Next season

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D_F_C
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Re: Next season

Post by D_F_C » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:41 pm

Lallacab wrote:
D_F_C wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:31 am
can't see that Alfreton would buy Styche for £££ and only give him a contract to the end of the season. He'll be signed up to the end of next season, which means we can't afford him.

Also, when people are looking at manager candiates, they need to include managers who can also run an academy. It's a 'must have'
Surely we could have an assistant manager or a coach who has the credentials and qualifications to run the academy?

In my opinion this is something the club needs to look at , would TW still be in a job if he wasn’t running the academy?
Either way, the management need that ability


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darlobaz791
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Re: Next season

Post by darlobaz791 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:46 pm

I’m not sure that we are that far off being a decent team. A goalie and a striker with a solid midfielder which looks like it could be Holness (and Palmer if we could get him back). Dreaming ...
Barts
Trotman
Jackson (loan)
Smith (loan)
Galbraith
Ainge
Nico
Holness
Styche?!?
Kneeshaw
Thompson

Elliot x2, Wheatley, Glover, Maddison

Letting go the others not mentioned and supplementing with academy and loans when needed.

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Next season

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:16 pm

As much as I would love to see Styche in a Darlo shirt again, and especially in the much more solid 4-5-1 formation which suited him - let's face it, it ain't happening.

We've fucked him off once before, he may fear we'd do it again half way through the season again. Once bitten, twice shy.
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

lo36789
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Re: Next season

Post by lo36789 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:32 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:19 pm
Yes we can. Martin Gray got us into the top five with a budget not massively removed from TW's this season. And if a manager as limited as Gray could do that, better managers certainly could at the very least make us competitive.
Is this right?

I thought Gray budget was threatened to be reduced by £80k (I am the messiah fans forum) subsequently we raised £40k in BtB that season to lift it. Remember we were comfortably in the bottom half when MG actually left the club - which he put down to reduced budget.

Then I thought there was another £80k reduction the following season - did we actually get the full BtB desired or not?

I thought we were operating at about £280k + BtB budget now versus £440k during Gray tenure. It’s surely at least a 20% - 25% drop regardless?

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Re: Next season

Post by onewayup » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:55 am

Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact, Tommy was brought in because of Grays overspending which was putting us in debt and we could not allow that, so he went, Gray did a great job while in charge but his petulance cost, and Wright was asked to operate on a much reduced budget from the start. So don't big Gray up he's proved since he left what he can do.

Darlo_Pete
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Re: Next season

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:30 am

onewayup wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:55 am
Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact, Tommy was brought in because of Grays overspending which was putting us in debt and we could not allow that, so he went, Gray did a great job while in charge but his petulance cost, and Wright was asked to operate on a much reduced budget from the start. So don't big Gray up he's proved since he left what he can do.
Agreed. I can't believe how some people think Gray worked at Darlo on a realistic budget. Tommy has always had to work within a reduced budget, he hasn't been able to go and get a player like Gray used to do.

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Next season

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:45 am

According to accounts player budgets were as below, *obviously 18/19 has reduced from starting point stated.

16/17 - 245k
17/18 - 351k
18/19 - 330k*

This suggests in Gray's first season he done extremely well to get us into a play-off position. However it also doesn't take into account management/staff wages or transfer fees coming in/out.

All in all at a rough guess is that Wright will have had a similar overall budget in 18/19 as Gray did in 16/17. So if anyone thinks Gray was spending 150k more than Wright or anything like that then you would be wrong.

This also doesn't take into account the Gray had built a team up for that first season, so spends were lower in theory and he then was given too big a budget for 17/18 and it went down hill from there.

I am no super fan of Gray and can't say I would want him back, but when I looked at the numbers it did show that he probably out performed Wright on a £ for £ basis, but you can argue it a few ways.

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Re: Next season

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:56 am

onewayup wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:55 am
Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact, Tommy was brought in because of Grays overspending which was putting us in debt and we could not allow that, so he went, Gray did a great job while in charge but his petulance cost, and Wright was asked to operate on a much reduced budget from the start. So don't big Gray up he's proved since he left what he can do.
What are the facts that Gray had a massive budget compared to Wright and he was overspending. He was spending the budget and no doubt pushing for more, of which we finally told him we had no more and he moved on to York.

