General Election 2019

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Darlo_Pete
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General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:08 pm

Ok here we go, looks like the green light will be given today for a General Election in December 2019, at long last.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:48 am

Looks odds on that it'll be December 12th. :thumbup:

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:52 am

Did you watch the debate Pete? Shocking.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:53 am

I watched some of it, but not all of it. I for one am excited by this election, I think Labour are in a mess with their Brexit policy. How can you say you'll get a better deal & then have a referendum & campaign to vote against their deal.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:47 am

"excited" Pete !!

Personally I'm absolutely sick to death of all these childish, 2nd rate, self centred politicians. To me you can count on the fingers of one hand those that are capable and genuine.

So now there will be five weeks of outlandish promises and mud slinging - just what we need at this moment of time.

Over the last 4 years nearly all these awful politicians have cooked up an utter shambles, so I for one won't be engaging - not that it makes any difference where I live anyway. :thumbdown:
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

H1987
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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:44 am

Jenny Chapman is one of the good ones. My seat down here is largely a foregone conclusion, but i'll be voting Labour nonetheless.

The Tory pitch to this election is essentially - 'lets do this crap deal, which will make our economy worse, and then spend even more money fixing the stuff we've been ruining for the last 9 years by shredding the funding for it'. It's basically admitting the last 9 years were an absolute con, and that we should vote for a proven liar to magically fix things.

Lets be blunt. If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick. If you don't like Jeremy Corbyn that much (and i don't either), you can at least see that things are a mess, and after 9 years it's absolutely no one else's fault. He cannot possibly be worse. In Darlington at least, it will be a two horse race, but it depends on which seat you live in as to whether you fancy the chances of the others. The entire pitch a few years ago was that Corbyn's a danger to the economy... how can that argument even hold any more? He's economically more stable than the conservatives and the disaster capitalist spivs controlling them.

Depressingly, I fully expect to be shouted down for this. Football is getting as bad as Rugby for having Daily Mail and Sun reading halfwits infesting the terraces.

Make it stop, time for change. Tories out.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:38 pm

Well if you represent the standard of labour voters then I'm glad i wont be voting that way.
I'm surprised you didnt chuck "tory scum" in there for good measure along with "half wits" and "thick", since it seems Labour voters love to lower the tone like that.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:06 pm

No one who is on the fence would be bothered by that comment. You'd already decided you were voting for them anyway. Drop the pretence.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:12 pm

loan_star wrote:Well if you represent the standard of labour voters then I'm glad i wont be voting that way.
I'm surprised you didnt chuck "tory scum" in there for good measure along with "half wits" and "thick", since it seems Labour voters love to lower the tone like that.
More agreement between me and you here. The great irony is people like H1987 claim to be the virtuous, tolerant ones but spend their time insulting other people because they cannot construct intelligent enough arguments. It’s just vitriolic abuse.

Let’s be blunt, the Labour Party is under investigation by the ECHR for suspected abuses towards people of Jewish faith. To say “Labour cannot be worse” when this is going on shows quite a lack of awareness.

Both parties are an absolute state at the moment and we aren’t heading for a good outcome either way. But I genuinely fear for our democracy and freedoms if the Corbynites get their hands on the levers of power.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:20 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:12 pm
loan_star wrote:Well if you represent the standard of labour voters then I'm glad i wont be voting that way.
I'm surprised you didnt chuck "tory scum" in there for good measure along with "half wits" and "thick", since it seems Labour voters love to lower the tone like that.
More agreement between me and you here. The great irony is people like H1987 claim to be the virtuous, tolerant ones but spend their time insulting other people because they cannot construct intelligent enough arguments. It’s just vitriolic abuse.

Let’s be blunt, the Labour Party is under investigation by the ECHR for suspected abuses towards people of Jewish faith. To say “Labour cannot be worse” when this is going on shows quite a lack of awareness.

