatives are led by Boris Johnson.

Therefore by your own logic, you think anyone who votes for the Tories in December is thick. That’s not me putting words in your mouth. It’s simple logic. It’s what you said.

The reason you’re squirming so much is you’ve realised how hypocritical and intolerant you sound, despite preaching about your own civility. You won’t admit that because you don’t have the spine to do so.

But everyone else can see the mess you’ve got yourself into.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Who is squirming exactly? You're illustrating the point quite nicely. Read posts in full next time, there's a good old chap. Perhaps step back and consider things like 'in general', it doesn't mean 'always' before you descend into one of your tedious rants. Or when I point out that Boris Johnson has not always been the leader of the Conservative Party, i may be suggesting that i mean 'on this occasion'. Which is a fairly significant clarification of the original point.

I've already explained why i'm not being civil on this occasion, and i'm not really bothered about your faux outrage either. Here's hoping the country isn't as daft as you are. I'm fairly sure Darlington is not.
Nothing daft on my part, nor is there any faux-outrage. Again your ad hominem attacks betray the mess you’ve got yourself in.

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. Those are literally your words. Therefore, you think anyone who votes for the Boris Johnson-led Conservative Party in December is thick. There’s no alternative way of reading that.

This back-pedalling about talking generally is just deflection on your part. I’m challenging your specific assertion that “on this occasion”, the December election, you think Conservative voters are thick.
At no point have I said you were talking historically. Perhaps try reading posts properly next time.

Your words are clear for everyone to see but you won’t own them. As I said, the reason you won’t is because it demonstrates your hypocrisy and sheer idiocy to contradict yourself so quickly.

You can waffle, deflect and obfuscate all you like, but we all can read what you posted. It’s crystal clear obvious and now you’re trying to squirm and back-pedal. And it clearly does bother you otherwise you wouldn’t keep responding with ad hominem attacks.
I'm not the one back pedalling here, and i'm not in a mess. I've been really quite clear. You are the one tripping over yourself to be offended by it.

In one post you're calling the town's MP names, then you're feigning outrage when the tables are turned. You don't get to demand civility when you don't practice it yourself.
Again with the putting words in mouths thing. You really are quite the hypocrite.

I’m not offended by anything you’ve written, nor have I demanded civility anywhere. You’re going to have point that one out. Remember you were the one who claimed you were one of the more civil posters, before repeatedly hurling ad hominem attacks around. Like ‘anyone voting Tory in December is thick’. I think it’s only fair to point out your contradictions. But be as uncivil as you like with me, I couldn’t care less. It’ll kind of ruin your “I’m one of the more civil posters on here” shtick though.

I challenged you on your position because I, along with others in this thread, didn’t agree that voting Tory this election means you’re thick. That’s not “feigning outrage”, it’s merely expressing disagreement.

Again it says more for your lack of tolerance that you resort to that level of personal abuse. This one of the reasons politics is so horrendous at the moment. No one seems willing to countenance listening to alternative points of view. It’s all about attacking and denigrating people who don’t think exactly the same, as you so perfectly demonstrated by calling Tory voters thick.

And just to reiterate, you said in your own words anyone who votes for a Boris Johnson-led party is thick. So in your mind, current Tory voters are just that. Then when myself and others pointed out how that made you sound, you’ve squirmed, wriggled, obfuscated as much as you can to get out of your little bind.

Now I’ve pinned you down for the hypocrite you are, you’re dodging and deflecting as much as you can. No backbone, no courage, so disappointing. I had hoped for better but you’re too blinded by your own partisanship.

As for Jenny Chapman, the only thing I’ve called her is a careerist, and I’ve justified that. I don’t see why me calling her a careerist is so horrendously offensive and upsetting to you.

Remind me, how exactly is it anything other than careerism to go crawling back to Corbyn the minute he offers her a job, despite spending months telling everyone Corbyn wasn’t fit for office and should go? She saw which way the wind was blowing and protected herself.

And how is it principled to brand someone unelectable, to the extent you’d resign a shadow frontbench position, only to then campaign for him to be Prime Minister? Anyone with principles would have stayed on the backbenches.

She’s never given reasons for her volte-face, so it’s not unfair for me to point this out and raise these questions.
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Darlogramps
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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:53 pm

loan_star wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:58 pm
Pretending you're on the fence about something when you've already made your mind up is dishonest... not that difficult.
Where did I say I was sitting on the fence? I’m very much on the conservative side of the fence when it comes to a choice between them and Corbyns labour.
I’m also interested in where H1987 thinks you’ve pretended to sit on the fence. Can’t see it in this thread.

