Taking the Knee

Discussion of footy that ISN'T centred around Darlo!

Moderators: mikkyx, uncovered

Post Reply
Old Git
Posts: 1346
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Taking the Knee

Post by Old Git » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:47 am

Disturbing reports that Millwall supporters booed at their home game yesterday when the players took the knee at the start of the game. What is surprising is that with only 2000 in the ground who were presumably season ticket holders this should happen. Not saying season ticket holders can’t misbehave but this is obviously not the actions of a few hooligans who have tagged along for trouble but died in the wool Millwall fans.
Some clubs including Boro have stopped taking the knee because they believe it has become simply a custom and has lost it’s meaning which I can understand but to disrespect those who are doing it is out of order. By their actions these so called supporters merely serve to reinforce the need to ensure racism is no longer tolerated in football.

AndyPark
Posts: 11715
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:08 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by AndyPark » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:37 pm

Apparently the West Ham fans booed it aswell but Sky blocked it out.

Darlo_Pete
Posts: 13361
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:25 am

It also happened at Colchester. Sky is covering the Millwall v QPR game tonight, I think the reaction to taking the knee will be of more interest than the game. Hopefully they'll shut up & respect what the players are trying to say.

EDJOHNS
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by EDJOHNS » Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:11 pm

After seeing a comment above I posted on a WHU site I run asking if anyone was at the match and could enlighten me about any booing.
2 people came back saying they were at the match. Both reported that some people turned their backs on the players as they "took the knee", others kept on chatting and ignored what they were doing but neither heard any booing.
I know 1 of the people personally and they have no reason to not tell the truth.
My own feelings are simple. I know it will upset some. I really don't care. No-one tried to go onto the pitch or cause any trouble.
Are we now saying that you are allowed to protest, but only so long as you are taking the politically correct party line? Is that not exactly what the Nazi's and others said. Why have the players the right to protest but people do not have the right to protest at their actions if they think this should not be done at football matches?
Again, totally personally, I do not believe sport should be used in this way so had I been at the OS I would not have booed, but I would have turned my back. Not in any arranged manner, simply my own stand point.

EDJOHNS
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by EDJOHNS » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:31 pm

Is this what you want?

The "State" is coming down on the Millwall fans and saying they can't boo. Just how far should "The state" be allowed to dictate to individuals?
Again, if the booing was racist it was wrong, but if it was protesting the taking of the knee they should have the right to say they disagree with players doing that.
.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-55227538

Vokuhila
Posts: 794
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Darlo

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by Vokuhila » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:46 pm

As has been made clear time and again by the Premier League, 'taking the knee' is NOT political. Any booing at the London Stadium would've been, at best, ignorant.

Are you seriously saying that your first reaction to your team showing their solidarity with the wider BAME community and backing anti-discrimination would be to turn your back on them?

How do you think that might've made you feel if you were Michail Antonio, for example, and you'd seen that?

If it was me, I think I'd probably be pretty devastated that my own fans - let alone anyone else - had literally turned their backs on me.

EDJOHNS
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:12 am

Did you notice, (you may have missed it because there was no hysterical ranting by the mass media afterwards), the Millwall fans who were accused of racism at the weekend for booing the players last night applauded the same players for holding up an anti racism banner and not taking the knee.
You are sort of pulling a Gramps there Vokuhila and assuming you understand my misgivings, which should have been clearer if you looked at the second post about the Chinese football. IF, repeat IF ALL the players wanted to take the knee I would have less of a problem with it. My BUT is that I go to and watch more rugby league now than football, and when this whole taking the knee started many rugby players did not want to do so. Funny thing but most of those who did not were South sea islanders such as Samoans and Fijians, all what would be described as "People of colour". By the close of the season a lot of those, and I know this from talking to such as Wellar Houraki, and Mose Masoe of KR and David Fifita of Wakey had felt forced to join in when they did not want to. I have also seen that now all football players do it when, again, at the start, not all did. This should have remained voluntary and not forced onto people, which is why I posted about the Chinese women's football. Just how far is it "OK" to make everyone "conform"?
That is my point and my sole concern.
PS, why pick on Michael Antonio? WHU have a number of players who have various shades of skin. Or is it that you noticed he was 1 who did NOT take the knee to start but now does?

Darlo_Pete
Posts: 13361
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:10 pm

I didn't watch the Millwall match, so didn't hear the booing. But on 5Live they played a clip of the booing & it was very loud, so how anybody could say they didn't hear anything is hard to believe.

EDJOHNS
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:30 pm

Pete you are talking about Millwall while I was talking about WHU. There is a comment above re' booing at the OS at the weekend, while I was told there was none.

comeondarlo
Posts: 2734
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:54 am
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: A Swimming Pool (usually).

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by comeondarlo » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:39 pm

You really are a Very strange fish Ted.

Vokuhila
Posts: 794
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Darlo

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by Vokuhila » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:32 pm

Don't get me wrong, EDJOHNS, I understand your concerns and agree that no one should be forced to take the knee if they really don't want to, but what I can't get my head around is why anyone would turn their back on those that do [take the knee] and also those players who are choosing to show their support in other ways.

I'm assuming you meant picking out - rather than picking on - Michail Antonio, as I certainly wasn't doing the latter. He's one of the faces of the 'No Room For Racism' campaign, so he was the first West Ham player to pop into my head. As it turns out, he wasn't even playing against Man U :lol: As you point out yourself though, I'm sure I could've chosen any of the team that evening.

