Luke charman

[lo36789]

Well if he got that clause it suggests that yes he was.

Possibly, if I am not mistaken, helped by being our only striker at the time he signed.

I might be remembering incorrectly but our search for a striker has only this season been superceded by our desperation for defenders this season.

[Yarblockos]

I mean, we could let him go for 20K with lots of add ons, but then what if he doesn't end up being a success and gets released by Rochdale. Add ons are no guarantee and you have to be prepared to knock down the price if you want them included. Putting a positive spin on it, at least 40K is guaranteed money in the bank.

[D_F_C]

I mean, we could let him go for 20K with lots of add ons, but then what if he doesn't end up being a success and gets released by Rochdale. Add ons are no guarantee and you have to be prepared to knock down the price if you want them included. Putting a positive spin on it, at least 40K is guaranteed money in the bank.

Plus another endorsement that if players do drop down, we are a good option to get them in the shop window as long as they work hard just like Luke has


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[Old Git]

I mean, we could let him go for 20K with lots of add ons, but then what if he doesn't end up being a success and gets released by Rochdale. Add ons are no guarantee and you have to be prepared to knock down the price if you want them included. Putting a positive spin on it, at least 40K is guaranteed money in the bank.

Plus another endorsement that if players do drop down, we are a good option to get them in the shop window as long as they work hard just like Luke has


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What a pair of muppets!
I’ve got an idea lets give him away for nothing to reduce our wage bill.

[Darlogramps]

I do love it when Old Git starts with the over-exaggerations. Sure fire sign other people have made sensible points and he’s lost the argument.

[D_F_C]

I do love it when Old Git starts with the over-exaggerations. Sure fire sign other people have made sensible points and he’s lost the argument.

He doesn’t seem to grasp that none of us want to sell him for what we perceive as ‘not enough’ but are looking at the possibilities of why

Maybe under his methods we never sign Charman. I guess we’ll never know


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[Old Git]

I do love it when Old Git starts with the over-exaggerations. Sure fire sign other people have made sensible points and he’s lost the argument.

He doesn’t seem to grasp that none of us want to sell him for what we perceive as ‘not enough’ but are looking at the possibilities of why

Maybe under his methods we never sign Charman. I guess we’ll never know


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I suggest that we sign all crap players that nobody would ever want. Oh hang on a minute I think Armstrong tried that last summer

[Spyman]

£40k is a fair price what what he's shown so far. This has been discussed already and when you compare him to other non-league strikers, it looks about right given the current financial climate.

Add-ons would be great as he has potential to keep improving, and I hope we can negotiate some as we've played a part in his development, but he may also go on to do nothing much and earn us nothing more either way.

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[Darlofan97]

I understand that we can not hold him back but if he is allowed to leave for £40k with no potential extras it will be daylight robbery and those that have allowed it to happen have been very naive.

Hypothetically what if Charman had said well if you won't agree to £40k I'll just take my chances on a free transfer next summer.

Basically one more year guarantee isn't enough for me to risk being prevented from a move because the price is too high for a buyer.

Why would that be naive? We protected our asset by getting him to sign the contract...both parties have their own motivations for what sits in that contract.

It is way too simplistic to just think it was allowed to happen through naivity.

The point I am trying to make is that on the one hand Charman is described as a young inexperienced rather injury prone striker and yet he is given a new 2 year contract that allows him to leave for a modest fee. We took a chance on his potential and should be able to get a better reward.
Don’t forget last season he did well in cup competitions, mainly against teams from lower leagues eg Tadcaster, City of Liverpool etc. In fact he failed to score a single goal in any NLN games. However, he did show plenty of potential and I think most fans were happy he signed a new deal, which presumably was on better terms for himself and gave him some more security. Surely part of the reason for this was to make sure we would not lose out financially if he did well and attracted the attention of other teams. Personally I think it was a mistake to allow that get out clause, if indeed that was the case. Was Charman really in such a strong position that we had to allow this to happen?
Look at the case of Andrew Nelson in contrast to this one. Of course we took a punt on him knowing he was getting over a long term injury, but we have paid him for the last 5/6 months with virtually nothing in return. It seems the club has to bear the risk and when it pays off like it has with Charman we do not get a big reward.
If the rumours are true about him leaving on the cheap, surely lessons have to be learned for the future. It is fine that we want to be a club that helps young players forge a pathway into the professional game, but we need to be in a position to benefit when this happens, because for every Charman there will be plenty that don’t make it.

