Attendance

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Darlopartisan
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Attendance

Post by Darlopartisan » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:30 pm

With preseason about to start,What’s the latest rules as on attending games? Anyone.

lo36789
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Re: Attendance

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:19 pm

Darlopartisan wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:30 pm
With preseason about to start,What’s the latest rules as on attending games? Anyone.
50% capacity at home.

Away it will be lower of 50% capacity and 1,000 people if against teams in divisions below is.

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Re: Attendance

Post by Darlopartisan » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:22 pm

Thanks for that 👍

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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:28 pm

Darlopartisan wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:30 pm
With preseason about to start,What’s the latest rules as on attending games? Anyone.
Hopefully by the time we play Northallerton on July 20th, we'll be restriction free!
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Re: Attendance

Post by joejaques » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:04 am

quaker4life wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:28 pm
Darlopartisan wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:30 pm
With preseason about to start,What’s the latest rules as on attending games? Anyone.
Hopefully by the time we play Northallerton on July 20th, we'll be restriction free!
And I bet you believe in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy. :roll:
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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:15 pm

joejaques wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:04 am
quaker4life wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:28 pm
Darlopartisan wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:30 pm
With preseason about to start,What’s the latest rules as on attending games? Anyone.
Hopefully by the time we play Northallerton on July 20th, we'll be restriction free!
And I bet you believe in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy. :roll:
They're both real, Chris told me so.

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Lawman3
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Re: Attendance

Post by Lawman3 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:56 pm

I think that the Delta variant could be the fly in the ointment. I've heard that (as well as cases spiralling in young people and schools) a number of Middlesbrough Police Officers (who have been double jabbed) are now on the sick. I wouldn't be surprised if the roadmap is further delayed.
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Re: Attendance

Post by bga » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:54 pm

Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I think that the Delta variant could be the fly in the ointment. I've heard that (as well as cases spiralling in young people and schools) a number of Middlesbrough Police Officers (who have been double jabbed) are now on the sick. I wouldn't be surprised if the roadmap is further delayed.
Interesting but don't the results from the various test events at large gatherings show a very small rate of infection?

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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:09 pm

bga wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:54 pm
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I think that the Delta variant could be the fly in the ointment. I've heard that (as well as cases spiralling in young people and schools) a number of Middlesbrough Police Officers (who have been double jabbed) are now on the sick. I wouldn't be surprised if the roadmap is further delayed.
Interesting but don't the results from the various test events at large gatherings show a very small rate of infection?
Next to no infections and sure not aware of anyone been seriously ill or dead after attending one
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:16 pm

Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I think that the Delta variant could be the fly in the ointment. I've heard that (as well as cases spiralling in young people and schools) a number of Middlesbrough Police Officers (who have been double jabbed) are now on the sick. I wouldn't be surprised if the roadmap is further delayed.
On what basis, to get more people the vacine? A good number if over 50s have had both doses, alot of young people who aint at risk have had the 1st. Cant keep delaying thing on the basis of rising cases which aint translating to deaths or hospitalisations, restrictions will go on forever. Its all down to what witty and sage think as they call the shots
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Lawman3
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Re: Attendance

Post by Lawman3 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:09 pm
bga wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:54 pm
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I think that the Delta variant could be the fly in the ointment. I've heard that (as well as cases spiralling in young people and schools) a number of Middlesbrough Police Officers (who have been double jabbed) are now on the sick. I wouldn't be surprised if the roadmap is further delayed.
Interesting but don't the results from the various test events at large gatherings show a very small rate of infection?
Next to no infections and sure not aware of anyone been seriously ill or dead after attending one
I think things have moved on since, as cases are now climbing. If they ran those tests now it's likely the data would be different - I think the last test event was on 15th May, before the prevalence of the Delta variant.

Let's hope the vaccination programme mitigates the impact of infections. I'm clinically vulnerable myself so am keeping a keen eye on the infection and hospitalisation rates. From what I see, at present, I'd be sceptical about the lifting of restrictions.
Last edited by Lawman3 on Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lawman3
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Re: Attendance

Post by Lawman3 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:35 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:16 pm
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I think that the Delta variant could be the fly in the ointment. I've heard that (as well as cases spiralling in young people and schools) a number of Middlesbrough Police Officers (who have been double jabbed) are now on the sick. I wouldn't be surprised if the roadmap is further delayed.
On what basis, to get more people the vacine? A good number if over 50s have had both doses, alot of young people who aint at risk have had the 1st. Cant keep delaying thing on the basis of rising cases which aint translating to deaths or hospitalisations, restrictions will go on forever. Its all down to what witty and sage think as they call the shots
One problem is that things evolve quickly and there's a lack of data. Initial reports suggest that the vaccines are holding up against the Delta variant, though I had discussions with my specialist who suggested that we wouldn't really know for a few weeks. It does seem as if rising cases are in younger people - whether these translate into hospitalisations only time will tell. The impact on health with Long Covid is also a concern (though widely apocryphal, rather than data-driven). It does seem to be rife in schools again, and I know of local schools that are fully or partially closed.