Both parties are an absolute state at the moment and we aren’t heading for a good outcome either way. But I genuinely fear for our democracy and freedoms if the Corbynites get their hands on the levers of power.
Unlike you to put words in peoples mouths on here :roll:

You fear for peoples freedoms if 'corbynites' get into power? But you trust Boris Johnson with it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm quite sick of Tories on the internet virtue signalling about civility, when they've spent years handing it out, laughing and mocking 'political correctness' and 'snowflakes'. I'm one of the more civil users of this board. You'd start an argument in an empty room. It's an opinion. It wasn't personal. It wasn't targeted at anyone in particular, but as usual, thin skinned right wingers can't handle what they've spent years handing out.

If you're so upset about me insulting readers of the sun, then i'm so terribly sorry, and can only hope you can get through this difficult time, you poor, sensitive little soul :roll:

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:25 pm

It’s an awful choice. From my experiences of the last few years I can’t bring myself to vote Conservative, however I feel that labour under it’s present leader would be a disaster. To me it’s Heads you lose/Tails you lose - and yet we’re all going to endure a seemingly endless stream of outlandish bullshit on TV, in the papers etc.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:58 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:25 pm
It’s an awful choice. From my experiences of the last few years I can’t bring myself to vote Conservative, however I feel that labour under it’s present leader would be a disaster. To me it’s Heads you lose/Tails you lose - and yet we’re all going to endure a seemingly endless stream of outlandish bullshit on TV, in the papers etc.
Rationalise who you'd want as your local MP, i'd say. If you're in Darlington, it's got to be Jenny Chapman. She's not a Corbynista. I'm certainly no Corbynista myself either, but it's overwhelmingly obvious this lot need to go. I don't know how *anyone* can whip up fear about the prospect of a Corbyn government when you look at the state of the current mess. They blame everyone else for their own failings.

Personally, I'll take a Labour government i have concerns about over a Conservative government hell bent on deregulation, shredding workers rights, selling off the NHS, and bending over for Donald Trump in desperation of a trade deal.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:09 pm

Richmond is the safest Conservative seat in the country.

You could dress up a Warthog with a blue rosette and RESULT.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:12 pm

Jenny Chapman is hopeless, have you not seen her in the Houses Of Parliament? She'll do anything for a vote. I'm sure her time as an MP will have ended before Christmas.

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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:05 pm

H1987 wrote: Unlike you to put words in peoples mouths on here :roll:
Where am I putting words in your mouth? You said anyone who votes Conservative is thick. I pushed back and disagreed. What’s your issue?
H1987 wrote: You fear for peoples freedoms if 'corbynites' get into power? But you trust Boris Johnson with it? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Absolutely. Far more than I would trust the Corbynites. As I said previously, the Labour Party is currently under investigation by the ECHR for its treatment of Jewish people.

Some of the Shadow Cabinet also indulge in threatening behaviour. See John McDonnell calling for Esther McVey to be lynched, as an example. There’s also Ian Lavery not facing any reproach, despite pocketing more than £100k, meant for sick miners and using it to pay off his mortgage.

See the Corbynites’ education policy being to shut down private schools and seize their assets, purely because they disagree with it.

And Corbynites and their outriders regular call for clampdowns on the media (see the plan to install Corbynites on the BBC board, calls to shutdown The Sun and Daily Mail).

So yes, I do genuinely worry about democratic freedoms under a Corbynite government.

Moreover, their economic ideas are, in my view, fundamentally immoral and will lead to the trashing of our economy.

H1987 wrote: I'm quite sick of Tories on the internet virtue signalling about civility, when they've spent years handing it out, laughing and mocking 'political correctness' and 'snowflakes'. I'm one of the more civil users of this board. You'd start an argument in an empty room. It's an opinion. It wasn't personal. It wasn't targeted at anyone in particular, but as usual, thin skinned right wingers can't handle what they've spent years handing out.

If you're so upset about me insulting readers of the sun, then i'm so terribly sorry, and can only hope you can get through this difficult time, you poor, sensitive little soul :roll:
I’m quite sick of lefties pretending they’re virtuous and tolerant, but handing out abuse to anyone who they see as a threat. It works both ways.

Let’s take you as an example. You claim to be civil, yet you’re admitting to insulting all Conservative voters and readers of the Sun. And don’t hide behind “it’s an opinion”. All opinions are there to be challenged. I’ve never understood why people think their opinions have protected status.