Doubtless he’ll duck the question and make you out to be the villain, as he repeatedly has in this thread.

I’m still waiting on A) where I defended the Sun newspaper; B) where I demanded civility; C) where I put words in people’s mouths or D) the supposed horrendous namecalling of Jenny Chapman.

No justified answers to any of those yet.
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:30 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:53 pm
loan_star wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:58 pm
Pretending you're on the fence about something when you've already made your mind up is dishonest... not that difficult.
Where did I say I was sitting on the fence? I’m very much on the conservative side of the fence when it comes to a choice between them and Corbyns labour.
I’m also interested in where H1987 thinks you’ve pretended to sit on the fence. Can’t see it in this thread.

Doubtless he’ll duck the question and make you out to be the villain, as he repeatedly has in this thread.

I’m still waiting on A) where I defended the Sun newspaper; B) where I demanded civility; C) where I put words in people’s mouths or D) the supposed horrendous namecalling of Jenny Chapman.

No justified answers to any of those yet.
The answers to all of those things are in this thread. I'm becoming increasingly aware that basic comprehension is not your strong point, so lets leave it here, shall we? Vote Johnson, get Trump. Your call, but don't expect civility for it :wave:

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loan_star
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:58 pm

H1987 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:30 am

The answers to all of those things are in this thread. I'm becoming increasingly aware that basic comprehension is not your strong point, so lets leave it here, shall we? Vote Johnson, get Trump. Your call, but don't expect civility for it :wave:
The answer to my question is not in this thread. You are making it up as you go along.

Darlogramps
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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:09 pm

loan_star wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:30 am

The answers to all of those things are in this thread. I'm becoming increasingly aware that basic comprehension is not your strong point, so lets leave it here, shall we? Vote Johnson, get Trump. Your call, but don't expect civility for it :wave:
The answer to my question is not in this thread. You are making it up as you go along.
The same Trump who just criticised Boris Johnson over his Brexit deal you mean? OK then. Hysterical simplistic soundbites, that’s all they are. That’s all you’ve got.

Like loan_star says, the answers aren’t in this thread at all. Given you can’t point them out, let’s assume they’re not here. If they were here, you’d be leaping on it. Nothing wrong with my comprehension, but there’s everything wrong with your woeful debating tactics.

So not only do you pretend to be civil, before attacking anyone who thinks differently to you, we can expose your hypocrisy and cowardice as well. You’ve had an absolute nightmare here, so it’s probably for your benefit if you do leave it.
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:54 pm

Talked to my 3 sons, oldest 25 & voted Conservative, middle lad voted Labour & youngest lad 19 who has never voted & they are all voting for the Conservatives. They all think Labour's policy on Brexit is bonkers & Labour's idea to nationalise everything is crazy. Labour are in big big trouble.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:55 pm

Politics of envy rearing its ugly head again, Corbyn says we shouldn't have any billionaires.
Dont dare get rich or successful under labour.

EDJOHNS
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by EDJOHNS » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:17 pm

I don't get people banging on about socialism. It never has and never will work because it is based on jealousy and spending other people's money.
Bottom line, if people with money are not prepared to invest then jobs dry up. Taxing them to death simply won't create enough regular income long term.
Every time I listen to what Corbyn will do when in power I wind up screaming at the TV "Where is the money coming from ?"

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:41 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:09 pm
loan_star wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:30 am

The answers to all of those things are in this thread. I'm becoming increasingly aware that basic comprehension is not your strong point, so lets leave it here, shall we? Vote Johnson, get Trump. Your call, but don't expect civility for it :wave:
The answer to my question is not in this thread. You are making it up as you go along.
The same Trump who just criticised Boris Johnson over his Brexit deal you mean? OK then. Hysterical simplistic soundbites, that’s all they are. That’s all you’ve got.

Like loan_star says, the answers aren’t in this thread at all. Given you can’t point them out, let’s assume they’re not here. If they were here, you’d be leaping on it. Nothing wrong with my comprehension, but there’s everything wrong with your woeful debating tactics.

So not only do you pretend to be civil, before attacking anyone who thinks differently to you, we can expose your hypocrisy and cowardice as well. You’ve had an absolute nightmare here, so it’s probably for your benefit if you do leave it.
Christ, your comprehension skills are abysmal. I've told you, explicitly, that i'm *not* being civil. Can you not read? Or are you just a bit dim?