Negotiation is a two-way street. Clubs don’t hold all of the aces with players, especially when you’re a part-time club.

Charman was getting interest in the summer, even before putting in the excellent performances he has been this season.

Without the release clause, I’d say it is highly likely that Charman wouldn’t have signed an extension until May 2023, and we would face losing him on a free this summer anyway.

The club have probably balanced this one right, we’ve had 18 months of a centre-forward that is clearly too good for this level, with £40k+ to show for it. I’m not saying that as a fan-owned club we need to adopt a “sell to buy” policy, but developing this talent & then selling on looks good on the manager & club, even though as fans we find it frustrating when our best players leave for bigger things!

[H1987]

I’d be very surprised if we haven’t negotiated some add-ons as part of the deal, but I’d imagine those won’t be made public at the time.

This is just a reality of where we are as a club. I’m afraid to get further we need to identify more Charmans and turn a profit on them consistently. That’s how we are going to progress.

[lo36789]

I’d be very surprised if we haven’t negotiated some add-ons as part of the deal.

I would be extremely surprised if there is a £40k release clause that Rochdale would meet his release clause and then give us some add-ons out of the goodness of their heart.

[Fatty eats roadkill]

£40k is better than a kick in the bollocks and leaving on a free next year.
AND he didn’t go to Hartleshite!

[Old Git]

I’d be very surprised if we haven’t negotiated some add-ons as part of the deal, but I’d imagine those won’t be made public at the time.

This is just a reality of where we are as a club. I’m afraid to get further we need to identify more Charmans and turn a profit on them consistently. That’s how we are going to progress.

Even if we could find a Charman every season and sell them for 40k it would not be enough to allow us to progress very far. More likely just help us to stay where we are. Progressing as a club will need our own ground and lots of commercial revenue and investment.
In fact if we sell our best players on a regular basis we may even regress. This is the dilemma we face, and until and unless this changes, we are unlikely to be making much progress at all.

[My opinion]

I’d be very surprised if we haven’t negotiated some add-ons as part of the deal, but I’d imagine those won’t be made public at the time.

This is just a reality of where we are as a club. I’m afraid to get further we need to identify more Charmans and turn a profit on them consistently. That’s how we are going to progress.

Even if we could find a Charman every season and sell them for 40k it would not be enough to allow us to progress very far. More likely just help us to stay where we are. Progressing as a club will need our own ground and lots of commercial revenue and investment.
In fact if we sell our best players on a regular basis we may even regress. This is the dilemma we face, and until and unless this changes, we are unlikely to be making much progress at all.

Bloody hell man. It's all doom and gloom with you isn't it.
Is there any brightness in the future of DFC or shall we all pack in now ??

[al_quaker]

I guess a viable option as a club is to look for young talent like Charman to develop and sell, even if only for 40k or so, and then that money can be used to get good but older players (who aren't looking for full time football) signed up on longer contracts so that we can have a strong spine developing over a number of seasons. It'll be a shame to see Charman go, but if we can use that money to get someone like Lawlor in permanently, and get some key players signed up for next season already, then we will be in a stronger position than the summer just gone.

[lo36789]

Bloody hell man. It's all doom and gloom with you isn't it.
Is there any brightness in the future of DFC or shall we all pack in now ??

Seemingly unless you are challenging for promotion there is no point in a football club in some eyes.

I would think on metrics such as the number of youth and female players we have we have made quite a lot of progress recently.

Also if I am not mistaken on the metric of number of fans who are owners we are also up above 1000 now.

Personally, that is a very important metric for a community football club so is good progress.

I notice that the 'community benefit' is always a top reason why football clubs want funding or council support to develop their income streams. Rarely do they mention league position or value of players sales as their purpose in those circumstances.

[Old Git]

I’d be very surprised if we haven’t negotiated some add-ons as part of the deal, but I’d imagine those won’t be made public at the time.

This is just a reality of where we are as a club. I’m afraid to get further we need to identify more Charmans and turn a profit on them consistently. That’s how we are going to progress.

Even if we could find a Charman every season and sell them for 40k it would not be enough to allow us to progress very far. More likely just help us to stay where we are. Progressing as a club will need our own ground and lots of commercial revenue and investment.
In fact if we sell our best players on a regular basis we may even regress. This is the dilemma we face, and until and unless this changes, we are unlikely to be making much progress at all.

