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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
To be fair, Styche has now said on twitter that the gaffer has been told he has to cut the budget..


Maybe gates are lower than we budgeted for.


We're averaging 1400.

Given that the "base" budget was going to be 40% lower this season, then I can't really imagine that figure being set on more than 1400.

Perhaps commercially we are behind what we forecasted, as it's not just gate money that makes up income.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:13 pm 
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divas wrote:
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
To be fair, Styche has now said on twitter that the gaffer has been told he has to cut the budget..


Maybe gates are lower than we budgeted for.


We're averaging 1400.

Given that the "base" budget was going to be 40% lower this season, then I can't really imagine that figure being set on more than 1400.

Perhaps commercially we are behind what we forecasted, as it's not just gate money that makes up income.


:thumbup:


If your thumbs up indicates that I'm on the right track, then questions still need to be asked why we forecasted x amount of commercial income and it's only on course for y - it's not as if we don't have past seasons commercial revenue to draw experience from?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Thats quite possibly why we have brought in a commercial manager to sort this side of the club out.
Yes it will cost us for his services but he did a good job up at Durham CC so no reason why he can't do a good job here too, providing the rugby club play ball if he tries to sort things out like the piss poor catering for fans on match days.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:37 pm 
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How many of that 1400 are paying on the day?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:44 pm 
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If be utterly amazed if the financial position wasn’t better than any season previous - this is prudent financial control in my eyes. Budget forcasting is very tough when you are putting 100% of the surplus into the playing budget. Doesn’t take much to be off for gaps to open up.

Any outgoing where a few is involved will likely be driven by financial restrictions but that doesn’t mean there’s an immediate problem it’s a business decision that’s been taken between the management team.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:51 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Thats quite possibly why we have brought in a commercial manager to sort this side of the club out.
Yes it will cost us for his services but he did a good job up at Durham CC so no reason why he can't do a good job here too,


I can think of a good reason why he might not be able to do as good a job here and it doesn't even involve the rugby club...

Basically, Durham CC are a first class cricket club which has an excellent ground, and as such will be a far, far easier sell than Darlington FC who are a 6th tier part time local football club.

I hope he can do a great job but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if he thinks it's an impossible job a few months into his contract.

We've had various commercial people already who if memory serves me correctly were commission based, who never lasted. It must be like trying to sell ice to eskimos, trying to sell Darlington to anyone.

If this guy even covers his own salary, it'll be a triumph.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:52 pm 
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I thought that we were budgeting for no cup runs but for a crowd of between 1500 and 1700 which we just don't have. DJ has done the right thing in making sure that the finances are kept in line through the year, not just finding we are in the mire at the end of the season.

It could be that we budgeted for Caton having moved on, (he was not really included in the squad from the beginning of the season), while not sure how much he is getting but assume £300 per week, there is roughly £3k, also say a minimum of £7 to £21k down in gate receipts to date (based on say £10 per head). Then take in the aged debt we carried, I would think that we would have had to cut our cloth and taking the decision at the right time is just a sensible thing to do to ensure we do not get into debt again.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:52 pm 
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Should say Styche did a great job for us and wish him well, but he has looked off the pace just lately and it could be that is why he does move on so often as he needs new challenges to keep fresh?


Last edited by 50 years on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Also sick to death of hearing about all of these unexpected windfalls and where the money is. It was spent a long long time ago - way before those windfalls were realised. It’s a bloody good job they were too. What we’re seeing now is proactive handling of budget shortfall rather than burying heads in sand until it’s a critical issue. 3 years ago we were potless and signed Liam Hardy for a fee.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:58 pm 
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50 years wrote:
I thought that we were budgeting for no cup runs but for a crowd of between 1500 and 1700 which we just don't have.


No way have we budgeted for crowds of 1500-1700 IMO, given the size of the "base" budget, and also considering that for 2/3rds of last season gates were around the 1200-1300 mark.

It would just make no sense to budget based on a higher average gate than last season, and certainly if we had, the "base" budget would have been more than a 40% reduction on last season.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Thats quite possibly why we have brought in a commercial manager to sort this side of the club out.
Yes it will cost us for his services but he did a good job up at Durham CC so no reason why he can't do a good job here too,


I can think of a good reason why he might not be able to do as good a job here and it doesn't even involve the rugby club...

Basically, Durham CC are a first class cricket club which has an excellent ground, and as such will be a far, far easier sell than Darlington FC who are a 6th tier part time local football club.

I hope he can do a great job but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if he thinks it's an impossible job a few months into his contract.

We've had various commercial people already who if memory serves me correctly were commission based, who never lasted. It must be like trying to sell ice to eskimos, trying to sell Darlington to anyone.

If this guy even covers his own salary, it'll be a triumph.