Darlogramps
Posts: 5702
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Taking the Knee

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:30 pm

Vokuhila wrote:Don't get me wrong, EDJOHNS, I understand your concerns and agree that no one should be forced to take the knee if they really don't want to, but what I can't get my head around is why anyone would turn their back on those that do [take the knee] and also those players who are choosing to show their support in other ways.

I'm assuming you meant picking out - rather than picking on - Michail Antonio, as I certainly wasn't doing the latter. He's one of the faces of the 'No Room For Racism' campaign, so he was the first West Ham player to pop into my head. As it turns out, he wasn't even playing against Man U :lol: As you point out yourself though, I'm sure I could've chosen any of the team that evening.
I’m with you Vokuhila.

First, no one should feel obliged to make the gesture. It’s entirely up to them, and actually I do think Ted has a point in that some players may well end up feeling pressured into something they don’t want to do.

And furthermore, no fan has to be happy about the gesture. Asking for unquestioning support isn’t right either.

However, anyone who does a modicum of research will realise this is nothing to do with Black Lives Matter the political protest group. Taking the knee is not a political act.

Taking the knee is all about solidarity and unity, showing the everyone will be treated as equal, and that we should unite to treat each other with respect and stamp out injustices.

Therefore I disagree with anyone who boos or turns their back on the gesture because they believe it is political. It isn’t. And if they know it isn’t political but choose to reject and disparage the taking the knee anyway, then that’s a much bigger, racist problem.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 5157
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:40 pm

"Kick It Out" - football's own anti racism platform should be brought back to play.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

PierremontQuaker03
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:53 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:54 am

I think this needs to be scrapped and replaced with something else- there is too much mis-conception around this and the BLM movement. It has created more division rather than attempting to reduce it.
“If you can't hit a driver, don't.”
Greg Norman

Darlogramps
Posts: 5702
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Taking the Knee

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:39 am

To be honest, it doesn’t matter whether players take a knee or not. It’s a gesture and should be up to each individual player to decide, and no one should face repercussions for their choice.

For proper change, there needs to be action including educating young fans why racially abusing people is so abhorrent, and that it’s not just “banter” or something to let off steam when you’re frustrated. This includes greater diversity at the top of the game and society generally.

What I do have an issue with is the people who have deliberately conflated taking a knee ( a solidarity gesture in support of anti-racism and equal treatment for all) with the political Black Lives Matter organisation, and use that as justification for their own bigotry.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 5157
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:24 pm

PierremontQuaker03 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:54 am
I think this needs to be scrapped and replaced with something else- there is too much mis-conception around this and the BLM movement. It has created more division rather than attempting to reduce it.
I agree, "replaced with something else" being the key thing.

I could be wrong here but I'm sure I've seen "Black Lives Matter" written as a logo on my TV screen whilst live matches have been on. If people are mixing up taking the knee with the B.L.M. movement (whether that be good or bad) this could be why.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

quaker4life
Posts: 2524
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:24 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Contact:

Re: Taking the Knee

Post by quaker4life » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:17 pm

I've held back on commenting openly on this issue but in light of recent events I've decided to add my two cents worth and bump an old thread in the process.

The most important thing to remember is it is not the gesture that matters most but the message behind it and the gesture itself, in my opinion, has become redundant and has been devoid of meaning or impact for some time and as a result the message behind it is getting lost with it.

The utterly deplorable scenes which we saw in America following George Floyd's death last summer which also cost six others their lives and the equally deplorable scenes we saw over here, particularly in Bristol, should have been condemned. No movement which imposes itself by violence, rioting, vandalism and looting should ever be endorsed however, bizarrely, that's exactly what Football among other sports have done, regardless of whether it was their intention or not.

The Premier League's claim that having Black Lives Matter insignia on shirts, advertising boards and banners was not an endorsement is utterly ludicrous it is no different with anything else, when you put a logo on your shirt or on advertising boards around the stadium you are endorsing that business, organisation or product to say otherwise is nonsensical. The gesture of taking the knee has also predominantly come to be associated with the BLM movement and the political connotations associated with it are inescapable. Hence the division it has caused and continues to cause among supporters, despite the repeated insistence that is it is not a political symbol and that it is simply an anti racism gesture.

Although personally I entirely disagree with booing the players I do understand why some choose to do so, although some may not approve I would rather people turned their backs or simply ignored it. Above all else I find booing the players and cheering them afterwards to be both hypocritical and foolish but I do I appreciate those who do boo have a right to express their disapproval as much as others do to express their support, despite certain public figures shall we say being in favour of condemnation, censorship and suppression.

I saw the news during the week regarding Millwall V Fulham and the Millwall fans booing the Fulham players for taking the knee and the criticism directed towards Gary Rowett for refusing to condemn them. It is very easy for these pundits to sit in a studio and point fingers but they should put themselves in his position, he's treading on egg shells, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he begins criticising his own supporters it will achieve nothing other than pouring more fuel on the fire as well as creating a rift between himself and supporters which would surely make his position untenable, why should he give up his job up?

It may be a widely unpopular opinion but I agree with him when he says we need to find a new way to unify people, an anti racism gesture should be something everyone can get behind. It should never turn fans against players and against each other which is what taking the knee is causing and will continue to cause, the Football authorities may have elected to turn a blind eye to it and hope by ignoring it it will simply go away but as most will undoubtedly know when you ignore a problem it tends to get worse.

The majority of us can all agree that more needs to be done to stamp out racism and discrimination both online and in stadiums and there a various means in which we can get that message out there but as far as I'm concerned taking the knee is not it.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

Post Reply