A bit of consistency is what I’m after. All I’m saying is don’t claim the moral high ground when you’re launching personal attacks on people for thinking differently (and calling people thick is a pretty personal attack).
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:05 pm
H1987 wrote: Unlike you to put words in peoples mouths on here :roll:
Where am I putting words in your mouth? You said anyone who votes Conservative is thick. I pushed back and disagreed. What’s your issue?
H1987 wrote: You fear for peoples freedoms if 'corbynites' get into power? But you trust Boris Johnson with it? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Absolutely. Far more than I would trust the Corbynites. As I said previously, the Labour Party is currently under investigation by the ECHR for its treatment of Jewish people.

Some of the Shadow Cabinet also indulge in threatening behaviour. See John McDonnell calling for Esther McVey to be lynched, as an example. There’s also Ian Lavery not facing any reproach, despite pocketing more than £100k, meant for sick miners and using it to pay off his mortgage.

See the Corbynites’ education policy being to shut down private schools and seize their assets, purely because they disagree with it.

And Corbynites and their outriders regular call for clampdowns on the media (see the plan to install Corbynites on the BBC board, calls to shutdown The Sun and Daily Mail).

So yes, I do genuinely worry about democratic freedoms under a Corbynite government.

Moreover, their economic ideas are, in my view, fundamentally immoral and will lead to the trashing of our economy.

H1987 wrote: I'm quite sick of Tories on the internet virtue signalling about civility, when they've spent years handing it out, laughing and mocking 'political correctness' and 'snowflakes'. I'm one of the more civil users of this board. You'd start an argument in an empty room. It's an opinion. It wasn't personal. It wasn't targeted at anyone in particular, but as usual, thin skinned right wingers can't handle what they've spent years handing out.

If you're so upset about me insulting readers of the sun, then i'm so terribly sorry, and can only hope you can get through this difficult time, you poor, sensitive little soul :roll:
I’m quite sick of lefties pretending they’re virtuous and tolerant, but handing out abuse to anyone who they see as a threat. It works both ways.

Let’s take you as an example. You claim to be civil, yet you’re admitting to insulting all Conservative voters and readers of the Sun. And don’t hide behind “it’s an opinion”. All opinions are there to be challenged. I’ve never understood why people think their opinions have protected status.

A bit of consistency is what I’m after. All I’m saying is don’t claim the moral high ground when you’re launching personal attacks on people for thinking differently (and calling people thick is a pretty personal attack).
:roll:

Boris Johnson has not led the Conservative party for time immemorial. Nothing in the above post says 'anyone who votes conservative is thick'. That is you connecting the dots, and arriving at the conclusion you want so you can argue about it. It is a statement about current affairs.

The Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.

As for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.

As for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.

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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm

H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
Nothing in the above post says 'anyone who votes conservative is thick'.
"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.

The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.

You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
The Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.


"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.

As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.

I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:28 am

H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:58 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:25 pm
It’s an awful choice. From my experiences of the last few years I can’t bring myself to vote Conservative, however I feel that labour under it’s present leader would be a disaster. To me it’s Heads you lose/Tails you lose - and yet we’re all going to endure a seemingly endless stream of outlandish bullshit on TV, in the papers etc.
Rationalise who you'd want as your local MP, i'd say. If you're in Darlington, it's got to be Jenny Chapman. She's not a Corbynista. I'm certainly no Corbynista myself either, but it's overwhelmingly obvious this lot need to go. I don't know how *anyone* can whip up fear about the prospect of a Corbyn government when you look at the state of the current mess. They blame everyone else for their own failings.

Personally, I'll take a Labour government i have concerns about over a Conservative government hell bent on deregulation, shredding workers rights, selling off the NHS, and bending over for Donald Trump in desperation of a trade deal.
Jenny Chapman is useless she'll do anything Corbyn wants. Spoke to an ex the other day, she has voted for Labour in every election since she turned 18, which is over 40 years & she is going to vote Conservative for the first time at this election. Now if she's voting that way, Jenny Chapman is going to be looking for a new job a job before Christmas. In addition I was talking to a friend at footie last night of a similar age to myself & he has always voted Labour & he is going to vote for the Lib?Dem as they at least have a clear policy towards Brexit unlike Labour.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:37 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
Nothing in the above post says 'anyone who votes conservative is thick'.
"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.