The only facts I can see is that yes in season 17/18 Wright had to come in and wheel and deal to stop us running up more debt. The next season he was given a very good budget and largely failed.

al_quaker
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Re: Next season

Post by al_quaker » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:05 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:45 am
According to accounts player budgets were as below, *obviously 18/19 has reduced from starting point stated.

16/17 - 245k
17/18 - 351k
18/19 - 330k*

This suggests in Gray's first season he done extremely well to get us into a play-off position. However it also doesn't take into account management/staff wages or transfer fees coming in/out.

All in all at a rough guess is that Wright will have had a similar overall budget in 18/19 as Gray did in 16/17. So if anyone thinks Gray was spending 150k more than Wright or anything like that then you would be wrong.

This also doesn't take into account the Gray had built a team up for that first season, so spends were lower in theory and he then was given too big a budget for 17/18 and it went down hill from there.

I am no super fan of Gray and can't say I would want him back, but when I looked at the numbers it did show that he probably out performed Wright on a £ for £ basis, but you can argue it a few ways.
I guess in 16/17 we had the advantage of momentum from the previous season, but it still shows that that first season at this level we did well, and that the following 2 seasons we really haven't had value for money. It also makes you wonder quite how much some of our 'star' players were/are being paid!

AndyPark
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Re: Next season

Post by AndyPark » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:06 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:16 pm
As much as I would love to see Styche in a Darlo shirt again, and especially in the much more solid 4-5-1 formation which suited him - let's face it, it ain't happening.

We've fucked him off once before, he may fear we'd do it again half way through the season again. Once bitten, twice shy.
Disagreed there mate, he's obviously very keen on coming back from what I've read via DM's people have sent to him and how he conducts himself with Darlo fans. He never distances himself from the talk of coming back.

Just got this feeling that we'll go back for him in the summer.

JE93
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Re: Next season

Post by JE93 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:06 am

Don't see the need for all the comparisons tbh. In my boat TW has failed to deliver this season. There is nothing from last season or this that has proven to me that he can provide long term success to this football club on the pitch. It is his 3rd job in football management his record at any of those clubs isn't exactly sparkling.

He tends to fall upon tactics that work rather than us looking well drilled to play them. Last year it was the swap from 5-3-2 to 4-2-3-1 Which brought us success. He then spent most of the summer ignoring that formation and building a team to play 5-3-2. But then started the season 4-4-2. And has since used 5-3-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3. These lads train twice a week at best. And your asking them to master 5 different formations? With limited time do the basics right. Get fit in preseason. From then on the players should be doing their own fitness work and training should all be about maximising tactics. Pick a could of formations and drill them till players know their jobs. So much switching around is never going to help that. With Tommy you feel like you're forever trying to combat the opposition than do what we're good at.

The player recruitment this summer has been terrible. Which is odd because in the main. Other than an unfit Mills his signings last season were good. Money was spent on Ainge as a goal getter which hasn't materialised. Hughes wasn't fit enough to play midfield. Maddison has not been able to live up to his pedigree, Burn has been woeful. Henshall has been nowhere near consistent enough. This is brought into even sharper focus when you consider the players we let go durig the summer; Turnbull, Gillies etc. Who had proven they could compete at this level.

His work with the academy has been good. Him And AW seem to have put lots of work into it. But I do believe part of their remuneration is based on filling this role and it was part of them taking the job. On that basis is it that far fetched that someone else could do the same job? Not particularly.

For me he has shown a consistent inability to improve us over a period of time. It's a shame it hasn't worked out for either of them because they both seem like very nice blokes with the club at heart. But the club needs to start a fresh. Change of manager in the summer with an opportunity for them to meet the fans etc to build a bit of excitement along side the reboot of the BTB, could see us with fresh optimism for next season.

In my opinion we don't have to finish in the playoffs to have a good season and keep the fans interested we just have to be close enough that with 10 games to go Ginge comes on here and tells us we need to win 7 of our last 10 to have a chance. We might finish 6 or 9 points outside the playoffs but we'd all be talking about how we lost that game or that ref who should of given us a penalty etc. Exactly as we did last season when we finished 13th.

Leamington game don't come soon enough but hopefully afterwards we can have cause for optimism.

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Re: Next season

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:10 am

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:19 pm
Yes we can. Martin Gray got us into the top five with a budget not massively removed from TW's this season. And if a manager as limited as Gray could do that, better managers certainly could at the very least make us competitive.
Is this right?

