Coronavirus and DFC

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by JE93 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:45 am

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:47 am
That was sent when Non League Paper leaked it. The Northern Premier League statement has come out since as they were still in the meeting.
It's an interesting one, clubs clearly worried about what the situation re contracts will be, imagine most will expire at the end of April. Clubs not wanting to commit to further spend without knowing when they can realistically expect income to start coming back in. Which begs the question if the season was to restart, what squads would everyone start with. The regular season transfer ban will start from the end of March which typically runs till the end of the first week in June. So in theory there would be no transferring of registrations till that re-opens, but nothing to stop players walking away from being out of contract.

For me personally, I would tend to agree with the Step 3-6 approach. Look to end the season now. Decide promotions and relegations on a PPG basis and give clubs a bit of certainty. But recognise there will be many who have the completely valid and opposite view.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 am

And it continues...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/footb ... ssion=true

These are obviously rumour until confirmed but definitely seems to be the way things are going.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:52 am

Bit of a mixed message in the article in one breathe says null and void but then goes on to say Barrow and Harrogate would be nominated for promotion.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:15 am

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:52 am
Bit of a mixed message in the article in one breathe says null and void but then goes on to say Barrow and Harrogate would be nominated for promotion.
Totally unfair if true. Teams would be relegated down to their present position in the league? This is completely unsporting, as we all know that seasons run until the final game, with twists and turns - good and bad form. And let's not forget, for every team going up there will be one going down*.

*Bury situation excluded.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Spyman » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:57 am

I don't understand the logic behind voiding this season or not finishing it.

Void next season, or shorten it. Then everyone starts out on a level playing field (except slopey spenny) and nobody can complain.

Either way, one season is voided or completed to different rules, so why does it have to be this season? Get this season finished in the autumn if necessary and then shorten the 20/21 season appropriately.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:20 pm

Spyman wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:57 am
I don't understand the logic behind voiding this season or not finishing it.

Void next season, or shorten it. Then everyone starts out on a level playing field (except slopey spenny) and nobody can complain.

Either way, one season is voided or completed to different rules, so why does it have to be this season? Get this season finished in the autumn if necessary and then shorten the 20/21 season appropriately.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by al_quaker » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:29 pm

I presume an issue is with part-time contracts being 40 weeks long and expiring at the end of April (I think?). If we could get things finished in May then I'm sure something could be sorted out. But what if it's August or even later before we can play football again? Will we be forced to keep the same players on for longer in order to finish this season with comparable squads? Or will the end of this season be played out with a completely different squad? Not easy questions to answer when you have clubs living hand to mouth. It's a bit different for elite clubs with 52 week contracts and multi-year deals.

For what it's worth, I think probably deciding this season on a PPG is the least bad option, but there's no ideal solution to this.

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Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:47 pm

Agree with al_quaker. Football won’t start until late April at the very earliest (and I suspect that is optimistic).

Which means if you were to restart, by the time you play the remaining 8-10 matches, plus play-offs, you’d be playing into at least June, perhaps July.

That’s potentially 2 and half more months of pay clubs will have to find, which for many isn’t feasible.

Shortening next season would also impact many clubs in terms of revenue I’d presume. Reducing the number of home games will see them with less money to pay essential bills, rents etc. And if there are fewer games, they won’t get as much from sponsorships either.

The longer this goes on, the more likely everything will be null and voided and we just go again next season, when in August hopefully all these restrictions will have been loosened, if not lifted altogether.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:47 pm

I think it all boils down to contracts (players and commercial) and budgets.

All our players are scheduled to be paid until April and then those on contracts for next year will behind to be paid again at the start of August.

There are also other commercial contracts. We have our time to play at BM on the first team pitch until the end of April and then from August onwards. Other clubs will have kits and sponsorships which start at the beginning of the new playing season.

Wouldn't surprise me if insurance and the like is equally only covered during the playing season.

The only precedent was the war. The season was null and voided but that was a lot earlier in the season than we are now.

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Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:53 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:52 am
Bit of a mixed message in the article in one breathe says null and void but then goes on to say Barrow and Harrogate would be nominated for promotion.
Totally unfair if true. Teams would be relegated down to their present position in the league? This is completely unsporting, as we all know that seasons run until the final game, with twists and turns - good and bad form. And let's not forget, for every team going up there will be one going down*.

*Bury situation excluded.
There are all sorts of issues to resolve. There’s the Step 4 restructure, there’s the EFL being down one team. What about new clubs like Bury AFC? Where do they go next season? There’s so much that would need sorting out.

