When is null & void.......

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Alfie
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When is null & void.......

Post by Alfie » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:11 am

....not null & void.

When NLN/S clubs who lost the vote cobble together a competition to keep their promotion hopes alive.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... sed-format

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by dfcdfcdfc » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:49 am

Don't see how they can use results from this season as they have been expunged with N&V vote!?

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by bga » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:33 am

dfcdfcdfc wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:49 am
Don't see how they can use results from this season as they have been expunged with N&V vote!?
[/quote
Subject to FA ratification has that happened yet?

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by ex-exile » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:38 am

It seems some clubs cannot accept the vote by the majority, it seems that self interest is more important to them.For the league to allow it with promotion is ridiculous.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by divas » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:58 am

I bet the national league are over the moon at the prospect of 48 games next season.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by bigdavethemaddog » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:34 pm

officially its not null and void until FA ratify it which i dont believe they have yet

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by LoidLucan » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:44 pm

They may not have to increase the size of the NL so much if Dover are expelled for refusing to play. The farce continues with Kings Lynn already placing six players on furlough with another six likely to follow next week cos they're skint. At the same time they've brought in a loanee to help cover for the furloughed players.
Last edited by LoidLucan on Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by jjljks » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:45 pm

ex-exile wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:38 am
It seems some clubs cannot accept the vote by the majority, it seems that self interest is more important to them.For the league to allow it with promotion is ridiculous.
Is Donald Trump involved with these clubs? :lol:

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When is null & void.......

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:58 pm

ex-exile wrote:It seems some clubs cannot accept the vote by the majority, it seems that self interest is more important to them.For the league to allow it with promotion is ridiculous.
Playing Devil’s Advocate, if they can carry on, and accept the financial risks that come with that, what’s wrong with that?

Provided clubs who couldn’t carry on aren’t penalised unfairly, I don’t actually have an issue with it.
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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by bga » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:45 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:58 pm
ex-exile wrote:It seems some clubs cannot accept the vote by the majority, it seems that self interest is more important to them.For the league to allow it with promotion is ridiculous.
Playing Devil’s Advocate, if they can carry on, and accept the financial risks that come with that, what’s wrong with that?

Provided clubs who couldn’t carry on aren’t penalised unfairly, I don’t actually have an issue with it.
The National League Management Committee certainly lack credibility at the moment. Surely this position would worsen if they overrode the majority vote
to end to null and void the season.
How can you justify a minority of clubs potentially overturning the decision?

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When is null & void.......

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:54 pm

bga wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:58 pm
ex-exile wrote:It seems some clubs cannot accept the vote by the majority, it seems that self interest is more important to them.For the league to allow it with promotion is ridiculous.
Playing Devil’s Advocate, if they can carry on, and accept the financial risks that come with that, what’s wrong with that?

Provided clubs who couldn’t carry on aren’t penalised unfairly, I don’t actually have an issue with it.
The National League Management Committee certainly lack credibility at the moment. Surely this position would worsen if they overrode the majority vote
to end to null and void the season.
How can you justify a minority of clubs potentially overturning the decision?
That’s a very misleading and inaccurate characterisation of what is being proposed.

It would not be overturning a vote. The National League North and South seasons would still be over, which was what was voted for. The clubs who can’t afford to carry on wouldn’t have to put themselves at risk, they can carry on mothballing themselves until next season.

Instead, this would be allowing clubs who wish to keep playing to do so in another competition. Clubs who voted to stop playing can’t complain, as they don’t want to play anyway.

Now so long as clubs like ourselves aren’t unfairly penalised (such as relegating sides from Step 2, as an example), I can’t see any reason to object.
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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by lo36789 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:58 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:54 pm
Now so long as clubs like ourselves aren’t unfairly penalised (such as relegating sides from Step 2, as an example), I can’t see any reason to object.
Toddler mentality..."I don't want the toy to play with it I just want it so nobody else can have it"

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by bga » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:10 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:54 pm
bga wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:58 pm
ex-exile wrote:It seems some clubs cannot accept the vote by the majority, it seems that self interest is more important to them.For the league to allow it with promotion is ridiculous.
Playing Devil’s Advocate, if they can carry on, and accept the financial risks that come with that, what’s wrong with that?

