£25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

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Darlo_Pete
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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:53 pm

roadrunner wrote:Surprised we need these seats the way people talking on the website. Quite a few empty seats yesterday.
Gray is going through the motions trying to make a point that we need these outside investors in .
On another note why is the 50/50 prize over £400 can we not Capp it at £250 and put the rest into the ground.
The clue is in the name 50/50. If we did cap it then we'd have to call it the 75/20. :D

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:33 pm

Whether or not the seats are sat in we still need them to progress up the divisions. People may be disillusioned at the moment but that can soon change. MG seems as keen and passionate as ever to me and pretty frustrated at the moment.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:36 pm

Spyman wrote:
roadrunner wrote:Surprised we need these seats the way people talking on the website. Quite a few empty seats yesterday.
Gray is going through the motions trying to make a point that we need these outside investors in .
On another note why is the 50/50 prize over £400 can we not Capp it at £250 and put the rest into the ground.
If there were any substance to your second paragraph then Gray should leave immediately.

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But there isn't any substance - Gray would never do that - let alone the players.

Capping the 50/50 prize would be counter productive too. The prize is as big as I can remember, and that is a good thing as it benefits both the club and the lucky winner.
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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Quakerz » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:39 pm

divas wrote:I guess the main worry is that it's the segregated matches that cause the issue so even if and when we have a terrace at that end it will only benefit visiting teams and the darlo fans will still suffer from the same issues.

What we need for ground grading and what we need for a better experience are two different things which is very frustrating.
Why can't we (once the seated stand is extended) put a terrace on the same side - ie from the tin shed to where the pipe is? How much would a simple terrace 8 steps deep roughly 30 metres long cost? Surely not well into 6 figures? Surely not an amount that we can't raise next season?

Obviously you'd have a 15m gap between the seated stand and terrace which remains hard standing as we can't do anything there, but you'd have a reasonable size extra HOME terrace - get a fair few hundred fans in there. It would also increase the overall capacity by 2-300 as well.

Adding a bit of extra terrace there would improve the matchday experience for home fans.

My point is that the next work after the seats doesn't necessarily have to be the work required for category A, it can be intermediate work that benefits home fans.

THEN when we need to get to Category A (ie when promoted and can access further grant funding) do the work to bring the ground up to category A, which would involve putting a terrace at the other end and whatever else is needed.

I suppose we could even put some sort of barrier in that terrace to section it off should we need to segregate the match but don't want to give away fans the whole end which would hold 1,000+
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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by johnac52 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:45 pm

lo36789 wrote:
jonn wrote:I was surprised there wasn't a plea this summer to 500 Club members to pay for a further year's season ticket (taking us to 2020-2021? I've lost track). If half of us agreed it would raise an instant £50,000.
I am not sure 120 people will give £400ish each for a one year extension.
I'm with Jonn on this one. As a 500 club member, and having put in a fair amount for Stage 1 and Boost the Budget, I'm loath to put in more cash for what would amount to little more than a donation. However, I would be happier to purchase an extension to my Season Ticket, and I guess quite a few others would too. It's not easy to forecast what money might be raised this way as it would depend on how much is charged and how many adults/concessions take this up, but if it didn't raise the whole amount, it would surely go a good way towards it.
I understand and appreciate the argument about 'mortgaging the future' but there seems no point in 'saving for a rainy day' when it's pouring down now, and there's a hole in the roof!

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by al_quaker » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:58 pm

Quakerz wrote:
divas wrote:I guess the main worry is that it's the segregated matches that cause the issue so even if and when we have a terrace at that end it will only benefit visiting teams and the darlo fans will still suffer from the same issues.

What we need for ground grading and what we need for a better experience are two different things which is very frustrating.
Why can't we (once the seated stand is extended) put a terrace on the same side - ie from the tin shed to where the pipe is? How much would a simple terrace 8 steps deep roughly 30 metres long cost? Surely not well into 6 figures? Surely not an amount that we can't raise next season?

Obviously you'd have a 15m gap between the seated stand and terrace which remains hard standing as we can't do anything there, but you'd have a reasonable size extra HOME terrace - get a fair few hundred fans in there. It would also increase the overall capacity by 2-300 as well.

Adding a bit of extra terrace there would improve the matchday experience for home fans.

My point is that the next work after the seats doesn't necessarily have to be the work required for category A, it can be intermediate work that benefits home fans.

THEN when we need to get to Category A (ie when promoted and can access further grant funding) do the work to bring the ground up to category A, which would involve putting a terrace at the other end and whatever else is needed.