Bloody hell man. It's all doom and gloom with you isn't it.
Is there any brightness in the future of DFC or shall we all pack in now ??

No just a realistic assessment of where we stand. I am happy to keep supporting my team as I have done for 55 years but I know progression under our current ownership model is unlikely. What I personally would like to see is Darlington Football Club regain EFL status at some time in the future. Nothing wrong with that aspiration but in the meantime we will have to just have to live in hope.

[real_darlo_85]

I’d be very surprised if we haven’t negotiated some add-ons as part of the deal, but I’d imagine those won’t be made public at the time.

This is just a reality of where we are as a club. I’m afraid to get further we need to identify more Charmans and turn a profit on them consistently. That’s how we are going to progress.

Even if we could find a Charman every season and sell them for 40k it would not be enough to allow us to progress very far. More likely just help us to stay where we are. Progressing as a club will need our own ground and lots of commercial revenue and investment.
In fact if we sell our best players on a regular basis we may even regress. This is the dilemma we face, and until and unless this changes, we are unlikely to be making much progress at all.

Bloody hell man. It's all doom and gloom with you isn't it.
Is there any brightness in the future of DFC or shall we all pack in now ??

No just a realistic assessment of where we stand. I am happy to keep supporting my team as I have done for 55 years but I know progression under our current ownership model is unlikely. What I personally would like to see is Darlington Football Club regain EFL status at some time in the future. Nothing wrong with that aspiration but in the meantime we will have to just have to live in hope.

Agree with a lot of this. It's great where we have got to in a relatively short space of time, but it's because we have reached this point in double quick time that expectations for some are that we should be challenging for promotion every season. At some point we will have to stop treading water and look at keeping better players to help mould a squad capable of promotion and possibly hold their own in the National League. The frustration is that you can't do that if you keep selling better players and top goal scorers regardless of the finance involved. Also this season we haven't had a cup run to deflect expectations unlike the last two and produce another source of income which means everything is on the league.

Granted circumstances have been difficult for the past 18-20 months and it is a testament to those looking after the club that we are where we are, however this season does feel like a little step back and maybe that's where frustration is.

[Spyman]

No just a realistic assessment of where we stand. I am happy to keep supporting my team as I have done for 55 years but I know progression under our current ownership model is unlikely. What I personally would like to see is Darlington Football Club regain EFL status at some time in the future. Nothing wrong with that aspiration but in the meantime we will have to just have to live in hope.

Over your 55 years "progress" has been very limited. Aside from the last decade it's been the very occasional promotion (or challenge for), followed by struggle. That was the case under previous ownership models - problem being that on at least 4 occasions, that ownership model nearly resulted in the club going bust.

10 years ago almost to the day we came as close as ever to losing the club and essentially had to start again. Pretty sure that if you'd said to most of us 10 years ago we'll be a stable club playing at the level we're now at, with minimal risk of getting plunged into financial insecurity again because we're generating money through the sustainable source of developing and selling players, we'd have taken that.

Getting back to the Football League might seem attractive, but once you're there what then? Do we constantly yearn for progress at all costs, even if it means risking the clubs future? Or do we accept that we have a team to support and to give the town some identity week after week, season after season? There will always be a ceiling - ours is now a couple of divisions below what it was 20 years ago but at least the floor beneath us is not made of paper.

[loan_star]

No just a realistic assessment of where we stand. I am happy to keep supporting my team as I have done for 55 years but I know progression under our current ownership model is unlikely. What I personally would like to see is Darlington Football Club regain EFL status at some time in the future. Nothing wrong with that aspiration but in the meantime we will have to just have to live in hope.

Over your 55 years "progress" has been very limited. Aside from the last decade it's been the very occasional promotion (or challenge for), followed by struggle. That was the case under previous ownership models - problem being that on at least 4 occasions, that ownership model nearly resulted in the club going bust.

10 years ago almost to the day we came as close as ever to losing the club and essentially had to start again. Pretty sure that if you'd said to most of us 10 years ago we'll be a stable club playing at the level we're now at, with minimal risk of getting plunged into financial insecurity again because we're generating money through the sustainable source of developing and selling players, we'd have taken that.

Getting back to the Football League might seem attractive, but once you're there what then? Do we constantly yearn for progress at all costs, even if it means risking the clubs future? Or do we accept that we have a team to support and to give the town some identity week after week, season after season? There will always be a ceiling - ours is now a couple of divisions below what it was 20 years ago but at least the floor beneath us is not made of paper.