I thought Gray budget was threatened to be reduced by £80k (I am the messiah fans forum) subsequently we raised £40k in BtB that season to lift it. Remember we were comfortably in the bottom half when MG actually left the club - which he put down to reduced budget.

Then I thought there was another £80k reduction the following season - did we actually get the full BtB desired or not?

I thought we were operating at about £280k + BtB budget now versus £440k during Gray tenure. It’s surely at least a 20% - 25% drop regardless?
Try getting hold of facts before you post.

See Super Les' post with actual figures. In our first season in NLN, Gray's budget was comparable to Wright's this season. Gray took us into fifth. And remember that involved us playing the first half of the season at Bishop Auckland (where attendances were lower).

Other factors involved of course, but on finances, some people are trying to make out 'plucky little Wright has overcome the odds to heroicly keep us in the division on a microscopic budget' when actually it's bigger than MG's two seasons ago.

And we were 11th when Gray departed by the way, but don't let facts get in the way of your anti-Gray agenda. We certainly weren't "comfortably bottom half".

Doubtless you'll waffle on a load of rubbish because you won't accept being wrong. But on both those points, you are wrong.

I'm no Gray fan but this rewriting of history some fans insist on because of their own dislike of him is beyond idiotic.




Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Darlogramps
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Re: Next season

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:17 am


onewayup wrote:Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact,
Nope. TW this season has operated on a comparable budget to Gray's first season at this level. Fact.

There are many factors involved of course, but TW in fact operated on a higher playing budget than Gray in 16/17.

It seems TW's budget was far more generous than any of us thought. The reason it was cut was because of his own incompetence and poor management (bad results and performances reducing attendances).

But simply, once again, the facts demonstrate you are wrong. You might not like it, but rewriting history and ignoring facts makes you look bad.



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Beano
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Re: Next season

Post by Beano » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:34 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:According to accounts player budgets were as below, *obviously 18/19 has reduced from starting point stated.

16/17 - 245k
17/18 - 351k
18/19 - 330k*

This suggests in Gray's first season he done extremely well to get us into a play-off position. However it also doesn't take into account management/staff wages or transfer fees coming in/out.

All in all at a rough guess is that Wright will have had a similar overall budget in 18/19 as Gray did in 16/17. So if anyone thinks Gray was spending 150k more than Wright or anything like that then you would be wrong.

This also doesn't take into account the Gray had built a team up for that first season, so spends were lower in theory and he then was given too big a budget for 17/18 and it went down hill from there.

I am no super fan of Gray and can't say I would want him back, but when I looked at the numbers it did show that he probably out performed Wright on a £ for £ basis, but you can argue it a few ways.
Gray’s legacy has been tarnished by his actions at the Fans Forum, public comments since, and the underhand way he left for York.

However, his teams always delivered on the pitch, and he only spent the budget he was given. He is still second behind Brian Little as our greatest manager of all time.

spen666
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Re: Next season

Post by spen666 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:40 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:17 am
onewayup wrote:Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact,
Nope. TW this season has operated on a comparable budget to Gray's first season at this level. Fact.

There are many factors involved of course, but TW in fact operated on a higher playing budget than Gray in 16/17.

It seems TW's budget was far more generous than any of us thought. The reason it was cut was because of his own incompetence and poor management (bad results and performances reducing attendances).

But simply, once again, the facts demonstrate you are wrong. You might not like it, but rewriting history and ignoring facts makes you look bad.



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Attendances are not down much, approximately 3% I believe (https://www.thelinnets.co.uk/turnstile.php?s=2017)

From the Netcafe, I think the biggest reason for the cuts in the budget were 2 mistakes ( over optimism ) by DJ. He budgeted for getting the legacy that is now delayed as estate has not been wound up, and for the profit from the 2 BMW cars. These two factors appear to be the biggest reasons for the cut in the budget.

That is not to say that TW (and the Board) spent the budget wisely. The board would have the final say on any proposed contracts offered by TW

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Re: Next season

Post by Quakerlad » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:49 am

The fact is that TW had a budget in the summer of £330k which was clearly a very good budget, and probably higher than most of us thought after all the messages around BTB of operating with a much lower one than previous seasons. Whether it was higher or lower than Gray,s doesn’t disguise the fact that he has severely underperformed on nearly every measure apart from setting up the academy!

