Team v BPA

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darlobaz791
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Team v BPA

Post by darlobaz791 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pm

Tricky with the big game at the weekend but an extra days rest.

Minter (Save saltmer)

Hedley (save McMahon)
Atkinson
Laing
Watson

Wheatley
Reid (save Hatfield)

Sousa (can’t play v BR)
Rivers
Campbell

O’Neill (save Charman if available)

Subs: Maguire, Holness (if fit), McMahon, Saltmer, Hudson

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:04 pm

Agree with that. If things are going our way after 60 mins then Hudson for Wheatley. May be a funny game on Tues. Remember Brackley away last year when we were saving ourselves for the Walsall replay? However, a bigger squad this season.

Darlofan97
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:01 am

I think we will rest McMahon, Wheatley, Hatfield & Campbell.

Minter

Hedley
Laing
Storey
Watson

Atkinson
Reid

Rivers
O’Neill
Sousa

Maguire

Subs: Saltmer, McMahon, Wheatley, Charman, Hudson

The is with one eye on next Sunday, we have to give ourselves the best chance of causing an upset. It will be a tough match. Hopefully we will have Hunt, Hatfield & Charman back for then with maybe Liddle & Holness.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:57 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:01 am

The is with one eye on next Sunday, we have to give ourselves the best chance of causing an upset.
Why? The league is far more important this year. We aren't going to win the FA Cup, and the big prize for a non league club - an away tie at somewhere like Man U, has lost it's value because there won't be 70,000 people there giving us a massive income boost because of the gate split.

In fact it'd just be our luck to cause an upset, then draw Man U away and make nothing from it - whilst also getting panned 9-0. Fuck that.

Any other year, yes please. This year, no thanks.

We make 46k from round 2 even if we lose. Take the money and run, I say.
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lo36789
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:14 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:57 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:01 am

The is with one eye on next Sunday, we have to give ourselves the best chance of causing an upset.
Why? The league is far more important this year. We aren't going to win the FA Cup, and the big prize for a non league club - an away tie at somewhere like Man U, has lost it's value because there won't be 70,000 people there giving us a massive income boost because of the gate split.

In fact it'd just be our luck to cause an upset, then draw Man U away and make nothing from it - whilst also getting panned 9-0. Fuck that.

Any other year, yes please. This year, no thanks.

We make 46k from round 2 even if we lose. Take the money and run, I say.
Agree. Decreased odds of victory in league versus decreased the odds defeat.

I'd say lets just do our utmost to win as many games as possible - that means full strength v BPA.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:14 pm

Agreed there are less financial rewards, but what a great thing for the players to play at one of the big teams. Granted, many have played at big grounds before, but with this group of players together at Man. Utd with that shared experience, it would be their treat in the absence of fans at grounds, and I think this group deserve some big days out.
Also, don't know about anyone else, but life is much tougher than normal at the moment and this cup run has given a bit of relief and focus, and long may it continue.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:23 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:57 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:01 am

The is with one eye on next Sunday, we have to give ourselves the best chance of causing an upset.
Why? The league is far more important this year. We aren't going to win the FA Cup, and the big prize for a non league club - an away tie at somewhere like Man U, has lost it's value because there won't be 70,000 people there giving us a massive income boost because of the gate split.

In fact it'd just be our luck to cause an upset, then draw Man U away and make nothing from it - whilst also getting panned 9-0. Fuck that.

Any other year, yes please. This year, no thanks.

We make 46k from round 2 even if we lose. Take the money and run, I say.
Erm, because a win in the FA Cup would lead to around £60k in TV, prize money and donations?

Because that income equates to around 9% of our turnover?

Because we have already shown we can go to a League 1 side, away, and win?

Because some of the aforementioned players could do with a rest anyway?

Because this is 1 league game out of 42?

Risk v reward. Save some of the legs on Tuesday for what will be a very tough match on Sunday.