It’s certainly going to be an interesting few months too see what can be achieved. Ultimately we’re buying his “black book” in the hope that he’s built a lot of connections and can pick the phone up, say I’m at Darlington FC and have a group of people who would be willing to put their faith in him because of past experiences

For me it’s a really exciting appointment as from what I can gather he will be working full time for the club. Despite having dipped our toe in with commercial managers on a commission basis I never thought that was enough to attract anyone with the proper credentials and contacts to be successful in the role.

I think it’s probably the first full time non football related role we’ve had in the club since 2012 and the scope it gives for the proper time and energy to be spent is massive. Obviously it needs to come off but we have to start looking at how we build revenue streams and if that means we have to invest some cash to realise more then that’s we need to do - it has risks but that’s business. Any small business expanding faces the same risks.

I’ve always said as a fan I’d rather put £1 into the club knowing that investment could be worth £2 rather than it only ever going to be worth £1


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
50 years wrote:
I thought that we were budgeting for no cup runs but for a crowd of between 1500 and 1700 which we just don't have.


No way have we budgeted for crowds of 1500-1700 IMO, given the size of the "base" budget, and also considering that for 2/3rds of last season gates were around the 1200-1300 mark.

It would just make no sense to budget based on a higher average gate than last season, and certainly if we had, the "base" budget would have been more than a 40% reduction on last season.


I do know that gates have been forensically looked at this season on a game by game basis dependent on opposition and the date of the game which hasn’t been the case previously when just using a general average figure from across a prior season. Still, it doesn’t make the process infallible and it only takes you to be 100 down on your prediction across the season and it’s a £20K gap.

Budget too low and you risk a team that isn’t good enough and crowds fall away as a result. It really is a fine balancing act. Have had just about zero cup revenue for 6 years in a row whilst not budgeted for also removes one of the key ways you can fill a bit of a budget shortfall.

It’s not all doom and gloom - we aren’t too far away off from a good chunk of 500 club money being available


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Last year from the AGM they had budgeted for 1700, this year from comments made at the various meetings it was set lower but sure it was not lower than 1500. Just mentioning what was said.
Ghost you may have more inside information than me, I am only mentioning what I heard by the various board members at the AGM's, may be my hearing was not good so bow to your addition knowledge.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:17 pm 
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TW very quiet this week and nothing from him post-match yet?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:32 pm 
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divas wrote:
It’s not all doom and gloom - we aren’t too far away off from a good chunk of 500 club money being available


When does the 500 club ticket end? Is it the end of next season? We are struggling because we are trying to fund the club on 400-500 paying fans.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
divas wrote:
It’s not all doom and gloom - we aren’t too far away off from a good chunk of 500 club money being available


When does the 500 club ticket end? Is it the end of next season? We are struggling because we are trying to fund the club on 400-500 paying fans.


Due to having to dip back into that same well multiple times the scheme will gradually phase out rather than end at the end of next season as originally intended. However it should be worth an extra £30K minimum in the first season, somewhere near the same again the season after. Essentially the boost the budget is plugging that gap at the moment


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:43 pm 
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whos our next hit man going to be more importantly ..


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:45 pm 
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divas wrote:
Also sick to death of hearing about all of these unexpected windfalls and where the money is. It was spent a long long time ago - way before those windfalls were realised. It’s a bloody good job they were too. What we’re seeing now is proactive handling of budget shortfall rather than burying heads in sand until it’s a critical issue. 3 years ago we were potless and signed Liam Hardy for a fee.


We even borrowed the money from someone to pay for it :shock:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:48 pm 
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ok.


Last edited by Seventynine on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
50 years wrote:
I thought that we were budgeting for no cup runs but for a crowd of between 1500 and 1700 which we just don't have.


No way have we budgeted for crowds of 1500-1700 IMO, given the size of the "base" budget, and also considering that for 2/3rds of last season gates were around the 1200-1300 mark.

It would just make no sense to budget based on a higher average gate than last season, and certainly if we had, the "base" budget would have been more than a 40% reduction on last season.


Rough average of 1,500 but as that is a mix of different type of £value such as Adult, Concession, Child, hospitality then if the mix moves a little the average would need to go up.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:04 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
divas wrote:
Also sick to death of hearing about all of these unexpected windfalls and where the money is. It was spent a long long time ago - way before those windfalls were realised. It’s a bloody good job they were too. What we’re seeing now is proactive handling of budget shortfall rather than burying heads in sand until it’s a critical issue. 3 years ago we were potless and signed Liam Hardy for a fee.


We even borrowed the money from someone to pay for it :shock:


That's scary, that we needed to borrow money to make a signing just cos Gray wanted.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
onewayup wrote:
Players come players go, stych no loss really.