Vote for Britain's Trump if you want. But that is what you are voting for, and don't expect civility for it.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:17 pm
I don't get people banging on about socialism. It never has and never will work because it is based on jealousy and spending other people's money.
Bottom line, if people with money are not prepared to invest then jobs dry up. Taxing them to death simply won't create enough regular income long term.
Every time I listen to what Corbyn will do when in power I wind up screaming at the TV "Where is the money coming from ?"
Yes, where as capitalism is a shining example for humanity. When is capitalism going to start working? Is it the next inevitable crisis it creates? Or the one after that? Or the one after that? (I mean, fair play to all the capitalists, they might actually destroy the planet entirely before people figure it out...)

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:I don't get people banging on about socialism. It never has and never will work because it is based on jealousy and spending other people's money.
Bottom line, if people with money are not prepared to invest then jobs dry up. Taxing them to death simply won't create enough regular income long term.
Every time I listen to what Corbyn will do when in power I wind up screaming at the TV "Where is the money coming from ?"
I also don’t see how you create a productive, healthy society when your economic policy is take money away from the most successful. Particularly when it comes wrapped up with demonising those in the best position to help others.

Right now, the wealthiest have never paid more tax than they are now. The figures are all there to prove it.

To me, rather than saying: “no one can be billionaires”, surely you say: “everyone can have the chance to be billionaires” and create the environment to allow people to succeed, not punish them by taking away their income.

The best way to be economically productive is to help all income levels increase while providing the environment to allow those who want to flourish do so.
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:58 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:I don't get people banging on about socialism. It never has and never will work because it is based on jealousy and spending other people's money.
Bottom line, if people with money are not prepared to invest then jobs dry up. Taxing them to death simply won't create enough regular income long term.
Every time I listen to what Corbyn will do when in power I wind up screaming at the TV "Where is the money coming from ?"
I also don’t see how you create a productive, healthy society when your economic policy is take money away from the most successful. Particularly when it comes wrapped up with demonising those in the best position to help others.

Right now, the wealthiest have never paid more tax than they are now. The figures are all there to prove it.

To me, rather than saying: “no one can be billionaires”, surely you say: “everyone can have the chance to be billionaires” and create the environment to allow people to succeed, not punish them by taking away their income.

The best way to be economically productive is to help all income levels increase while providing the environment to allow those who want to flourish do so.
How, exactly, does the current economic landscape, allow the lower wage earners to 'flourish' Tory boy?

I particularly love how Darlington is 'flourishing'. The empty shops, crippled social services, and rotting infrastructure really scream 'town on the up' to the average outsider.

Although, i suppose bits of the west end are nice.

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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:58 pm

H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:09 pm
loan_star wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:30 am

The answers to all of those things are in this thread. I'm becoming increasingly aware that basic comprehension is not your strong point, so lets leave it here, shall we? Vote Johnson, get Trump. Your call, but don't expect civility for it :wave:
The answer to my question is not in this thread. You are making it up as you go along.
The same Trump who just criticised Boris Johnson over his Brexit deal you mean? OK then. Hysterical simplistic soundbites, that’s all they are. That’s all you’ve got.

Like loan_star says, the answers aren’t in this thread at all. Given you can’t point them out, let’s assume they’re not here. If they were here, you’d be leaping on it. Nothing wrong with my comprehension, but there’s everything wrong with your woeful debating tactics.

So not only do you pretend to be civil, before attacking anyone who thinks differently to you, we can expose your hypocrisy and cowardice as well. You’ve had an absolute nightmare here, so it’s probably for your benefit if you do leave it.
Christ, your comprehension skills are abysmal. I've told you, explicitly, that i'm *not* being civil. Can you not read? Or are you just a bit dim?

Vote for Britain's Trump if you want. But that is what you are voting for, and don't expect civility for it.
More ad hominems, more selectivity, more obfuscation. Try deep breathing exercises, it’ll help you chill out more.

Here’s the point - you claimed to be one of the more civil posters on this board. Again your words, not mine.

You’ve then spent the entire thread insulting people because they disagree with you. You do see the contradiction in terms here don’t you? Regardless of whether you’re choosing to be uncivil now, you were the one who claimed to be “one of the more civil users of this board”.

My point, as made throughout this thread, is I don’t think it’s the case you’re civil and are choosing to be uncivil, as you’ve claimed. I think this thread his demonstrated you’re actually uncivil to begin with, as shown by your unprovoked ad hominem attacks on people you disagree with.