Hopefully the board can see that the only way to give the club a boost and have any chance of raising optimism for a new season is for us all to get behind a new manager.

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Re: Next season

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:50 am

Attendances are down on what was projected, also pre-season did not generate anywhere near what was expected. You could guess at a deficit of 15k just for pre-season.

Darlogramps
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Re: Next season

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:54 am


spen666 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:17 am
onewayup wrote:Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact,
Nope. TW this season has operated on a comparable budget to Gray's first season at this level. Fact.

There are many factors involved of course, but TW in fact operated on a higher playing budget than Gray in 16/17.

It seems TW's budget was far more generous than any of us thought. The reason it was cut was because of his own incompetence and poor management (bad results and performances reducing attendances).

But simply, once again, the facts demonstrate you are wrong. You might not like it, but rewriting history and ignoring facts makes you look bad.



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Attendances are not down much, approximately 3% I believe (https://www.thelinnets.co.uk/turnstile.php?s=2017)

From the Netcafe, I think the biggest reason for the cuts in the budget were 2 mistakes ( over optimism ) by DJ. He budgeted for getting the legacy that is now delayed as estate has not been wound up, and for the profit from the 2 BMW cars. These two factors appear to be the biggest reasons for the cut in the budget.

That is not to say that TW (and the Board) spent the budget wisely. The board would have the final say on any proposed contracts offered by TW
You're basing the attendances compared to last season. In fact, a comparison with last season is wrong because it's not relevant.

I'm comparing it to attendances at the start of this season, and what DJ projected them to be, given this is what we base our budget on.

DJ is on record this season as saying attendances are lower than projected, with is the reason for the reduction. Our attendances since late 2018 have declined to 1200, which creates a gap in income, give DJ's projections were higher.

DJ listed those two items you mentioned, but I don't believe he said those were the two MAIN reasons for the cut.

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Re: Next season

Post by AndyPark » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:04 am

spen666 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:40 am
Attendances are not down much, approximately 3% I believe (https://www.thelinnets.co.uk/turnstile.php?s=2017)
This season we've averaged so far 1355, as opposed to last seasons average of 1457.

We still have 2 home games to come and if we can get an average of 1400/1500 in those 2 games, our figures will rise to 1364.

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Re: Next season

Post by onewayup » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:57 am

What will be will be, we have a very good board who know their stuff, if wright goes so be it, I agree he hasn't bought well with some of his signings and could have done better but Grays time at the club was totally different with a different board and circumstances. So comparing isn't right.

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Re: Next season

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:12 am

onewayup wrote:What will be will be, we have a very good board who know their stuff, if wright goes so be it, I agree he hasn't bought well with some of his signings and could have done better but Grays time at the club was totally different with a different board and circumstances. So comparing isn't right.
No one is comparing like for like, and everyone agrees Wright's circumstances have been different to Gray's.

But when people are insisting "Wright's budget was nowhere near Gray's" like you were, it's actually untrue, and needs to be corrected. And I'm getting fed up of the revionism and rewriting history when it comes to Gray.


And it's important because it demonstrates the extent of Wright's under-performance.

It's a blatant mistruth for people to try and make out Wright has been working off a tiny budget and has heroically kept us in the division against the odds (as people on this board have done). It's so untrue it's unreal.


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Re: Next season

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:25 am

Beano wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:According to accounts player budgets were as below, *obviously 18/19 has reduced from starting point stated.

16/17 - 245k
17/18 - 351k
18/19 - 330k*

This suggests in Gray's first season he done extremely well to get us into a play-off position. However it also doesn't take into account management/staff wages or transfer fees coming in/out.

All in all at a rough guess is that Wright will have had a similar overall budget in 18/19 as Gray did in 16/17. So if anyone thinks Gray was spending 150k more than Wright or anything like that then you would be wrong.

This also doesn't take into account the Gray had built a team up for that first season, so spends were lower in theory and he then was given too big a budget for 17/18 and it went down hill from there.

I am no super fan of Gray and can't say I would want him back, but when I looked at the numbers it did show that he probably out performed Wright on a £ for £ basis, but you can argue it a few ways.
Gray’s legacy has been tarnished by his actions at the Fans Forum, public comments since, and the underhand way he left for York.