I'm not proposing whole-sale changes, or that we shouldn't look to win the game. However, those players above have played a lot of minutes recently and will find it difficult to put in a big shift on Sunday (potentially 120 minutes) having already played on the Tuesday night too.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:28 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:14 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:57 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:01 am

The is with one eye on next Sunday, we have to give ourselves the best chance of causing an upset.
Why? The league is far more important this year. We aren't going to win the FA Cup, and the big prize for a non league club - an away tie at somewhere like Man U, has lost it's value because there won't be 70,000 people there giving us a massive income boost because of the gate split.

In fact it'd just be our luck to cause an upset, then draw Man U away and make nothing from it - whilst also getting panned 9-0. Fuck that.

Any other year, yes please. This year, no thanks.

We make 46k from round 2 even if we lose. Take the money and run, I say.
Agree. Decreased odds of victory in league versus decreased the odds defeat.

I'd say lets just do our utmost to win as many games as possible - that means full strength v BPA.
Short-sighted.

McMahon is 34 and his legs aren't what they used to be. He has also just played 180 minutes on the back of being out for 2 weeks. Alun has said publicly that McMahon will rotate with Hedley.

Wheatley is our legs in midfield and has just put in 180 minutes in 6 days.

Hatfield has a tweak in his hamstring.

Campbell has just put in 240+ mins in 8 days.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by onewayup » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:52 pm

Its football no teams go onto the pitch to lose ever ,if a player has that attitude in mind he would not be in the game long, I think alun has a very strong squad no matter who is selected they have a job to do, every player wants to stay in the team so has to put their best performance in.
Show what they can do to have a chance of staying on the manager,s radar.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Spyman » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:33 pm

It's a tough balance. I can see the argument for prioritising both. Luckily I think with the squad we have, there's a number of options that don't significantly weaken the side - although I'd be nervous about leaving out both Wheatley and Hatfield at the same time.

Otherwise is there anyone where you don't feel the alternative option can still perform to a high level? I don't think there's much between Campbell, Sousa, Rivers, Maguire and Charman for example - any 3 of that 5 is pretty strong.

Same goes for the defence, I don't think there's much between any of them with the exception of Hunt, and then probably Liddle but he's injured at the moment anyway.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Mister e » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:13 pm

maybe just maybe that vaccination programme will get underway after all next month and we can start gradually getting back to normal in January. FA cup 3rd round day out or not.

lo36789
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:47 pm

Bit fanciful given its been well reported wide-scale vaccination until March/April.

180minutes in 6 days? Is that two games in a week in old money?

I'd prefer we started as strong as we can against BPA and use our subs.

We have 4 days before we play again.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Quakers83 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:47 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:47 pm
Bit fanciful given its been well reported wide-scale vaccination until March/April.

180minutes in 6 days? Is that two games in a week in old money?

I'd prefer we started as strong as we can against BPA and use our subs.

We have 4 days before we play again.
In reference to the 180 minutes comment that DF97 has made, I think he is pointing out that Wheatley has played the full two games in six days, rather than missing minutes by substitution. The same with McMahon.

Alun mentioned in his PMI on Saturday that if players do not feel fatigued then they will play on Tuesday, which is fair enough - but I don’t think DF97s suggestions are too far off what may happen.

It is a squad game after all, sometimes players do need preserving and the management team need to be tactful in selections taking into account the fixture schedule. You can’t always have a “starting as strong as we can” attitude. McMahon as an example, he is our best right-back, even at 34 with his knee strapped up and having played barely any games the season before - but we must start him in every game?

Your four days comment is also pointless.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by lo36789 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:21 am

I don't disagree that "if players are fatigued" they should be rested.

That is 100% what you should do. I don't sign up to resting players who are completely fit for an FA Cup.

Four days is entirely relevant it is 33% more recovery time than is usually available when playing two games a week. Which is how fixtures are usually schedules for the first 2 months of a football season.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:37 am

lo36789 wrote:I don't disagree that "if players are fatigued" they should be rested.