[comeondarlo]

No just a realistic assessment of where we stand. I am happy to keep supporting my team as I have done for 55 years but I know progression under our current ownership model is unlikely. What I personally would like to see is Darlington Football Club regain EFL status at some time in the future. Nothing wrong with that aspiration but in the meantime we will have to just have to live in hope.

Over your 55 years "progress" has been very limited. Aside from the last decade it's been the very occasional promotion (or challenge for), followed by struggle. That was the case under previous ownership models - problem being that on at least 4 occasions, that ownership model nearly resulted in the club going bust.

10 years ago almost to the day we came as close as ever to losing the club and essentially had to start again. Pretty sure that if you'd said to most of us 10 years ago we'll be a stable club playing at the level we're now at, with minimal risk of getting plunged into financial insecurity again because we're generating money through the sustainable source of developing and selling players, we'd have taken that.

Getting back to the Football League might seem attractive, but once you're there what then? Do we constantly yearn for progress at all costs, even if it means risking the clubs future? Or do we accept that we have a team to support and to give the town some identity week after week, season after season? There will always be a ceiling - ours is now a couple of divisions below what it was 20 years ago but at least the floor beneath us is not made of paper.

Great post Spy but what is football without ambition!
I maintain that I’d like to see Darlo back in the football league before I die (I’m not sure it’ll happen tbh).
But that’s my ambition/goal, if we get there then the ambition becomes staying there.

[Spyman]

No just a realistic assessment of where we stand. I am happy to keep supporting my team as I have done for 55 years but I know progression under our current ownership model is unlikely. What I personally would like to see is Darlington Football Club regain EFL status at some time in the future. Nothing wrong with that aspiration but in the meantime we will have to just have to live in hope.

Over your 55 years "progress" has been very limited. Aside from the last decade it's been the very occasional promotion (or challenge for), followed by struggle. That was the case under previous ownership models - problem being that on at least 4 occasions, that ownership model nearly resulted in the club going bust.

10 years ago almost to the day we came as close as ever to losing the club and essentially had to start again. Pretty sure that if you'd said to most of us 10 years ago we'll be a stable club playing at the level we're now at, with minimal risk of getting plunged into financial insecurity again because we're generating money through the sustainable source of developing and selling players, we'd have taken that.

Getting back to the Football League might seem attractive, but once you're there what then? Do we constantly yearn for progress at all costs, even if it means risking the clubs future? Or do we accept that we have a team to support and to give the town some identity week after week, season after season? There will always be a ceiling - ours is now a couple of divisions below what it was 20 years ago but at least the floor beneath us is not made of paper.

Great post Spy but what is football without ambition!
I maintain that I’d like to see Darlo back in the football league before I die (I’m not sure it’ll happen tbh).
But that’s my ambition/goal, if we get there then the ambition becomes staying there.

That's completely fair - but I wouldn't risk the club's future for it.

Out of interest, why is the FL your ambition? Chance to play some of the teams we used to play? Status? Quality of football? Bigger opposition attendances?

Would you rather be in a League Two relegation fight every season or be competitive in National League/NLN? And which do you think would be better for the club in the grand scheme of things?

I don't have a right answer, just interested.

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[Heaton out]

Just touching on the convo above, it is also my ambition to see us to get back to the FL, I have many reasons for this, bigger clubs, better attendances, better quality of football and refereeing, Proper rivalry, better stadia etc but one of the main reasons for me is I feel a town our size should have a full time football league club to support, with the backing of a dreaded council of course!

I know the putting us at risk question will be raised to this post and while I don't want that I do hate the thought of us being in the NLN and or at Blackwell for years and years to come. I don't think there is anything wrong with having ambition and I live in hope that one day we get back.

[comeondarlo]

Just touching on the convo above, it is also my ambition to see us to get back to the FL, I have many reasons for this, bigger clubs, better attendances, better quality of football and refereeing, Proper rivalry, better stadia etc but one of the main reasons for me is I feel a town our size should have a full time football league club to support, with the backing of a dreaded council of course!

I know the putting us at risk question will be raised to this post and while I don't want that I do hate the thought of us being in the NLN and or at Blackwell for years and years to come. I don't think there is anything wrong with having ambition and I live in hope that one day we get back.