However, his teams always delivered on the pitch, and he only spent the budget he was given. He is still second behind Brian Little as our greatest manager of all time.
Agree with the sentiment on Gray, but it's more complex than "He worked with the budget he was given".

Gray was enormously influential here, more so than any club at this level I can think of. He knew how to get his own way. We know on at least one occasion, he would have threatened to walk and needed to be bribed with the BTB to stay (post-Singh's flounce after the backlash against him).

He was, up until May 2017, incredibly popular with the fanbase because of the success he brought. Regardless of the money he spent, he still achieved the success. He knew the board, particularly an inexperienced one getting to grips with running a football club, couldn't take him on and trim the budget if they wanted to. Otherwise he could threaten to walk and cause uproar with the fanbase.

Imagine going to Gray at the height of his success and telling him to cut back. Not going to happen. After the South Shields FA Cup debacle, he wanted to rip up the squad again (I.E. spend more money) but the appetite within the fanbase was to start living within our means.

It's telling that as soon as Gray went, DJ moved to start cutting back the budget, which we couldn't afford.




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Re: Next season

Post by spen666 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:36 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:54 am
spen666 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:17 am
onewayup wrote:Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact,
Nope. TW this season has operated on a comparable budget to Gray's first season at this level. Fact.

There are many factors involved of course, but TW in fact operated on a higher playing budget than Gray in 16/17.

It seems TW's budget was far more generous than any of us thought. The reason it was cut was because of his own incompetence and poor management (bad results and performances reducing attendances).

But simply, once again, the facts demonstrate you are wrong. You might not like it, but rewriting history and ignoring facts makes you look bad.



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Attendances are not down much, approximately 3% I believe (https://www.thelinnets.co.uk/turnstile.php?s=2017)

From the Netcafe, I think the biggest reason for the cuts in the budget were 2 mistakes ( over optimism ) by DJ. He budgeted for getting the legacy that is now delayed as estate has not been wound up, and for the profit from the 2 BMW cars. These two factors appear to be the biggest reasons for the cut in the budget.

That is not to say that TW (and the Board) spent the budget wisely. The board would have the final say on any proposed contracts offered by TW
You're basing the attendances compared to last season. In fact, a comparison with last season is wrong because it's not relevant.

I'm comparing it to attendances at the start of this season, and what DJ projected them to be, given this is what we base our budget on
.

DJ is on record this season as saying attendances are lower than projected, with is the reason for the reduction. Our attendances since late 2018 have declined to 1200, which creates a gap in income, give DJ's projections were higher.

DJ listed those two items you mentioned, but I don't believe he said those were the two MAIN reasons for the cut.

Firstly, the budget is set before the season began, so DJ unless he is Mystic Meg could not have based the budget on attendances at the start of this season.

Secondly, DJ himself has said that previous seasons attendances were used to help set the budget


DJ would obviously want to blame the budget cuts on lower attendances because it diverts attention from his mistakes inincluding in the budget forecasts income that had not been received and was not certain to be received this season (the legacy and the money from the 2 BMW cars).


If its the case that the crowds being 3% lower than last season is the main cause of the budget shortfall, then you have to question what crowd levels DJ predicted and the basis for the gross over optimism on crowds compared to the historic evidence of previous season's crowds.

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Spyman
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Re: Next season

Post by Spyman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:39 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:17 am
onewayup wrote:Tommy, s budget was nowhere near Mr Grays fact,
Nope. TW this season has operated on a comparable budget to Gray's first season at this level. Fact.

There are many factors involved of course, but TW in fact operated on a higher playing budget than Gray in 16/17.

It seems TW's budget was far more generous than any of us thought. The reason it was cut was because of his own incompetence and poor management (bad results and performances reducing attendances).

But simply, once again, the facts demonstrate you are wrong. You might not like it, but rewriting history and ignoring facts makes you look bad.



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I don't recall the figures, but are we saying that Wright has had more to spend this season than was laid out last summer?

If so, the figure that was given once the BTB was raised was said to be enough to challenge for the play-offs. Both TW and DJ stated this.