That is 100% what you should do. I don't sign up to resting players who are completely fit for an FA Cup.

Four days is entirely relevant it is 33% more recovery time than is usually available when playing two games a week. Which is how fixtures are usually schedules for the first 2 months of a football season.
But you lose that extra day because our match v Gateshead has been moved to Wednesday 2nd December, meaning we have one less to recover before the Hereford game on the 5th.

For me the Cup absolutely should be the priority. Fans or no fans, it’s been 18 years since we got to Round Three. It might be a similar length of time before we can get there again. And given the financial situation, we want to be maximising our potential earnings as well.

I agree with DarloFan97. We should be managing it sensibly. No player is ever 100% fit, they always have micro-tears or small niggles. It’s not like a computer-game where players recover to 100% fitness each week. Playing two games a week for the length of time we have been will have a cumulative effect.

These will be exacerbated because of the frankly ludicrous schedule we’ve had (and continue to have until January). The FA Trophy scheduling in December is a joke.

If we want to be successful in the league, we have to manage it sensibly, and if that means resting players ahead of a big Cup game, so be it.
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by lo36789 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:59 pm

It's personal view.

My perspective is that resting key players against BPA decreases the change of victory in that game by more than it increases the chance of victory against Bristol Rovers.

That doesn't feel like value for money but can see that the prize is greater in the FA Cup game.

Quakers83
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Quakers83 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:51 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:21 am
I don't disagree that "if players are fatigued" they should be rested.

That is 100% what you should do. I don't sign up to resting players who are completely fit for an FA Cup.

Four days is entirely relevant it is 33% more recovery time than is usually available when playing two games a week. Which is how fixtures are usually schedules for the first 2 months of a football season.
I think you’re missing a main point of why we should rest players on Tuesday.

Regardless of the four day rest afterwards, you are putting players at a greater risk of muscular injuries during the BPA game after the amount of games recently. If a couple of players tear a hamstring or pull a calf (& we have had muscular injuries quite regular this season), then they will be ruled out of Sunday.

At least if we rest players then they would be protected from injury, and then there is the added benefit of the rested players being fresher for Sunday too...

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Quakers83 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:57 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:59 pm
It's personal view.

My perspective is that resting key players against BPA decreases the change of victory in that game by more than it increases the chance of victory against Bristol Rovers.

That doesn't feel like value for money but can see that the prize is greater in the FA Cup game.
It is risk against reward and the two upcoming games need putting into perspective.

BPA - One league game from 42 - three points at stake.

Bristol Rovers - On the BBC, one game away from drawing a Premier League side, arguably one of the biggest games since 2012 in terms of the financial rewards and exposure.

We may lose both games, but let’s use the squad on Tuesday and give us the best possible chance of progressing.

I think we would all take a defeat on Tuesday and a win on Sunday. Progression would certainly be worth more in the long run than three points...

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Old Git » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:02 pm

Not even a question for me. Imperative we go into Sunday’s game with the strongest possible team we possibly can. Not just for the money but to ensure we put up a good show for the BBC viewers. Reaching the 3rd Round and the chance of a game with a Premiership Club and all that entails would be a massive boost to our club.
If possible we need to give Hunt McMahon Hatfield Liddle Holness and Charman every chance to be available for the Bristol Rovers game. With that in mind I would not expect to see any of them involved tomorrow night. Would also look at trying to rest Wheatley and Campbell as they have played a lot of minutes recently.
With that in mind would go with a team as below.
Saltmer/ Minter
Hedley Laing Storey Watson
Sousa Atkinson Reid Rivers
Maguire O’Neill.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by H1987 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:42 pm

Old Git wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:02 pm
Not even a question for me. Imperative we go into Sunday’s game with the strongest possible team we possibly can. Not just for the money but to ensure we put up a good show for the BBC viewers. Reaching the 3rd Round and the chance of a game with a Premiership Club and all that entails would be a massive boost to our club.
If possible we need to give Hunt McMahon Hatfield Liddle Holness and Charman every chance to be available for the Bristol Rovers game. With that in mind I would not expect to see any of them involved tomorrow night. Would also look at trying to rest Wheatley and Campbell as they have played a lot of minutes recently.
With that in mind would go with a team as below.
Saltmer/ Minter
Hedley Laing Storey Watson
Sousa Atkinson Reid Rivers
Maguire O’Neill.
Yeah, that'd basically be my team nailed on.