You are symptomatic of all that is wrong with political discussion. A thin-skinned hypocrite so wrapped up in his own self-importance and self-proclaimed morality, you can’t see the truth, which is you’re no better than the people you rail against.

And in what universe do you think being “uncivil” towards people you disagree with makes anyone more sympathetic to your cause? It’s why populists like Trump rise to power, it’s why Brexit happened - attacking people who listen to them doesn’t win them round to your point of view, it actually drives them further away. For instance, calling people concerned about immigration racists doesn’t make them stop with their concerns. All it does is drive them into the arms of people who do sympathise with them and there are so many examples of this. Farage, Germany’s AFD, Italy’s populist right which has been in power, the French Front National and Trump.

And if you think Boris Johnson’s politics is anything like Trump, you’ve really not been paying attention. If anything, Corbyn is more Trump-like.

He pits himself as the radical, fighting against the elite. He has a dubious record when comes to abuse of minorities (for Trump’s racism, see Corbyn’s anti-Semitism). He uses sensationalist campaign messages and made his political rise on the back of populism. He surrounds himself with ideological allies, rather than people who may challenge him. He maligns and berates the media for not parroting what he wants them to say. And, whether I like him or not, he’s tapped into a sense of injustice in people’s lives.

The Trump parallels lie more with Corbyn than an old Etonian who’s spent his life in the political elite.

And I’m no Boris fan, as a cursory glance through some of the pages here will tell you. I said he should have resigned after misleading Parliament and the Monarchy over prorogation. As a Brexiteer, I’m annoyed he went for an election rather than trying to pass his Brexit deal. His comments about Muslim women looking like post-boxes were dreadful.

Break away from being brainwashed by the far left and actually look up his political stances. He’s no Trump. Seriously, look it up and you’ll see he’s far more liberal than people make out. And out of the two genuine candidates to be Prime Minister, he’s better than the anti-semite Corbyn (and yes I do think Corbyn’s inaction on the issue makes him an anti-Semite).

Give me a half decent Labour leader and I’d happily consider voting for him over Johnson. But not a neo-Marxist, terrorist-sympathising anti-semite whose policies will crash our economy and further divide our society.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:58 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:21 am

H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:I don't get people banging on about socialism. It never has and never will work because it is based on jealousy and spending other people's money.
Bottom line, if people with money are not prepared to invest then jobs dry up. Taxing them to death simply won't create enough regular income long term.
Every time I listen to what Corbyn will do when in power I wind up screaming at the TV "Where is the money coming from ?"
I also don’t see how you create a productive, healthy society when your economic policy is take money away from the most successful. Particularly when it comes wrapped up with demonising those in the best position to help others.

Right now, the wealthiest have never paid more tax than they are now. The figures are all there to prove it.

To me, rather than saying: “no one can be billionaires”, surely you say: “everyone can have the chance to be billionaires” and create the environment to allow people to succeed, not punish them by taking away their income.

The best way to be economically productive is to help all income levels increase while providing the environment to allow those who want to flourish do so.
How, exactly, does the current economic landscape, allow the lower wage earners to 'flourish' Tory boy?
I’m more than willing to have a policy discussion about which approaches work for the country. I think there is a good discussion to be had.

But if all you’re interested in is hurling insults, I’m not going to bother. You can choose to throw insults around and let your partisanship take over. Or you can genuinely engage in a constructive, civil discussion.

Your choice.
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by EDJOHNS » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:02 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:51 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:I don't get people banging on about socialism. It never has and never will work because it is based on jealousy and spending other people's money.
Bottom line, if people with money are not prepared to invest then jobs dry up. Taxing them to death simply won't create enough regular income long term.
Every time I listen to what Corbyn will do when in power I wind up screaming at the TV "Where is the money coming from ?"
I also don’t see how you create a productive, healthy society when your economic policy is take money away from the most successful. Particularly when it comes wrapped up with demonising those in the best position to help others.

Right now, the wealthiest have never paid more tax than they are now. The figures are all there to prove it.

To me, rather than saying: “no one can be billionaires”, surely you say: “everyone can have the chance to be billionaires” and create the environment to allow people to succeed, not punish them by taking away their income.

The best way to be economically productive is to help all income levels increase while providing the environment to allow those who want to flourish do so.
It really frightens me when we agree.