I suppose we could even put some sort of barrier in that terrace to section it off should we need to segregate the match but don't want to give away fans the whole end which would hold 1,000+
A good idea, and one which would improve things no end, but would we be able to afford it? We're struggling to afford the seats which are completely necessary. A terrace which isn't strictly necessary (although it is really needed) might be a struggle, and then would we simply be tapping into the same well who we will need to tap into again in order to build the main terrace behind the goal? It may be more beneficial long term to give the fans a bit of time off from having to raise substantial funds?

Of course, if the club could find a way to pay for a new small terrace, then that's different. Invest some cup money (apparently it exists)/cut the playing budget by 20k or so/do we need a reserve team which must be costing money? Difficult decisions.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Quakerz » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:04 pm

We need to find out how much it would cost to terrace that hard standing bit, first of all. What if it was only say 50k?

If we don't go up this season, then there would be no need to raise money for Cat A next season, maybe we could try then? Fans would have had time to recover from financing the seats.

Obviously further work for Cat A would be raised in a later season.
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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by al_quaker » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:13 pm

Quakerz wrote:We need to find out how much it would cost to terrace that hard standing bit, first of all. What if it was only say 50k?

If we don't go up this season, then there would be no need to raise money for Cat A next season, maybe we could try then? Fans would have had time to recover from financing the seats.

Obviously further work for Cat A would be raised in a later season.
True, but say we raise money for the seats this season, raise £50k for the bonus terrace next season, and then we also get promoted next season. Suddenly we've got to raise another £150k (or was it more?) to get Cat A. All from the same 300 or so people (unless we can get more people involved in fundraising). I wouldn't fancy the chances of us raising that money needed for Cat A after 2 solid seasons of fundraising for the seats and bonus terrace. All hypothetical, and all unknowns of course - we could be in this division for 5 years, which at least would make building infrastructure a lot easier!

I'm not sure 'the club' can keep asking for more and more money, at least in the short term. At some point alternative ways of funding ground improvements surely have to be found without asking the same small group of fans for money - the struggle to fund the seats is suggesting that that particular well is starting to run dry. Oh for a good FA cup run...

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:28 pm

johnac52 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
jonn wrote:I was surprised there wasn't a plea this summer to 500 Club members to pay for a further year's season ticket (taking us to 2020-2021? I've lost track). If half of us agreed it would raise an instant £50,000.
I am not sure 120 people will give £400ish each for a one year extension.
I'm with Jonn on this one. As a 500 club member, and having put in a fair amount for Stage 1 and Boost the Budget, I'm loath to put in more cash for what would amount to little more than a donation. However, I would be happier to purchase an extension to my Season Ticket, and I guess quite a few others would too. It's not easy to forecast what money might be raised this way as it would depend on how much is charged and how many adults/concessions take this up, but if it didn't raise the whole amount, it would surely go a good way towards it.
I understand and appreciate the argument about 'mortgaging the future' but there seems no point in 'saving for a rainy day' when it's pouring down now, and there's a hole in the roof!
I guess this is last case scenario to raise the money if we need to, problem is a renewal of the 500 club pays 20% of money raised to the taxman and kicks the can a year down the line.

However putting the money into the club via the share purchase means you get your money back (eventually) and the club pays it back over 25 years. It's not a donation although many like myself have largely seen it as that.

If we still have 1k DFCSG members would a call of £10 per member be any good, would raise 10k although the issue is not everyone would pay it as no way of making it compulsory. Also after paying £20 to renew it would be a tough call and probably impossible to make it compulsory in terms of membership.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by H1987 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:48 pm

Quakerz wrote:
divas wrote:I guess the main worry is that it's the segregated matches that cause the issue so even if and when we have a terrace at that end it will only benefit visiting teams and the darlo fans will still suffer from the same issues.

What we need for ground grading and what we need for a better experience are two different things which is very frustrating.
Why can't we (once the seated stand is extended) put a terrace on the same side - ie from the tin shed to where the pipe is? How much would a simple terrace 8 steps deep roughly 30 metres long cost? Surely not well into 6 figures? Surely not an amount that we can't raise next season?

Obviously you'd have a 15m gap between the seated stand and terrace which remains hard standing as we can't do anything there, but you'd have a reasonable size extra HOME terrace - get a fair few hundred fans in there. It would also increase the overall capacity by 2-300 as well.

Adding a bit of extra terrace there would improve the matchday experience for home fans.

My point is that the next work after the seats doesn't necessarily have to be the work required for category A, it can be intermediate work that benefits home fans.