I'm not advocating another lockdown, but I think we need to avoid rushing back to normality if its going to create further problems down the line.
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loan_star
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Re: Attendance

Post by loan_star » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:39 pm

Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm
I'm clinically vulnerable myself so am keeping a keen eye on the infection and hospitalisation rates. From what I see, at present, I'd be sceptical about the lifting of restrictions.
In your own personal circumstances you are right to be concerned but for the rest of us who aren't in the vulnerable bracket there should be no reason to stop the restrictions being lifted on time because although infections are quite high, hospitalisations are not.

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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:14 pm

At some point the restrictions will have to be lifted, for obvious economic and sociological reasons we cannot continue to kick the can down the road indefinitely, a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere.

As the scientists have said there is no getting rid of it, the vaccines are designed to sever the link between the virus and hospitalisation and death unfortunately they can't stop people catching it.

The emphasis will shift to personal responsibility rather than government imposed restrictions. I understand the concerns stated above for those who are clinically vulnerable but I've seen a scientist urge people not be fixated on the case numbers but focus on the number of hospitalisation and deaths which are now substantially lower.

I've seen calls for the daily publication of case numbers to be scrapped as they are now useless something which I tend to agree with.
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lo36789
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Re: Attendance

Post by lo36789 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:44 pm

There is an article about Andrew Marr. He contracted Covid after being double jabbed. He effectively had two days of cold like symptoms, he admits he was ill and off work, but then after that no after effects.

The link between cases and hospitalisations does appears to have been severed. The concern I see with rising case numbers is that the more a disease circulates the more likely it is to mutate and the vaccine is not effective against the 'next' mutation.

With the majority of other countries relaxing restrictions. There are instances where 'if vaccinated then...' but this will soften, once enough people have been given the opportunity for a vaccine it will be left to personal responsibility to get it or not. The NHS won't be at risk of being overwhelmed the impact will just be on those who choose not to take their opportunity.

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Re: Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:47 am

loan_star wrote:
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm
I'm clinically vulnerable myself so am keeping a keen eye on the infection and hospitalisation rates. From what I see, at present, I'd be sceptical about the lifting of restrictions.
In your own personal circumstances you are right to be concerned but for the rest of us who aren't in the vulnerable bracket there should be no reason to stop the restrictions being lifted on time because although infections are quite high, hospitalisations are not.
While I agree with the basic premise that we can’t carry on restrictions forever and a day, particularly now most are vaccinated, I’d be very concerned about any sort of re-opening that left vulnerable people worried about stepping outside.

You’d essentially be creating a two-tier society. No one should be worried about going to a football match and catching a virus that could potentially kill them.

Of course there’s risk attached to everything we do, but by the same logic, I’d say society has a responsibility to ensure everyone can do what they want freely. So I’d say there needs to be an element of caution in this. I’d certainly disagree with the GB News-types, who seem to think “Go wild on July 19th and sod the consequences”.

To take Darlington FC as an example, I would hope when re-opening for fans, measures are taken to ensure everyone, including the most vulnerable, are able to attend.
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:55 am

loan_star wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:39 pm
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm
I'm clinically vulnerable myself so am keeping a keen eye on the infection and hospitalisation rates. From what I see, at present, I'd be sceptical about the lifting of restrictions.
In your own personal circumstances you are right to be concerned but for the rest of us who aren't in the vulnerable bracket there should be no reason to stop the restrictions being lifted on time because although infections are quite high, hospitalisations are not.
Exactly this. If the vunrable want to continue to isolate and be cautious, thats up to them but why should the rest of us whilst the economy gets destroyed and theres more health effects due to never ending lockdowns
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:58 am

quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:14 pm
At some point the restrictions will have to be lifted, for obvious economic and sociological reasons we cannot continue to kick the can down the road indefinitely, a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere.

As the scientists have said there is no getting rid of it, the vaccines are designed to sever the link between the virus and hospitalisation and death unfortunately they can't stop people catching it.

The emphasis will shift to personal responsibility rather than government imposed restrictions. I understand the concerns stated above for those who are clinically vulnerable but I've seen a scientist urge people not be fixated on the case numbers but focus on the number of hospitalisation and deaths which are now substantially lower.