And if they do decide to have promotion and relegation on PPG, clubs have to realise these are wholly unprecedented times. Yes it’s maybe unfair, but this virus is going to kill thousands of people, so perspective is needed. It’s not a good look for clubs to be complaining that everything isn’t perfect for them, particularly when there is no perfect solution.

I hope clubs look at the big picture rather than self-interest when the final decision is made.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Old Git » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:21 pm

Agree Gramps fans need to realise football related matters appear trivial at present.
Having played 3/4 of the season it seems reasonable to make decisions on the basis of PPG. Maybe not ideal but what is now right so hope there will be some agreement that it is the most practical way forward.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by al_quaker » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:24 pm

https://twitter.com/NonLeaguePaper/stat ... 66816?s=20

Looks like it wont be played to a conclusion

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:27 pm

Yes, I agree D.G. I agree with all that however there’s two things here to consider. This season, and next season.

I think we can all agree that at some point football will restart, so to me finishing what has been started (this season) trumps what may happen in the future (next season) - bearing in mind another shutdown could occur in the future.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by spen666 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:22 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:53 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:52 am
Bit of a mixed message in the article in one breathe says null and void but then goes on to say Barrow and Harrogate would be nominated for promotion.
Totally unfair if true. Teams would be relegated down to their present position in the league? This is completely unsporting, as we all know that seasons run until the final game, with twists and turns - good and bad form. And let's not forget, for every team going up there will be one going down*.

*Bury situation excluded.
There are all sorts of issues to resolve. There’s the Step 4 restructure, there’s the EFL being down one team. What about new clubs like Bury AFC? Where do they go next season? There’s so much that would need sorting out.

And if they do decide to have promotion and relegation on PPG, clubs have to realise these are wholly unprecedented times. Yes it’s maybe unfair, but this virus is going to kill thousands of people, so perspective is needed. It’s not a good look for clubs to be complaining that everything isn’t perfect for them, particularly when there is no perfect solution.

I hope clubs look at the big picture rather than self-interest when the final decision is made.


Couldn't agree more.

I would add that its better to try to only have one disrupted/ disjointed season than affect next season as well. Lets get back to normal as soon as possible ie next season, not have 2020/21 season disrupted as well be being delayed/ truncated/ odd numbers of teams etc.

What is happening now is exceptional and unprecedented in English sport. Some clubs may be worse off, some better off, but there is no perfect solution as every suggested solution raises issues

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:29 pm

But Spen, if Spennymoor were top of the league? A once in a generation chance of taking their superb perimeter fence up to the Holy Grail of The National League.

Be honest now .....
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by spen666 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:32 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:29 pm
But Spen, if Spennymoor were top of the league? A once in a generation chance of taking their superb perimeter fence up to the Holy Grail of The National League.

Be honest now .....

I am being honest. As things stand now, Spennymoor are in play off position...therefore they still have a chance of promotion.

I still support ending season now, using PPG and promote automatically top 2 teams (no play offs). This would deny Spennymoor any prospect of promotion but its the right thing to do

Its not about my club or your club, its about the good of the game.

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Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:41 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:But Spen, if Spennymoor were top of the league? A once in a generation chance of taking their superb perimeter fence up to the Holy Grail of The National League.

Be honest now .....
I would say complaining about that in these circumstances is a little selfish and wouldn’t look good for the club.

It’s immensely frustrating for many sides who will miss out on going up. But as I said, it’s not as if it’s through a grand conspiracy. This is a global health emergency, the like of which we haven’t seen in our lifetimes, and hopefully never will again.

I really think it’s a case of you have to take it on the chin and go again next season. Anything else is all a bit insensitive and lacking perspective.

And that’s before the obvious financial implications of extending this season and disrupting the next.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:44 pm

I'm just tickling Spen's ribs.

Meanwhile Raj has started sacking people apparently. Who'd have thought he would be first to trap?
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by onewayup » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:56 pm

The only way is to void this season, start afresh next season every team on level playing field,
Far to many equations if it's carried on ,which will have certain clubs taking the ruling bodies through the judicial system to attain what they believe they should have,
END IT NOW FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME, THIS IS ABOUT STAYING ALIVE, THE SOONER EVERYONE KNOWS IT IS DONE FOR THIS SEASON THE SOONER CLUBS CAN START TO FORMULATE FOR NEXT SEASON.
WHICH WILL GIVE EVERYONE FANS AND CLUBS THE BEST POSSIBLE CHANCE OF SURVIVAL,
THIS MIGHT /MIGHT NOT RESTART ISN'T DOING ANYONE ANY FAVOURS.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Mister e » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:33 pm