THEN when we need to get to Category A (ie when promoted and can access further grant funding) do the work to bring the ground up to category A, which would involve putting a terrace at the other end and whatever else is needed.

I suppose we could even put some sort of barrier in that terrace to section it off should we need to segregate the match but don't want to give away fans the whole end which would hold 1,000+
I'm not sure how much non covered terracing costs, but it surely can't be that much. I do think we should do the end behind the goal first though, and have fences which can act as segregation, so home fans will always have access to part of it. (I'd guess a terrace which would run about 3/4 of the pitch would hold about 1,000, plus the away fans have the hard standing in the corner, so some sort of segregating fence in the middle would be key).

Something like this: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v-4XShfV9Dg/T ... 050555.jpg

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Darlopartisan » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:53 pm

Not really thought this through but the new seats when they are built have a value, so is there some way we could sell them as a seated season ticket for next season maybe with a discount (enough to encourage the uptake) with the bonus of using those seats for what's left of the season? This wouldn't impact on 500 club members in fact it would encourage more to get season tickets. I've rambled enough :D

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Quakerz » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:58 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Quakerz wrote:We need to find out how much it would cost to terrace that hard standing bit, first of all. What if it was only say 50k?

If we don't go up this season, then there would be no need to raise money for Cat A next season, maybe we could try then? Fans would have had time to recover from financing the seats.

Obviously further work for Cat A would be raised in a later season.
True, but say we raise money for the seats this season, raise £50k for the bonus terrace next season, and then we also get promoted next season. S
Obviously if we got promoted next season, then the work required to get to Cat A would be done the following season to be completed by 31st March that season. I've seen people mention 300-400k for that work, but we would be entitled to a further 150k grant money in the National League, leaving us to raise the rest.

So if we don't get promoted this season it would be...

This season - raise the remaining 60k to complete the seats.

Next season (if still in this league) - raise whatever we need, I'm guessing 50-75k (but could be miles out!) to terrace the remaining available area on the seated side.

The season after (only if we've been promoted) - raise what we need (minus new grant funding) to bring the ground up to category A standard, this would involve developing the open end.
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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by roadrunner » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:03 pm

How about a 200/250 seat club paying 500 pound each and you get the seat for 2 seasons.
Three of us would start it off

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:24 pm

Given that the fundraising for the seats appeared to have flatlined, and the chances of raising £25K in the next 19 days seems very remote, what do we do if we don't have enough money to build the extra seats?

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:34 pm

Yarblockos wrote:Given that the fundraising for the seats appeared to have flatlined, and the chances of raising £25K in the next 19 days seems very remote, what do we do if we don't have enough money to build the extra seats?
We either find a clever way of doing it or we accept we can't play in the play offs (Which we might not even make).

Hopefully we will get close enough to go ahead with the next stage.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by m62exile » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:30 am

All of the above assumes little or no increase in commercial revenue. Surely one of the priority areas has to be how we can supplement fan’s fundraising by developing this. We’re so used to direct fundraising since 2012 that it’s hard not to think of it as the only way, but most established clubs have some sort of dedicated commercial team. At some stage we must need to think of whether we’re ready to do this too.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by lo36789 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:02 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:Given that the fundraising for the seats appeared to have flatlined, and the chances of raising £25K in the next 19 days seems very remote, what do we do if we don't have enough money to build the extra seats?
We either find a clever way of doing it or we accept we can't play in the play offs (Which we might not even make).
But if the directors had told us by February last year we'd have had time to get the money together by April to pay for the seats remember...

Basically no excuses if we don't get it this time round. Simply put the means to pay for it hasn't been there so not much else could be done.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:26 pm

lo36789 wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:Given that the fundraising for the seats appeared to have flatlined, and the chances of raising £25K in the next 19 days seems very remote, what do we do if we don't have enough money to build the extra seats?
We either find a clever way of doing it or we accept we can't play in the play offs (Which we might not even make).
But if the directors had told us by February last year we'd have had time to get the money together by April to pay for the seats remember...

Basically no excuses if we don't get it this time round. Simply put the means to pay for it hasn't been there so not much else could be done.
If we had put the boost the budget into the seats, we would be 19k short.

Plenty of ways to get this over the line just depends how much we really want to, I have no doubt it will be done.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:50 pm

Third round, Old Trafford-sorted!!!