I've seen calls for the daily publication of case numbers to be scrapped as they are now useless something which I tend to agree with.
Theres so many scientists poking there nose in, some say end restrictions and learn to live with it, vacines work etc and theres utter doom mongers like sage who will be panicking now with rising case numbers and dont seem to want restrictions to end and wont be happy until theres 0 cases and deaths, they seem to call the shots, not there business or life been destroyed by restrictions
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super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Attendance

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:12 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:47 am
loan_star wrote:
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm
I'm clinically vulnerable myself so am keeping a keen eye on the infection and hospitalisation rates. From what I see, at present, I'd be sceptical about the lifting of restrictions.
In your own personal circumstances you are right to be concerned but for the rest of us who aren't in the vulnerable bracket there should be no reason to stop the restrictions being lifted on time because although infections are quite high, hospitalisations are not.
While I agree with the basic premise that we can’t carry on restrictions forever and a day, particularly now most are vaccinated, I’d be very concerned about any sort of re-opening that left vulnerable people worried about stepping outside.

You’d essentially be creating a two-tier society. No one should be worried about going to a football match and catching a virus that could potentially kill them.

Of course there’s risk attached to everything we do, but by the same logic, I’d say society has a responsibility to ensure everyone can do what they want freely. So I’d say there needs to be an element of caution in this. I’d certainly disagree with the GB News-types, who seem to think “Go wild on July 19th and sod the consequences”.

To take Darlington FC as an example, I would hope when re-opening for fans, measures are taken to ensure everyone, including the most vulnerable, are able to attend.
The most vulnerable will still be at risk though, no matter what the club do. Maybe they could reduce that risk but in reality can they?

Seems around 400 Scottish fans with tickets at Wembley have been found positive after the event, these either had two jabs or a negative test.

I am not sure what the answer is but doesn't sound like clubs around the country can make things safe. If I was high risk then I probably would not go to a game, especially busy ones. Not the nicest of answers but I don't believe we should tell people it's Covid safe when it's not.

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Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:28 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:12 am
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:47 am
loan_star wrote:
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm
I'm clinically vulnerable myself so am keeping a keen eye on the infection and hospitalisation rates. From what I see, at present, I'd be sceptical about the lifting of restrictions.
In your own personal circumstances you are right to be concerned but for the rest of us who aren't in the vulnerable bracket there should be no reason to stop the restrictions being lifted on time because although infections are quite high, hospitalisations are not.
While I agree with the basic premise that we can’t carry on restrictions forever and a day, particularly now most are vaccinated, I’d be very concerned about any sort of re-opening that left vulnerable people worried about stepping outside.

You’d essentially be creating a two-tier society. No one should be worried about going to a football match and catching a virus that could potentially kill them.

Of course there’s risk attached to everything we do, but by the same logic, I’d say society has a responsibility to ensure everyone can do what they want freely. So I’d say there needs to be an element of caution in this. I’d certainly disagree with the GB News-types, who seem to think “Go wild on July 19th and sod the consequences”.

To take Darlington FC as an example, I would hope when re-opening for fans, measures are taken to ensure everyone, including the most vulnerable, are able to attend.
The most vulnerable will still be at risk though, no matter what the club do. Maybe they could reduce that risk but in reality can they?

Seems around 400 Scottish fans with tickets at Wembley have been found positive after the event, these either had two jabs or a negative test.

I am not sure what the answer is but doesn't sound like clubs around the country can make things safe. If I was high risk then I probably would not go to a game, especially busy ones. Not the nicest of answers but I don't believe we should tell people it's Covid safe when it's not.

Similar to my stand point.
I know I would not have survived had I caught Covid pre having my jabs but having been to the last 2 KR matches with Covid restrictions in place my biggest fear now is that so many were determined to ignore the directions given such as follow a 1 way system. Now to me that meant I had to go up and down steps to get to the bathroom which I do not have to do from my normal seat,(and I am not good with steps), but the number of people going "the wrong way round" was quite staggering and all because of an extra 10-20 yards walk.
Also, parts of the East stand, which is standing not seated, instead of standing in the section they were allocated to people all grouped into 2 areas near the halfway line rather than spread the length of the pitch which was divided into 5 sections.
The last point was, all stand sections were A,B,C,D, and E.
Section A were meant to be in place 90 minutes before kick off,(few were) and then B 80 minutes before, and so on. At the end A were to leave first with E last. Simply did not happen. "I don't want to wait 20 minutes after the game ends was the norm !!!!

If people can't get a grip on simple rules and are so selfish they just don't give a damn then I do not see any way the government can relax and just say "Get on with life".
Like it or not, the "New Norm" must differ from the "Old norm" in some ways. Until selfish and thicko's get that into their heads and start to comply along with the rest who believe we need to do what we can to help the NHS cope then the government are tasked with making sure that the NHS are not swamped.