No matter what decision is made at any level barrow must replace bury in the football league no arguments there. Also like I said a few weeks ago if the season is null and voided surely poor thommo reverts back to 94 goals and we didn't have a cup run after all.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by JE93 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:58 pm

Mister e wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:33 pm
No matter what decision is made at any level barrow must replace bury in the football league no arguments there. Also like I said a few weeks ago if the season is null and voided surely poor thommo reverts back to 94 goals and we didn't have a cup run after all.
Interesting one, the Yeovil Chairman has given an interview saying he's asked his lawyers to look into the question 'If the season is null and voided, would they by due another round of parachute payments from the FL?' as it would be as if this season had never happened. As Mr E says that would also have an effect on the likes of Thommo and his goal record etc. So many questions to be answered in all these scenarios, don't envy those having to make the decision.

As I said above for me finishing the season on a points per game basis and allowing the best performing clubs to be promoted and the worst to be relegated, is the best of a bad bunch of solutions. Give clubs the certainty early and allow them to start to prepare for a full 20/21 season even if it has to be started a little later.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:05 pm

Looks like the s*** is starting to hit the fan at Kings Lynn, whatever league they end up in. They have been spending well beyond their means and their dodgy chairman has been providing "loans" to the club but says he can't absorb all of the latest £100,000 shortfall that the club is facing. He has already said he won't be propping the club up beyond this season.

Now he's clearly got it in for the club's Supporters Trust who are reluctant to just hand over a wedge without conditions.... there's clearly suspicion and a lack of trust on both sides. I don't think this will end well.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by jjljks » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:58 am

Looks like the lawyers will be the only ones to come out of Covid19 with money in their pockets. No doubt there are subtle nuances and differences between "voided / anulled / furloughed / terminated" etc that will affect club finances. Really need FA & Leagues to get their fingers out, make some very hard decisions quickly as clubs need clarity to plan for future season.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by spen666 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:34 am

jjljks wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:58 am
Looks like the lawyers will be the only ones to come out of Covid19 with money in their pockets. No doubt there are subtle nuances and differences between "voided / anulled / furloughed / terminated" etc that will affect club finances. Really need FA & Leagues to get their fingers out, make some very hard decisions quickly as clubs need clarity to plan for future season.
my understanding is if something is voided its as though it never happened - goals scored wiped out, disciplinary records and fines annulled etc. Wonder where that leave players bonuses based on points, goals scored etc

If it is annulled, goals, disciplinary etc remain, but effectively league season is left incomplete

In reporting and discussions on social media these two terms seem to be used interchangeably even though they have very different legal meaning

The whole situation is very unfortunate and I would hope that clubs don't rush to lawyers ( Wishful thinking on my part I suspect) and the courts recognise that a pragmatic approach is needed to resolve this issue. Desperate situations call for unusual methods to resolve matters

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by H1987 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:06 am

I honestly believe there will be a strong desire for us to complete the season, and for that reason, there will not be a decision anytime soon.

That said, I can't see practically how the season can continue after the end of June due to the end of players contracts and loan contracts. Some teams are bound to be more heavily affected by those circumstances than others, and the sporting integrity goes out of the window if completely different teams end up finishing the season. I really don't see how you can promote and relegate anyone if the season is not completed. I've seen a lot of Leeds fans proclaiming the idea that they are already promoted, but they're only 7 points clear of Fulham with 9 games to go. That is not, by any measure, a done deal. Perhaps even more importantly, the relegation places in respective leagues are nearly all up to play for.

If the season is ended you could perhaps 'elect' a team to the football league to make up for Bury's absence (so the football league teams vote to allow the current top side in - Barrow). You could maybe even do the same to elect Liverpool as champions, but I don't see really see how in the heck you promote and relegate sides from most of the leagues when there is still a lot to play for. The thing is - you can't really play those games fairly if some teams lose a bunch of players and others don't. There's also the potential situation where - if things do change - as they will over time, some parts of the country will be more affected by quarantine measures than others. So I would expect London could end up locked down for longer - meaning their teams can't train while others can...