Provided clubs who couldn’t carry on aren’t penalised unfairly, I don’t actually have an issue with it.
The National League Management Committee certainly lack credibility at the moment. Surely this position would worsen if they overrode the majority vote
to end to null and void the season.
How can you justify a minority of clubs potentially overturning the decision?
That’s a very misleading and inaccurate characterisation of what is being proposed.

It would not be overturning a vote. The National League North and South seasons would still be over, which was what was voted for. The clubs who can’t afford to carry on wouldn’t have to put themselves at risk, they can carry on mothballing themselves until next season.

Instead, this would be allowing clubs who wish to keep playing to do so in another competition. Clubs who voted to stop playing can’t complain, as they don’t want to play anyway.

Now so long as clubs like ourselves aren’t unfairly penalised (such as relegating sides from Step 2, as an example), I can’t see any reason to object.
My point was a vote for null and void included the fact that clubs voted for no Promotion or Relegation. This proposal introduces the concept of promotion so it is relevant.

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When is null & void.......

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:29 pm

I don’t agree.

Here's the resolution that was voted on:
https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/na ... ions-65069
That, conditional upon Resolution 1 being passed, the 2020/21 Playing Season of the National League North and the National League South (Step 2) shall immediately end on the date this Resolution 3 is passed and be declared null and void and subject to the approval of The Football Association those Regulations that provide for promotion and relegation to and from Step 2 be suspended for the 2020/21 Playing Season.
The key word there is "suspended". It is open to interpretation, but to me "suspended" in that context means promotion/relegation has been stopped, but could be resumed. All this resolution finishes is the North/South seasons. So promotion and relegation could be re-applied in any new competition.

Certainly at no point does it explicitly rule out promotion and relegation in any context this season. All this resolution rules out is promotion/relegation based on the league competition we started in October.

If the league chooses to re-apply promotion and relegation to a new competition, I wouldn't mind. It won't materially affect us as we wouldn't continue playing. The idea of "we can't get promoted, so no one can" would be plain childish.

Put this way, if we wanted to play on and had a decent chance of promotion, in this scenario we would be arguing in exactly the same manner as Gloucester and AFC Fylde are doing now.

I don’t believe relegation should be applied (at least not to clubs who’ve voted to stop playing). But no issue with promotion at all among clubs who are capable of continuing.
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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by bga » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:05 pm

I agree Gramps that "suspended" (promotion and relegation) is the key word, but is also open to interpretation. I interpret it as promotion/relegation not applying ( suspended) to NLN/NLS for season, so we will have to agree to differ.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by eek » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:10 pm

bga wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:05 pm
I agree Gramps that "suspended" (promotion and relegation) is the key word, but is also open to interpretation. I interpret it as promotion/relegation not applying ( suspended) to NLN/NLS for season, so we will have to agree to differ.
+1 - what word could be used other than suspended if promotion / relegation is to be temporarily stop in the 20/21 season but it continues in future seasons.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:14 pm

Re steps two finishing, how long to the F.A. need to make a decision? They are so slow.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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When is null & void.......

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:44 pm

bga wrote:I agree Gramps that "suspended" (promotion and relegation) is the key word, but is also open to interpretation. I interpret it as promotion/relegation not applying ( suspended) to NLN/NLS for season, so we will have to agree to differ.
But it wouldn’t be applying to the National League North/South.

It would be applied to the new competition.
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When is null & void.......

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:49 pm

eek wrote:
bga wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:05 pm
I agree Gramps that "suspended" (promotion and relegation) is the key word, but is also open to interpretation. I interpret it as promotion/relegation not applying ( suspended) to NLN/NLS for season, so we will have to agree to differ.
+1 - what word could be used other than suspended if promotion / relegation is to be temporarily stop in the 20/21 season but it continues in future seasons.
The vote was in regards to the National League North and South, not the new competition.

As such promotion could be applied to the new competition, as this is nothing to do with the resolution that was voted on.