While there are many factors that can lead to underperformance, are we actually saying that the total budget this season has ended up being better than a 'challenge for playoffs' budget? If that's the case (I may have misunderstood) then this season's performance is horrific!
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Next season

Post by onewayup » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:43 am

I will put my monies into the club again as I have for the last six seasons, it's our club and we must carry on with the funding and fundraising or lose our club which I don't want to see happen, ITS OUR CLUB SUPPORT IT OR LOSE IT,

Darlogramps
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Re: Next season

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:53 am

spen666 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:36 am

Firstly, the budget is set before the season began, so DJ unless he is Mystic Meg could not have based the budget on attendances at the start of this season.


Secondly, DJ himself has said that previous seasons attendances were used to help set the budget.
You might want to look up the word "projection". So actually, yes DJ does have to do a Mystic Meg routine.

Darlington don't have an Uncle Brad to throw millions at the club. We actually have to use money from fans through the door to fund our season. Obviously we don't know exactly what they'll be, which is why DJ and the board have to work out roughly what the attendances will be. And if they're lower than projected, he adjusts the budget accordingly.

Previous season's attendances will be part of his thinking. But it's not the sole factor. Anyone who thinks - we got X in 2017/18, therefore we'll get the same in 18/19 is a moron, as attendances fluctuate.

It's no surprise the idea of funding a club with attendance money causes difficulty for a Spennymoor fan.

DJ would obviously want to blame the budget cuts on lower attendances because it diverts attention from his mistakes inincluding in the budget forecasts income that had not been received and was not certain to be received this season (the legacy and the money from the 2 BMW cars).
Conspiracy theory with no evidence to support it.

DJ has admitted the two items you mentioned have caused an impact, but unless you know the precise value of them (which you don't), saying they're the main factors and that DJ is now covering it up to divert attention is a stretch. Pretty poor for such a respected member of the legal profession to be cooking up these accusations without a scrap of evidence to support them.

We have hard evidence of attendances declining through the season, which tallies with us needing to trim the budget.

So who to believe - DJ who has a plausible explanation, a good reputation with us and has kept the club on an even keel financially? Or a Spennymoor fan who lives down south, knows nothing about Darlington and is a known stirrer when it comes to Darlington? Tough one that.

Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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onewayup
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Re: Next season

Post by onewayup » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:23 am

what spen 666 is is a troll on darlingtons website a complete and utter nuisance, irritant know all who apparently knows nothing of any consequence to be other than what he dreams up, block the guy.

AndyPark
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Location: Darlington

Re: Next season

Post by AndyPark » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:25 am

onewayup wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:23 am
what spen 666 is is a troll on darlingtons website a complete and utter nuisance, irritant know all who apparently knows nothing of any consequence to be other than what he dreams up, block the guy.
Astounded why he hasn't been banned yet :crazy: :think:

quakerman
Posts: 149
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Re: Next season

Post by quakerman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:36 am

onewayup wrote:I will put my monies into the club again as I have for the last six seasons, it's our club and we must carry on with the funding and fundraising or lose our club which I don't want to see happen, ITS OUR CLUB SUPPORT IT OR LOSE IT,
Absolutely.Would have settled for where we are now when we cast our minds back to that day when Harvey Madden nearly called time on our club.We have a club to support thank god and just look at the teams at our level and the league above who have not experienced what we went through.Up the Quakers.


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spen666
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Re: Next season

Post by spen666 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:38 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:53 am
spen666 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:36 am

Firstly, the budget is set before the season began, so DJ unless he is Mystic Meg could not have based the budget on attendances at the start of this season.


Secondly, DJ himself has said that previous seasons attendances were used to help set the budget.
You might want to look up the word "projection". So actually, yes DJ does have to do a Mystic Meg routine.


Darlington don't have an Uncle Brad to throw millions at the club. We actually have to use money from fans through the door to fund our season. Obviously we don't know exactly what they'll be, which is why DJ has to work out roughly what the attendances will be. And if they're lower than projected, he adjusts the budget accordingly.

Previous season's attendances will be part of his thinking. But it's not the sole factor. Anyone who thinks - we got X in 2017/18, therefore we'll get the same in 18/19 is a moron, as attendances fluctuate.

It's no surprise the idea of funding a club with attendance money causes difficulty for a Spennymoor fan.
2.We will have a reduced budget for next season based on the current attendance profile. This is reality.


This is the opening statement from the directors quoted in the recent Netcafe



Shame that the Directors seem to be disagreeing with you
DJ would obviously want to blame the budget cuts on lower attendances because it diverts attention from his mistakes inincluding in the budget forecasts income that had not been received and was not certain to be received this season (the legacy and the money from the 2 BMW cars).
Conspiracy theory with no evidence to support it.