The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.

You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
The Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.


"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.

As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.

I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.
'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.

Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:44 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:28 am
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:58 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:25 pm
It’s an awful choice. From my experiences of the last few years I can’t bring myself to vote Conservative, however I feel that labour under it’s present leader would be a disaster. To me it’s Heads you lose/Tails you lose - and yet we’re all going to endure a seemingly endless stream of outlandish bullshit on TV, in the papers etc.
Rationalise who you'd want as your local MP, i'd say. If you're in Darlington, it's got to be Jenny Chapman. She's not a Corbynista. I'm certainly no Corbynista myself either, but it's overwhelmingly obvious this lot need to go. I don't know how *anyone* can whip up fear about the prospect of a Corbyn government when you look at the state of the current mess. They blame everyone else for their own failings.

Personally, I'll take a Labour government i have concerns about over a Conservative government hell bent on deregulation, shredding workers rights, selling off the NHS, and bending over for Donald Trump in desperation of a trade deal.
Jenny Chapman is useless she'll do anything Corbyn wants. Spoke to an ex the other day, she has voted for Labour in every election since she turned 18, which is over 40 years & she is going to vote Conservative for the first time at this election. Now if she's voting that way, Jenny Chapman is going to be looking for a new job a job before Christmas. In addition I was talking to a friend at footie last night of a similar age to myself & he has always voted Labour & he is going to vote for the Lib?Dem as they at least have a clear policy towards Brexit unlike Labour.
Totally disagree. She's not a cabinet member, is clearly more moderate, and is a good local MP. She fought tirelessly to keep hospital services open including A&E & intensive care, when the Tories wanted to shift a number of those services to James Cook. Anyone who has family and friends reliant on such services in the town should be extremely grateful for it (i'm certainly mindful of having ageing parents in town). If something happened to your family, would you want them waiting on a 30 minute drive to James Cook?? (plus no doubt an increased waiting time for any emergency service to arrive!?) No Tory MP would have done the same.

I understand the Lib Dem position. I have friends who think similarly, but they simply can't win in Darlington (or my London constituency). Far better to have a Labour moderate than a head banging, right wing Tory obsessed with Brexit, and voting Lib Dem in Darlington is just making that more likely. It's not like a European Election where they have a chance.

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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 am

H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
Nothing in the above post says 'anyone who votes conservative is thick'.
"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.

The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.

You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
The Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.


"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.

As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.

I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.
'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.

Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
What are you going on about?

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. The Conservatives are led by Boris Johnson.

Therefore by your own logic, you think anyone who votes for the Tories in December is thick. That’s not me putting words in your mouth. It’s simple logic. It’s what you said.

The reason you’re squirming so much is you’ve realised how hypocritical and intolerant you sound, despite preaching about your own civility. You won’t admit that because you don’t have the spine to do so.

But everyone else can see the mess you’ve got yourself into.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:48 am

As for Jenny Chapman, she actually resigned from the shadow frontbench as part of the coup against Corbyn in 2016.

She spent all of that summer telling us Corbyn was unelectable. He wins the leadership challenge and she goes crawling back to him as soon as he offers her a job. And she’s now telling us the man she couldn’t support as Labour leader now should be Prime Minister? Work that one out.

She is a careerist who has no principles whatsoever and I sincerely hope she is out of office come December 13.

If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 pm

Got to say its nice being on the right side of gramps for a change :lol:
Everything he has posted on this thread is 100% correct.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:06 pm
No one who is on the fence would be bothered by that comment. You'd already decided you were voting for them anyway. Drop the pretence.
Yes I have decided who I am voting for. The state of the current Labour Party means its a case of better the devil you know with Boris and the Tories.
Plus the Tories are the only main party that has not tried to overturn a democratic vote on the EU.

As for Chapman, shes is tarred with the same brush as the Labour lot of DBC who were rightly voted out of power in the town after years of mismanagement.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by EDJOHNS » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:09 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 pm
Got to say its nice being on the right side of gramps for a change :lol:
Everything he has posted on this thread is 100% correct.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:06 pm
No one who is on the fence would be bothered by that comment. You'd already decided you were voting for them anyway. Drop the pretence.
Yes I have decided who I am voting for. The state of the current Labour Party means its a case of better the devil you know with Boris and the Tories.
Plus the Tories are the only main party that has not tried to overturn a democratic vote on the EU.