No loss? [emoji38]

No matter what his form has been like this season, he more or less kept us up last season. Give the bloke some credit at least for doing that.
Typical Darlo fans slagging off the top scorer.
Agree with you (ugh, that makes me feel dirty).

Styche's goal record was 18 in 33, better than one in two. Anyone who thinks that's no loss is an utter moron.

I really don't get this need to slag off players when they decide to leave. We had the same with Turnbull.


Styche didn't decide to leave - he wanted to stay - and yes, he will be a loss.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:28 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
onewayup wrote:
Players come players go, stych no loss really.


No loss? [emoji38]

No matter what his form has been like this season, he more or less kept us up last season. Give the bloke some credit at least for doing that.
Typical Darlo fans slagging off the top scorer.
Agree with you (ugh, that makes me feel dirty).

Styche's goal record was 18 in 33, better than one in two. Anyone who thinks that's no loss is an utter moron.

I really don't get this need to slag off players when they decide to leave. We had the same with Turnbull.


Styche didn't decide to leave - he wanted to stay - and yes, he will be a loss.


Yes, I posted this before I read his message to fans. But the general point stands. Whenever a player leaves, we always get someone who posts that we're better off without them. It's weird.

Although I suspect Styche is fairly satisfied with the move, particularly if it involves less travelling and more money.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:08 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
To be fair, Styche has now said on twitter that the gaffer has been told he has to cut the budget..

OK, question time, why?

See told you...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:55 am 
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Hope that someone inserted a clause in his transfer that he must not be picked to play against us in this season. He would probably come back and knock a hat-trick in front of Tin Shed just to prove his point!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:33 am 
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Well at least he can't do that if it is Alfreton as they've already turned us over at BM. I guess we'll hear more this week...would like to know how the decision was arrived at/when it was taken/were we approached etc
Hopefully it is a case of prudence rather than a fire sale. Maybe it's neither


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:24 am 
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Yet again the question has to be asked, why are we in a position where we have to lose players because finances are tight? Surely we need to learn to budget far more conservatively instead of adding risk? If it means a shoestring budget then it has to be that rather than counting on 1400, why not a flat 1000 and zero cup runs?

It's painful but it's where we are as a club. We have reached this level way too quickly without adequate infrastructure or financial base and are paying the price for the club's appeasement of Gray with a blank cheque approach.

Definitely need a fans forum to discuss where we are and how to tighten up and move forward.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:57 am 
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Get this season done and things should get easier. We lose 2 'dead' wages in Collins and Caton. We also have the 500 club money which starts to come in again from next season (I think). We've appointed someone as commercial director to increase revenue. DJ in his excellent interview at the end of last season said we were well behind other clubs on the commercial front. The reality of being a fan-owned club is situations like this. TW put his neck on the block with 'his' squad. The implications of our poor start are coming home to roost. TW knows that if he doesn't deliver on the playing front then crowds go down.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:29 am 
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I don’t get some of this train of thought at all. It’s not like the club have come out and asked the fans for money or are burying their heads in the sand like previous years, they are pro-actively dealing with a forecasted gap in the budget by accepting a good offer for a player that cost us less when we bought him. I’d much rather this than the alternative we’ve faced in recent seasons. Of course you’d like to get the budget bang on at the outset but that’s not always possible for a number of reasons. The next best thing is you manage it from operational revenue which we’re now doing rather than by borrowing or not servicing debt as we’ve done in the past.

As long as you have the flexibility in the squad to do that - i.e. saleable assets. The alternative would have been to get rid of key high earners like Styche in the summer and face a relegation battle (cue the comments re: us being in one... I think everyone will accept that’s not solely down to budget)

The real disappointment amongst fans if they are honest isn’t the fact that we’re re-aligning our budget (like any prudent business should) but the realisation that we can’t compete in a regional league with decent sized crowds relative to our opposition. Many need to take a reality check of where we’ve come from and what we’ve had to spend to get to this point both on and off the pitch.

The creation of an academy and the appointment of a full time commercial director is the club’s attempt at developing new revenue streams rather than relying on gate receipts which have shown will never be enough to get where we want to get to.

We’re looking at a good few years of consolidation under this model, or if people are that impatient then the other option is one where we’ve been before and is the root cause of us of having to start from scratch in 2012.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:31 am 
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Vodka_Vic wrote:
Get this season done and things should get easier. We lose 2 'dead' wages in Collins and Caton. We also have the 500 club money which starts to come in again from next season (I think). We've appointed someone as commercial director to increase revenue. DJ in his excellent interview at the end of last season said we were well behind other clubs on the commercial front. The reality of being a fan-owned club is situations like this. TW put his neck on the block with 'his' squad. The implications of our poor start are coming home to roost. TW knows that if he doesn't deliver on the playing front then crowds go down.


Season after for the first lot of 500 club expires 20/21


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