I honestly feel like that team can win anyway. It isn't a weak side. It isn't our best, but I agree with having a swing at the FA Cup.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:21 pm

I can't believe that people are saying field a weakened team tomorrow to concentrate on the cup.

We play our best line up for both, or what's the point?

And if we *must* prioritise one match over the other, then prioritise BPA. We are W3 L4 in the league (assuming the Boston result stands, which it will), I don't want us increasing the chances of throwing 3 points away.
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Old Git » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:49 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:21 pm
I can't believe that people are saying field a weakened team tomorrow to concentrate on the cup.

We play our best line up for both, or what's the point?

And if we *must* prioritise one match over the other, then prioritise BPA. We are W3 L4 in the league (assuming the Boston result stands, which it will), I don't want us increasing the chances of throwing 3 points away.
How often do you think we will be one match away from a place in the FA Cup 3rd Round ?

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by My opinion » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:47 pm

Old Git wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:49 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:21 pm
I can't believe that people are saying field a weakened team tomorrow to concentrate on the cup.

We play our best line up for both, or what's the point?

And if we *must* prioritise one match over the other, then prioritise BPA. We are W3 L4 in the league (assuming the Boston result stands, which it will), I don't want us increasing the chances of throwing 3 points away.
How often do you think we will be one match away from a place in the FA Cup 3rd Round ?
I have to agree with Ghost on this
Not many thought we could get past Swindon, But now loads on here suddenly think we ARE going to beat Bristol Rovers.
Remember we are the team from three divisions below them.
Don't get me wrong, I hope we can give them a good game and show how good we can be. But they should win it
My opinion is that we need 3 points tomorrow and should play our strongest available team.
As for the team, I hope Charman gets a run out at some point as he will need to be sharp for Sunday.
Difficult decision for AA to make.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Quakers83 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:54 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:21 pm
I can't believe that people are saying field a weakened team tomorrow to concentrate on the cup.

We play our best line up for both, or what's the point?

And if we *must* prioritise one match over the other, then prioritise BPA. We are W3 L4 in the league (assuming the Boston result stands, which it will), I don't want us increasing the chances of throwing 3 points away.
What’s the point in having a squad then?

It isn’t fielding a weakened side, it’s rotation.

Looking through our player list, I don’t have any question marks over them - they’re all capable of stepping up to the plate as some of them have proven against Guiseley and Alfreton.

We should not, as a minimum, be risking McMahon, Liddle, Hatfield, Holness, or Campbell - that’s just my opinion.
Last edited by Quakers83 on Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Quakers83 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:57 pm

My opinion wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:47 pm
Old Git wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:49 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:21 pm
I can't believe that people are saying field a weakened team tomorrow to concentrate on the cup.

We play our best line up for both, or what's the point?

And if we *must* prioritise one match over the other, then prioritise BPA. We are W3 L4 in the league (assuming the Boston result stands, which it will), I don't want us increasing the chances of throwing 3 points away.
How often do you think we will be one match away from a place in the FA Cup 3rd Round ?
I have to agree with Ghost on this
Not many thought we could get past Swindon, But now loads on here suddenly think we ARE going to beat Bristol Rovers.
Remember we are the team from three divisions below them.
Don't get me wrong, I hope we can give them a good game and show how good we can be. But they should win it
My opinion is that we need 3 points tomorrow and should play our strongest available team.
As for the team, I hope Charman gets a run out at some point as he will need to be sharp for Sunday.
Difficult decision for AA to make.
Can you find me ‘loads’ of posts/posters on here that think we are going to beat Bristol Rovers?