We voted not to have promotion/relegation from the National League North/South. There’s nothing in there to say promotion couldn’t apply to a new Step 2 competition.
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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by m62exile » Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:40 pm

Devils advocate but if it’s a new competition why should it be placed at step 2?

At the last count it was down to 16 interested teams I think, and they’re trying to claim 2 promotion spots out of that.

From a Darlo point of view I’d be disappointed if the outcome is that we lose the revenue from home games if next season’s league has fewer teams.


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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by bga » Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:54 pm

m62exile wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:40 pm
Devils advocate but if it’s a new competition why should it be placed at step 2?

At the last count it was down to 16 interested teams I think, and they’re trying to claim 2 promotion spots out of that.

From a Darlo point of view I’d be disappointed if the outcome is that we lose the revenue from home games if next season’s league has fewer teams.


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Both good points you raised. Especially if the home game ended up being against York City then we would be financially disadvantaged.

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When is null & void.......

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:25 pm

m62exile wrote:Devils advocate but if it’s a new competition why should it be placed at step 2?
Because the teams involved are Step 2 teams, haven’t been relegated, and are missing out through no fault of their own. Are you saying it should be outside of the pyramid system altogether?

If so, why? The clubs involved haven’t done anything wrong.
m62exile wrote: At the last count it was down to 16 interested teams I think, and they’re trying to claim 2 promotion spots out of that.

From a Darlo point of view I’d be disappointed if the outcome is that we lose the revenue from home games if next season’s league has fewer teams.
I understand the point but that could happen for a number of reasons. Clubs in the National League are missing out on one home fixture this season after Macclesfield went pop.

NLS is 21 teams so teams are missing out there. As there was a NLS vacancy the National League could have moved Gloucester across in the summer, so we’d have missed out there.

I suppose the teams wanting to compete would also argue they’re missing out on revenue by missing out on a potential promotion.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:28 pm

bga wrote:
m62exile wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:40 pm
Devils advocate but if it’s a new competition why should it be placed at step 2?

At the last count it was down to 16 interested teams I think, and they’re trying to claim 2 promotion spots out of that.

From a Darlo point of view I’d be disappointed if the outcome is that we lose the revenue from home games if next season’s league has fewer teams.


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Both good points you raised. Especially if the home game ended up being against York City then we would be financially disadvantaged.
We’d miss out financially if York got promoted in a regular season.

That’s not being “financially disadvantaged”. That’s just life.
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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by lo36789 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:00 pm

I fully expect that vacancies in the NLS will be filled this summer.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by Old Git » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:04 pm

No problem with those who want to play on doing so. We have achieved our desire to stop playing this season but let those who wish to play on under the loan system do so it’s their money they are using after all.
We will regroup and return stronger in August with hopefully no financial problems and go again with crowds in attendance.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:22 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:04 pm
No problem with those who want to play on doing so. We have achieved our desire to stop playing this season but let those who wish to play on under the loan system do so it’s their money they are using after all.
We will regroup and return stronger in August with hopefully no financial problems and go again with crowds in attendance.
Plus might get rid of a couple of good competitors for next season

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by JE93 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:49 pm

FA alliance Committee has today ratified the decision to Null and Void step 2.

It also rejected the idea of a mini league put forward by the 15 or 16 clubs at step 2. - https://www.thefa.com/news/2021/mar/12/ ... e-20210312

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by onewayup » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:07 pm

Absolutely the correct decision for the integrity of the national league north/south.
The national league management had the balls to back their original decision eventually,
After the vote was null and void by the majority of clubs.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by lo36789 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:28 pm

onewayup wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:07 pm
Absolutely the correct decision for the integrity of the national league north/south.
I am not really sure how the integrity of the competition would have been damaged if given the circumstances clubs that wanted to play on had.

I would actually argue that the removal of threat of relegation from the division above is more damaging to the integrity of the National League than the alternative but I wasn't really that bothered as long as it didn't affect us.

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Re: When is null & void.......

Post by LoidLucan » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:31 pm

I guarantee that the dork from Dorking will still be whining this time next year.

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