My answer ish too. Status would be a biggie for me tbh
There’s risk in everything but managed risk is possible
Anyhow I continue to do the Euromillions twice weekly

[comeondarlo]

No just a realistic assessment of where we stand. I am happy to keep supporting my team as I have done for 55 years but I know progression under our current ownership model is unlikely. What I personally would like to see is Darlington Football Club regain EFL status at some time in the future. Nothing wrong with that aspiration but in the meantime we will have to just have to live in hope.

Over your 55 years "progress" has been very limited. Aside from the last decade it's been the very occasional promotion (or challenge for), followed by struggle. That was the case under previous ownership models - problem being that on at least 4 occasions, that ownership model nearly resulted in the club going bust.

10 years ago almost to the day we came as close as ever to losing the club and essentially had to start again. Pretty sure that if you'd said to most of us 10 years ago we'll be a stable club playing at the level we're now at, with minimal risk of getting plunged into financial insecurity again because we're generating money through the sustainable source of developing and selling players, we'd have taken that.

Getting back to the Football League might seem attractive, but once you're there what then? Do we constantly yearn for progress at all costs, even if it means risking the clubs future? Or do we accept that we have a team to support and to give the town some identity week after week, season after season? There will always be a ceiling - ours is now a couple of divisions below what it was 20 years ago but at least the floor beneath us is not made of paper.

Great post Spy but what is football without ambition!
I maintain that I’d like to see Darlo back in the football league before I die (I’m not sure it’ll happen tbh).
But that’s my ambition/goal, if we get there then the ambition becomes staying there.

That's completely fair - but I wouldn't risk the club's future for it.

Out of interest, why is the FL your ambition? Chance to play some of the teams we used to play? Status? Quality of football? Bigger opposition attendances?

Would you rather be in a League Two relegation fight every season or be competitive in National League/NLN? And which do you think would be better for the club in the grand scheme of things?

I don't have a right answer, just interested.

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Yes, personally I’d rather be in a relegation battle every year; it’s what I was brought up on tbh!

[Yarblockos]

That's completely fair - but I wouldn't risk the club's future for it.

Out of interest, why is the FL your ambition? Chance to play some of the teams we used to play? Status? Quality of football? Bigger opposition attendances?

Would you rather be in a League Two relegation fight every season or be competitive in National League/NLN? And which do you think would be better for the club in the grand scheme of things?

I don't have a right answer, just interested.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Absolutey, I'd take a battle to stay in the FL over being mid-table in the NLN any day. That is being competitive!

[Spyman]

Just touching on the convo above, it is also my ambition to see us to get back to the FL, I have many reasons for this, bigger clubs, better attendances, better quality of football and refereeing, Proper rivalry, better stadia etc but one of the main reasons for me is I feel a town our size should have a full time football league club to support, with the backing of a dreaded council of course!

I know the putting us at risk question will be raised to this post and while I don't want that I do hate the thought of us being in the NLN and or at Blackwell for years and years to come. I don't think there is anything wrong with having ambition and I live in hope that one day we get back.

My answer ish too. Status would be a biggie for me tbh
There’s risk in everything but managed risk is possible
Anyhow I continue to do the Euromillions twice weekly

Agreed - managed risk is possible. What I disagree with is putting all our eggs in the basket of an "investor" (they never are) to get there.

We need to be smart, patient, and lucky if we're going to get back to the Football League without risking it all going down the drain. It's definitely something to aim for and the more we develop players like Donawa and Charman the more likely we are to eventually strike gold with one that goes on to bring in some serious money.

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[eddie-rowles]

Its official undisclosed fee to Rochdale. Good luck and hope you make it higher up the league

[lo36789]

It's stepping stones, an awful lot can be said for organic bottom up, sustainable growth.

The reality is if you are in a relegation battle in EFL your crowds will likely be lower than if you are fighting for playoffs in the National League...even more so if you are perennial strugglers.

Focus upon building up your membership, focus on increasing participation, try and establish a more diverse interest.

Incredible that even now on Facebook comments the people who think because we are fan owned a transfer fee is undisclosed! I think any owners will get sight when they get the accounts!

[bga]

It's stepping stones, an awful lot can be said for organic bottom up, sustainable growth.

The reality is if you are in a relegation battle in EFL your crowds will likely be lower than if you are fighting for playoffs in the National League...even more so if you are perennial strugglers.

Focus upon building up your membership, focus on increasing participation, try and establish a more diverse interest.

Incredible that even now on Facebook comments the people who think because we are fan owned a transfer fee is undisclosed! I think any owners will get sight when they get the accounts!

As long as we don't sell any other players in the same 12-months accounts period!