The first political argument I ever had was when there was first talk of % wage rises way back in the early 70's.
I could never understand how people missed the simple fact that if you get a 10% raise on a wage of £10 and a raise of 10% on a wage of £100 you were just causing the divide to increase.
To partly answer the insulting comment from H1987 the first thing you need to do is get rid of the % wage rise and allow that nurses, doctors firmen, deserve a higher wage than a road sweeper. He can now have a go at me for being "anti union" which I proudly accept I am.
Last edited by EDJOHNS on Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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loan_star
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:09 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:21 am
I’m more than willing to have a policy discussion about which approaches work for the country. I think there is a good discussion to be had.

But if all you’re interested in is hurling insults, I’m not going to bother. You can choose to throw insults around and let your partisanship take over. Or you can genuinely engage in a constructive, civil discussion.

Your choice.
:clap:

Darlo_Pete
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:41 am

H1987 do you ever think your in a minority on this thread? It's a bit like the Labour party in this election. :lol:

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:30 pm

As above, give me a half decent Labour leader and I would very strongly consider to vote that way. However this time around this isn’t an option - but conversely Conservatives are awful too - some of the policies over the last 9 years have been unforgivable.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

Fat josh
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Fat josh » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:10 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:54 pm
Talked to my 3 sons, oldest 25 & voted Conservative, middle lad voted Labour & youngest lad 19 who has never voted & they are all voting for the Conservatives. They all think Labour's policy on Brexit is bonkers & Labour's idea to nationalise everything is crazy. Labour are in big big trouble.
Labour are a disgrace... Jenny Chapman is a anti democratic joke... She will be out of a job 13th December....
Darlington voted to leave and she is determined to stop that.
Boris wins
Labour will lose every leave constituency
Treasonous Lib Dems will do nowt as usual
Gonna love watching all the remoaner and so called peoples vote scum crying when we leave...

H1987
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:09 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:41 am
H1987 do you ever think your in a minority on this thread? It's a bit like the Labour party in this election. :lol:
Darlington hasn't had a Tory MP in nearly 30 years Pete. Who is the minority here? :lol:

H1987
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:10 am

Fat josh wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:10 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:54 pm
Talked to my 3 sons, oldest 25 & voted Conservative, middle lad voted Labour & youngest lad 19 who has never voted & they are all voting for the Conservatives. They all think Labour's policy on Brexit is bonkers & Labour's idea to nationalise everything is crazy. Labour are in big big trouble.
Labour are a disgrace... Jenny Chapman is a anti democratic joke... She will be out of a job 13th December....
Darlington voted to leave and she is determined to stop that.
Boris wins
Labour will lose every leave constituency
Treasonous Lib Dems will do nowt as usual
Gonna love watching all the remoaner and so called peoples vote scum crying when we leave...
I can't imagine why Brexiters get called thick :lol:

Darlo_Pete
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:01 pm

H1987 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:09 am
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:41 am
H1987 do you ever think your in a minority on this thread? It's a bit like the Labour party in this election. :lol:
Darlington hasn't had a Tory MP in nearly 30 years Pete. Who is the minority here? :lol:
As you well know I was talking about on here, not in the constituency.

Darlo_Pete
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:00 pm

I've struggled to find any betting odds for north-east seats, as it would be interesting to see which party are favourites for various north-east seats.

Fatty eats roadkill
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Fatty eats roadkill » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:38 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:17 pm
I don't get people banging on about socialism. It never has and never will work because it is based on jealousy and spending other people's money.
Bottom line, if people with money are not prepared to invest then jobs dry up. Taxing them to death simply won't create enough regular income long term.
Every time I listen to what Corbyn will do when in power I wind up screaming at the TV "Where is the money coming from ?"
Probably the same place the Tories have magicked it all up from lately!
Waiting for Raj to shaft them!

lo36789
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:45 am

Probably wait and see what the manifestos say...labour are waiting until close of play today to take feedback on theirs by the looks of it https://labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/

Sefton went from 53.8% labour in 2015 to 63% labour in 2017. I am not entirely convinced there will be much shift here.

There are sound bites coming out at the moment but need to see the full commitments made on environment, health and education.

I can't decide at the moment whether the Lib Dems remain stance will work in their favour or not.

Henley
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Henley » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:36 am

I’ve not read all of the stuff above - I’ll re-visit later but it looks
like H1987 is a prick . . .

Anyway, all I wanted to say is that for the first time in my life I’m genuinely envious of ‘Artlepool.

They’ve got Richard Tice running for MP there and he is a genuinely good bloke. Unfortunately, Darlington missed out by not being a God-forsaken s*** hole.

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