DJ has admitted the two items you mentioned have caused an impact, but unless you know the precise value of them (which you don't), saying they're the main factors and that DJ is now covering it up to divert attention is a stretch. Pretty poor for such a respected member of the legal profession to be cooking up these allegations without a scrap of evidence to support them.
You mean apart from DJ saying this himself at the netcafe... Is DJ making it up as well?
We have hard evidence of attendances declining through the season, which tallies with us needing to trim the budget. So who to believe - DJ who has a good reputation with us and has kept the club on an even keel financially, or a Spennymoor fan who lives down south and is a known stirrer when it comes to Darlington? Tough one that.

Get the chip off your shoulder. This is nothing to do with a comparison between the two clubs.

Its to do with the fact that an unrealistic budget was set. DJ himself has said all that I have said at various times over the season.

If you think a 3% drop in attendances is the cause of significant budget cuts, requiring the sale of several players to cut wages and bring in lump sumps in transfer fees, then you mustbe accepting that DJ got the crowd income massively wrong
From David Collinge



Based on the evidence from the last 2 seasons of football, do we have a figure in mind for average crowds for 2019/20 on which to underpin our financial forecasts? I fully appreciate the difficulties in calibrating these figures but would 1100 be about par?



David




Answer: Yes I would say 1100 is about right….obviously winning games attracts greater crowds but from a budget perspective we will be far more prudent this year
If you think setting budgets that are unrealistic, then having to sell star players to survive is good budgeting, then so be it.

If you think including in the budget income that is not realised or even certain to be realised in the season ( the legacy & the sale of 2 BMW cars the club don't even possess), then you are sleepwalking into further financial problems.
From Josh Egglestone

Hi all,

First of all thank you for your continued hard work behind the scenes and for organising this event to take on fans questions.

David - during the last netcafe you mentioned one of the reasons we were behind budget was that two commercial opportunities the club was expecting, had not materialised. Can you give any further details as to the nature of these opportunities, the level of income they represent and if/when they are likely to be realised?

Chris / David - we have seen that budgeting for next season is already underway. Most fans understand this incredibly difficult and we acknowledge sustainability is key. With that in mind, what are your current expectations for the budget next season in comparison to this in % terms?

Thank you again for your time and continued efforts.


Kind regards,


Josh
Answer

Hi Josh

The 2 issues in question were;
•A legacy payment via a will that unfortunately moved into probate and is currently going through process
•I was offered the opportunity to purchase 2 brand new BMW vehicles from sponsorship at a very low cost (these cars were on the golf pro circuit – the ones you see at the tees advertising the BMW brand) and then re-sell them to a BMW dealer at trade price. I was going to pay the cash on behalf of the club and then give the net receipts to the club.
We are still waiting on this but to be honest this opportunity may now have gone although they last contacted me 2 months ago to say the paperwork was progressing. I have discounted this now so any progress would be an upside.
This is nothing to do with interclub rivalry, it to do with looking logically and with an accounting mind at finances and budgets.


Even JW at the netcafe is accepting crowd figures were set at wrong level in budget
From Barry Thompson

Firstly, a huge thank you for all you do. Your hard work is massively appreciated.

My question relates to stability. It seems like Craig Morley and John Woolnough are excellent additions to DFC, with their input, do you think we will get to a place of a sound financial footing without having to strip the squad of our better players halfway through the season.

Barry Thompson



Answer from John Woolnough

We are focused on working within a sustainable framework.

Our efforts have been focused on increasing commercial income and reducing costs where appropriate.

We will be setting a tighter financial playing budget where we do not anticipate player transfers mid-season being forced upon us. Budgets will be prepared around different attendance levels with the final budget reflecting a cautious approach to the anticipated attendance.

If we see attendances increase or enjoy a cup run we will reinvest this money back into the playing budget







Anyway, I will leave it to you. If you want to continue with financial issues and reducing budgets then its entirely up to you.

If you were prepared to look objectively at what is being said and done, then lessons can be learned and mistakes avoided in future. It would be far better for everyone if monies raised by fans are used to further the club and help it advance, not to bail it out and keep it afloat


In the words of the Dragon's , "I'm out" on this debate

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