There’s a difference between thinking we’re going to beat them, and wanting to give us the best possible chance of beating them.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:46 am

My opinion wrote: I have to agree with Ghost on this
Not many thought we could get past Swindon, But now loads on here suddenly think we ARE going to beat Bristol Rovers.
Who on this thread has said that? You’ll need to point it out because I can’t see where anyone has said that.
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Re: Team v BPA

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:13 am

Quakers83 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:54 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:21 pm
I can't believe that people are saying field a weakened team tomorrow to concentrate on the cup.

We play our best line up for both, or what's the point?

And if we *must* prioritise one match over the other, then prioritise BPA. We are W3 L4 in the league (assuming the Boston result stands, which it will), I don't want us increasing the chances of throwing 3 points away.
What’s the point in having a squad then?

It isn’t fielding a weakened side, it’s rotation.

Looking through our player list, I don’t have any question marks over them - they’re all capable of stepping up to the plate as some of them have proven against Guiseley and Alfreton.

We should not, as a minimum, be risking McMahon, Liddle, Hatfield, Holness, or Campbell - that’s just my opinion.
If you think that, then rotate them in against Bristol Rovers.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Old Git » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:17 am

Surely it is about having the maximum number of players to choose from for what many of us regard as probably our biggest match of the season. Don’t forget we have to play Gateshead and Hereford as well in the 6 days after Bristol Rovers so at some point the squad will need shuffling a bit. Might as well be now before the FA Cup tie to maximise our chances of causing another upset. It may be unlikely but it is not impossible as Rovers are not exactly flying high and we have shown at Swindon that we are good enough to take advantage if they are below par. Bet your life that Bristol Rovers will be nervous of being another giant killing victim.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by My opinion » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:24 am

Quakers83 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:57 pm
My opinion wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:47 pm
Old Git wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:49 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:21 pm
I can't believe that people are saying field a weakened team tomorrow to concentrate on the cup.

We play our best line up for both, or what's the point?

And if we *must* prioritise one match over the other, then prioritise BPA. We are W3 L4 in the league (assuming the Boston result stands, which it will), I don't want us increasing the chances of throwing 3 points away.
How often do you think we will be one match away from a place in the FA Cup 3rd Round ?
I have to agree with Ghost on this
Not many thought we could get past Swindon, But now loads on here suddenly think we ARE going to beat Bristol Rovers.
Remember we are the team from three divisions below them.
Don't get me wrong, I hope we can give them a good game and show how good we can be. But they should win it
My opinion is that we need 3 points tomorrow and should play our strongest available team.
As for the team, I hope Charman gets a run out at some point as he will need to be sharp for Sunday.
Difficult decision for AA to make.
Can you find me ‘loads’ of posts/posters on here that think we are going to beat Bristol Rovers?

There’s a difference between thinking we’re going to beat them, and wanting to give us the best possible chance of beating them.
Yes, ok.
You are right, maybe I am mistaking the fact that several posters are looking for us to play a weakened team tonight and our strongest team on Sunday as a sign that some are expecting us to win on Sunday.
But, I still think our bread and butter is in the league.
I remember the team that Notts Forrest had under Brian Clough that won two European cups. His teams consisted of the strongest players available for each game. He was never one for chopping and changing unless he had players injured or out of form..
As I said, this is a difficult decision for AA to make.
I do expect him to rest some of the players but it's not what I would do.. That;s probably why I was never any good at football management.

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Re: Team v BPA

Post by Old Git » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:49 am

According to Ray Simpson’s report in today’s Echo Charman is fit to play this evening whilst Liddle and Holness are definitely out. Hatfield and McMahon to have fitness tests. Also says that Hunt hopes to train o Thursday.

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