As for Chapman, shes is tarred with the same brush as the Labour lot of DBC who were rightly voted out of power in the town after years of mismanagement.
Quizzical look. Do you have to vote for a "main party"?

As the Brexit party went from non existent to being the largest party representation in the EU in just 6 weeks just maybe they are about to become "a main party"

Sadly having helped secure the vote to leave the EU, UKIP under NF people returned to their "natural" parties at the last election. I think many will remember that and be more determined to see it through this time round. The EU elections seem to support that thought pattern.
I am halfway expecting them to have the second largest return of MP's after we go to the pole. Won't that make them a "main party"

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:18 pm

I would like to venture the Brexit Party won’t reach double figures in terms of seats. In fact, if they get any at all, they’ll be doing well.

That’s all because of our voting system. UKIP in 2015 got four million votes but just one MP - Douglas Carswell who was a Tory defector with a strong profile in his seat anyway.

The idea the Brexit Party will be the second largest party is for the birds. And before anyone cites the Euro Elections, that’s under a proportional voting system, not a direct majority system as in General Elections.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:07 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 am
H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
Nothing in the above post says 'anyone who votes conservative is thick'.
"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.

The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.

You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
The Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.


"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.

As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.

I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.
'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.

Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
What are you going on about?

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. The Conservatives are led by Boris Johnson.

Therefore by your own logic, you think anyone who votes for the Tories in December is thick. That’s not me putting words in your mouth. It’s simple logic. It’s what you said.

The reason you’re squirming so much is you’ve realised how hypocritical and intolerant you sound, despite preaching about your own civility. You won’t admit that because you don’t have the spine to do so.

But everyone else can see the mess you’ve got yourself into.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Who is squirming exactly? You're illustrating the point quite nicely. Read posts in full next time, there's a good old chap. Perhaps step back and consider things like 'in general', it doesn't mean 'always' before you descend into one of your tedious rants. Or when I point out that Boris Johnson has not always been the leader of the Conservative Party, i may be suggesting that i mean 'on this occasion'. Which is a fairly significant clarification of the original point.

I've already explained why i'm not being civil on this occasion, and i'm not really bothered about your faux outrage either. Here's hoping the country isn't as daft as you are. I'm fairly sure Darlington is not.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:08 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:09 pm
Quizzical look. Do you have to vote for a "main party"?
Unfortunately until they bring in PR then a vote for any of the main 2 (or 3 at a push) is a waste of a vote in the majority of constituencies.
Both main parties wouldnt go for PR anyway so the chance of that changing anytime soon is nil.

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by H1987 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:09 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 pm
Got to say its nice being on the right side of gramps for a change :lol:
Everything he has posted on this thread is 100% correct.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:06 pm
No one who is on the fence would be bothered by that comment. You'd already decided you were voting for them anyway. Drop the pretence.
Yes I have decided who I am voting for. The state of the current Labour Party means its a case of better the devil you know with Boris and the Tories.
Plus the Tories are the only main party that has not tried to overturn a democratic vote on the EU.

As for Chapman, shes is tarred with the same brush as the Labour lot of DBC who were rightly voted out of power in the town after years of mismanagement.
So you were just being fundamentally dishonest then? Fair enough.

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General Election 2019

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:40 pm

H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 am
H1987 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
Nothing in the above post says 'anyone who votes conservative is thick'.
"If you vote for a party led by Boris Johnson, you're thick." - Your words.

The Conservative Party is led by Boris Johnson. Ergo, you're saying anyone who votes for the Conservatives is thick.

You're backpedalling now and trying to claim, well, I've no idea what you're trying to claim. I think you're trying to make out we're saying you're talking generally. But I'm certainly not. I'm challenging you on your "statement of current events" but seemingly you're getting yourself in a right muddle.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
The Labour Party, for whatever its flaws right now, favours a customs union, and likely single market access, with all the rules and regulations that entails. That is sensible economics. I'm sure you have an incredibly wordy and tedious argument about 'moral economics', but i've literally neither the time or patience to engage with it.