There are no easy answers, but I think rushing it is the last thing we should be doing. Ultimately, I feel like the longer this goes on, the less likely it is that we complete the season. There's the potential that the break ends up being longer than the average pre-season... and players won't have been able to train properly either. Does completing a season at breakneck speed, with unfit players behind closed doors really provide a better ending to the season than simply abandoning it? To me, I don't think it does, and I think it has the potential to provide even more unfair results to the clubs with less financial means. Some people are going to feel unfairly done by either way, but that is life. I'm sure all of us have lost something from this pandemic - whether it is work, travel plans (I have lost both), or in the worst-case scenario, loved ones. The idea that we can't lose some football is just nonsense.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:34 am

Exactly in the scheme of things it really doesn't matter and football is firmly put in its place perspective wise.

We are in March. If a players contract is up at the end of June he can now sign for a new club effective from 1st July - what happens with these players if current campaign is still going across those two months?

Personally I think taking the season off the table if we get to the end of May and still as we are is the best option. What I am hearing, it is second hand from an owner of a step 5 club is that annulment is the current expected outcome.

His club are in a promotion place at the mo on existing position and PPG but is expecting following meetings this week to restart in existing division next season.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by jjljks » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:54 am

Quite happy for Barrow to go up as they were more than sympathetic to us when we were in trouble. Covid19 has completely wrecked the season and really the FA and league management have to sort things out asap. Otherwise we should leave it to Ginge to do the maths and tell us who is up and who goes down :lol:

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Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm

They don’t have to “sort things out ASAP”. In fact, it’s impossible to do that given we don’t know what the spread of the virus will be like. It could still be rising or we could be through the worst. We just don’t know.

We know football is suspended until the end of April. That’s all the FA needed to do. Now we wait for Government and expert advice on when it’s safe to start playing again.

The National League and rest of non-league do need something within the next few weeks, because players in those divisions have contracts which end in April. But those meetings are already taking place.

So no, the FA don’t need to rush anything until we know more. This virus could be sorted in weeks, it might take much longer. Rushing into a decision could make things considerably worse.

Moronic fans demanding things “get sorted ASAP” isn’t going to help the situation in any way.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:18 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:06 am
I honestly believe there will be a strong desire for us to complete the season, and for that reason, there will not be a decision anytime soon.

That said, I can't see practically how the season can continue after the end of June due to the end of players contracts and loan contracts. Some teams are bound to be more heavily affected by those circumstances than others, and the sporting integrity goes out of the window if completely different teams end up finishing the season. I really don't see how you can promote and relegate anyone if the season is not completed. I've seen a lot of Leeds fans proclaiming the idea that they are already promoted, but they're only 7 points clear of Fulham with 9 games to go. That is not, by any measure, a done deal. Perhaps even more importantly, the relegation places in respective leagues are nearly all up to play for.

If the season is ended you could perhaps 'elect' a team to the football league to make up for Bury's absence (so the football league teams vote to allow the current top side in - Barrow). You could maybe even do the same to elect Liverpool as champions, but I don't see really see how in the heck you promote and relegate sides from most of the leagues when there is still a lot to play for. The thing is - you can't really play those games fairly if some teams lose a bunch of players and others don't. There's also the potential situation where - if things do change - as they will over time, some parts of the country will be more affected by quarantine measures than others. So I would expect London could end up locked down for longer - meaning their teams can't train while others can...

There are no easy answers, but I think rushing it is the last thing we should be doing. Ultimately, I feel like the longer this goes on, the less likely it is that we complete the season. There's the potential that the break ends up being longer than the average pre-season... and players won't have been able to train properly either. Does completing a season at breakneck speed, with unfit players behind closed doors really provide a better ending to the season than simply abandoning it? To me, I don't think it does, and I think it has the potential to provide even more unfair results to the clubs with less financial means. Some people are going to feel unfairly done by either way, but that is life. I'm sure all of us have lost something from this pandemic - whether it is work, travel plans (I have lost both), or in the worst-case scenario, loved ones. The idea that we can't lose some football is just nonsense.
Very good post :clap: In fact the best I've read on here so far.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:53 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm
They don’t have to “sort things out ASAP”. In fact, it’s impossible to do that given we don’t know what the spread of the virus will be like. It could still be rising or we could be through the worst. We just don’t know.
I think the fact it it is still rising suggest it is still rising to be honest, but I guess equally we won't know it has stopped rising.

In terms of good news Italy do appear to have peaked when looking at new case volumes day to day - I suspect they will be a guide on how long after the peak restrictions remain in place for.

There is pretty strong expectation as well that this is here for a while otherwise telling the vulnerable to shield for 12 weeks seems strange.

There is no need for an ASAP judgement. I do think there is another two months until we really need a call to be made from a pro perspective but as you say below that it is probably in next few weeks.

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