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Darlo_Pete » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:19 pm

don'tbuythesun wrote:Third round, Old Trafford-sorted!!!
We'd have to win a few games for that to happen and given our recent form in cup competitions, I think there is more chance of me winning the jackpot on the lottery this weekend.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by AndyPark » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:52 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
don'tbuythesun wrote:Third round, Old Trafford-sorted!!!
We'd have to win a few games for that to happen and given our recent form in cup competitions, I think there is more chance of me winning the jackpot on the lottery this weekend.
That's Darlo winning this weekend then.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by al_quaker » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:20 am

It's looking pretty much certain we aren't going to reach the £50000 from the fans alone. Are we going to lose those pledges?

If so, has it been considered (or is it even possible?) swapping pitches 2 and 3? There's many reasons why we've struggled to hit this target, but possibly one reason at this stage is that we seem so far away from achieving £50k that a £100 investment feels pretty futile.

We need to raise half the money in 17 days. Reducing that target down to £37000 (or even less if some SG membership money can be put towards it/we actually win a cup match and get some prize money - and put it towards infrastructure) might make it feel more feasible and then prompt a last minute push.

Of course, we'd then have 3 months to raise £50k, which is just pushing the problem further down the line. But at least we'd have a bit more time to sort that out and also potentially wouldn't lose any pledges

Oh for an FA cup run...

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by H1987 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:24 am

Even making the first round and drawing a decent league one side could make a big difference. Not to mention the 24.5k prize money we would accumulate by getting that far. That's a huge chunk of the stand paid for.

Christ, the conference nation sides don't even enter until the final qualifying round, so unless we are very, very unlucky and somehow end up with someone like York away, we should not be exiting the competition before then. I hope someone has told Gray how important it is. We should not be losing to South Shields, but right now, gotta say it's a possibility.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by al_quaker » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:37 am

I feel Saturday's game is one of our most important since 2012, for a few reasons. I'm sure the players and management will be trying desperately to win.

I don't really buy into this 'we haven't taken the cups seriously', certainly with regards to the FA cup. I may be wrong but I can't remember us ever putting out a weakened team like we used to in the Durham Cup for example. For some reason it's just not clicked (although I'd only really count last season as a shock. The season before that Hyde beat us twice in the space of a week so obviously had our number a bit, and the season before that we lost in a replay at a higher division team).

But anyway, a win on Saturday would be massive.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by quaker4life » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:10 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
If we had put the boost the budget into the seats, we would be 19k short.

Plenty of ways to get this over the line just depends how much we really want to, I have no doubt it will be done.
Name them.
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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Quakerz » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:04 pm

1) quaker4life to rent his arse out every night for the remainder of September.

Should raise £100 or so for the pot, easy.
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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:10 pm

quaker4life wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
If we had put the boost the budget into the seats, we would be 19k short.

Plenty of ways to get this over the line just depends how much we really want to, I have no doubt it will be done.
Name them.
If looking at all the pots we need 24k by 30th Sep and 37k by 31st December.

So immediate issue is 24k and then you have breathing space.
  • 1 - You could go 1 more year on 500 club this will raise the majority of what you require but kicks can down the road.
    2- Look to arrange short term loan whilst we continue raising the cash for stage 1, Directors and others have loaned the club before so we are not talking about going to a bank. We still raise the cash but extend deadlines if required.
    3 - Sell season tickets for next season now by bringing forward the early bird offer which would run out end of September. Again causes issues with next season.
Just a few ideas to get the seats in now, sure we could think of more. All of them can have an effect at some point to the club but depends how much we want the seats compared to kicking budget challenges down the road.

Also you have to remember we only need 24k now and then have 3 months to work on the rest, it's not all or nothing at this stage.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by Spyman » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:20 pm

Release a couple of players and use the ongoing savings over the season to pay off a short term loan. Avoids kicking the can too far down the road.

As above, loads of options, some more easily workable than others of course.

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by TDS » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:04 pm

FFS Spyman will you give it up about the playing budget, we all want our money to be pissed up the wall on Wheatley to sit on the bench OK? What is wrong with that?

We will find our level, whether the seats dictate that or the playing budget does.

I'm sure we can have an Uncovered whip around to stoke the fire? Usually a reliable bunch? Unless the most loyal know more? :think: :silent:

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Re: £25K Needed in the next 3 weeks

Post by m62exile » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:18 pm

Spyman wrote:Release a couple of players and use the ongoing savings over the season to pay off a short term loan. Avoids kicking the can too far down the road.

As above, loads of options, some more easily workable than others of course.

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Which uncontracted players do we have that would realise any significant savings?

And what about the reduction in revenue if attendances drop further once it's acknowledged we're writing the season off (there'd be no other interpretation to many).

It's not a simple problem, unfortunately.

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