"For all its flaws." You describe being institutionally antisemitic as a "flaw" do you? OK then. Anyone who votes for Labour is siding with a bunch of corrupt anti-semites. Seemingly that doesn't bother you.

As for customs unions and single market access, I'm more than happy to engage in a debate on why this is problematic in the face of the referendum result. And why the consequent rule-taking from the European Union is bad for the country. More than happy to do so.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for being civil, i was referring to general conduct on this board. You're a constant walking argument in every single discussion. I largely stick to football on here, but on the subject of the moral high ground, i'm claiming none. Once again, you are placing words in mouths. However, let me reassure you whole heartedly that i'm not threatened by angry baby boomers with an internet connection.
Google the phrase Ad Hominem. It'll make you a better debater. I don't understand why people are so scared by me having a lot to say for myself, and being willing to defend myself. It's like people feel threatened by having someone push back at them, and not backing down so resort to trying to shame me into stopping. Well it's not worked once as we all know. I'm happy to challenge and debate and disagree with people. You either engage with the discussion or don't say anything.

I would also argue saying "I'm one of the more civil posters on this board" in the context of our discussion WAS an attempt at claiming the moral high ground. Quite a blatant one in fact. Yet you undermined this by making personal attacks on people, like calling them thick for voting for a party you just happen to disagree with.
H1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm
As for defending the sun, if you want to defend a newspaper that mercilessly attacked 96 dead football fans, or continues to attack every minority going when it suits their agenda, then fine, but stick your arguments about morality and civility where the sun doesn't shine.
You know that thing where you're kicking off about putting words in people's mouths, you're doing it right here. Another phrase for you to Google - hypocrisy. Kindly point out where I say anything remotely in defence of the Sun.
'Ergo' = therefore = you putting words in peoples mouths. Again.

Happy to help. I can't be bothered with the rest when you can't get the basics right.
What are you going on about?

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. The Conservatives are led by Boris Johnson.

Therefore by your own logic, you think anyone who votes for the Tories in December is thick. That’s not me putting words in your mouth. It’s simple logic. It’s what you said.

The reason you’re squirming so much is you’ve realised how hypocritical and intolerant you sound, despite preaching about your own civility. You won’t admit that because you don’t have the spine to do so.

But everyone else can see the mess you’ve got yourself into.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Who is squirming exactly? You're illustrating the point quite nicely. Read posts in full next time, there's a good old chap. Perhaps step back and consider things like 'in general', it doesn't mean 'always' before you descend into one of your tedious rants. Or when I point out that Boris Johnson has not always been the leader of the Conservative Party, i may be suggesting that i mean 'on this occasion'. Which is a fairly significant clarification of the original point.

I've already explained why i'm not being civil on this occasion, and i'm not really bothered about your faux outrage either. Here's hoping the country isn't as daft as you are. I'm fairly sure Darlington is not.
Nothing daft on my part, nor is there any faux-outrage. Again your ad hominem attacks betray the mess you’ve got yourself in.

You said anyone who votes for a party led by Boris Johnson is thick. Those are literally your words. Therefore, you think anyone who votes for the Boris Johnson-led Conservative Party in December is thick. There’s no alternative way of reading that.

This back-pedalling about talking generally is just deflection on your part. I’m challenging your specific assertion that “on this occasion”, the December election, you think Conservative voters are thick.
At no point have I said you were talking historically. Perhaps try reading posts properly next time.

Your words are clear for everyone to see but you won’t own them. As I said, the reason you won’t is because it demonstrates your hypocrisy and sheer idiocy to contradict yourself so quickly.

You can waffle, deflect and obfuscate all you like, but we all can read what you posted. It’s crystal clear obvious and now you’re trying to squirm and back-pedal. And it clearly does bother you otherwise you wouldn’t keep responding with ad hominem attacks.


If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: General Election 2019

Post by loan_star » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:18 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:09 pm
So you were just being fundamentally dishonest then? Fair enough.
What on earth are you on about? Where have I been "dishonest" in this thread?

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