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Re: Attendance

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:00 am

I understand why you may have that stand point and appreciate the personal emotion in what you have said.

However calling people selfish and thicko's isn't really going to win people around to what you are saying.

At the moment the NHS is being hit hard because we had lockdowns and not because of Covid cases currently, that isn't me having an opinion on lockdowns it just facts of the current situation. Many want the old norm and many may not, for me not to go to the old norm would need to understand what that means and what are the benefits.

If the England v Scotland was the new norm and over 400 Scotland fans got Covid anyhow, what was the point. However the difference with England v Scotland is in my guess most of those who caught Covid, were likely to have caught it on the planes, trains, tubes to the match as opposed to in the ground itself. The photos I have seen of no social distance on the train, Leicester square, airplanes etc. would have been a miracle for it not to happen, especially as they had mixed in thousands of Scots who were not going to the game (so no double jab/test) but were just having the couple of days away.

The other side of it is at the moment Flu is a bigger killer than Covid, now this is just currently and things can change but struggle to see why rules for Covid would be in place if it continues at 1% of deaths and less than Flu etc.

I can argue both sides to be honest and sitting on the fence currently, not convinced you are going to win the "New Norm" long term argument though. The next couple of months will make any decisions, hospital and deaths go sky high then a shout for new norm, if they don't then it will be old norm, I would think.

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Re: Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:09 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:47 am
loan_star wrote:
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm
I'm clinically vulnerable myself so am keeping a keen eye on the infection and hospitalisation rates. From what I see, at present, I'd be sceptical about the lifting of restrictions.
In your own personal circumstances you are right to be concerned but for the rest of us who aren't in the vulnerable bracket there should be no reason to stop the restrictions being lifted on time because although infections are quite high, hospitalisations are not.
While I agree with the basic premise that we can’t carry on restrictions forever and a day, particularly now most are vaccinated, I’d be very concerned about any sort of re-opening that left vulnerable people worried about stepping outside.

You’d essentially be creating a two-tier society. No one should be worried about going to a football match and catching a virus that could potentially kill them.

Of course there’s risk attached to everything we do, but by the same logic, I’d say society has a responsibility to ensure everyone can do what they want freely. So I’d say there needs to be an element of caution in this. I’d certainly disagree with the GB News-types, who seem to think “Go wild on July 19th and sod the consequences”.

To take Darlington FC as an example, I would hope when re-opening for fans, measures are taken to ensure everyone, including the most vulnerable, are able to attend.
The most vulnerable will still be at risk though, no matter what the club do. Maybe they could reduce that risk but in reality can they?

Seems around 400 Scottish fans with tickets at Wembley have been found positive after the event, these either had two jabs or a negative test.

I am not sure what the answer is but doesn't sound like clubs around the country can make things safe. If I was high risk then I probably would not go to a game, especially busy ones. Not the nicest of answers but I don't believe we should tell people it's Covid safe when it's not.
Not sure about you, but I don’t want to live in a society which deliberately excludes certain people purely for convenience of others.

For some to say: “I want to go to a football match, so open it up, and I don’t care if the elderly and vulnerable can’t come” isn’t acceptable to me.

Everyone should be able to do as they wish once all restrictions are lifted. Otherwise we’re living in a system where some people are seen as less important than others. Some will argue that was the case pre-COVID, but you get my point.

Just going back to the way things were isn’t acceptable if some people can’t get involved in society because of the risk to their health.

I don’t know what the answer is to be honest, but it’s certainly not the individualistic, divisive two-tier system being advocated by others in this thread (all of whom are low risk I hasten to add).
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Re: Attendance

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:08 am

Some points I agree and some points I may disagree, the only thing I can say for definite is that no one will be 100% safe. So anyone looking for that won't get it and I would rather any rules don't hide behind Covid safe etc. as there is no such thing.

We also have a decent chunk of young supporters these days and we would always like to increase this. We won't be demanding they get jabs or tests every game as it simply won't work, at that point not sure that any other restrictions will help.

Basically I don't see a way of making this safe for anyone nervous, the club can perhaps put some rules in on a vaccine passport or test to get in but I don't think the government will be. Not sure a 6th tier club with limited volunteers and fans can or should implement anything either.

However I see your point on anyone who feels vulnerable and that does make this not an easy situation. I don't have an easy answer that works for all.

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Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:29 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:00 am
I understand why you may have that stand point and appreciate the personal emotion in what you have said.

However calling people selfish and thicko's isn't really going to win people around to what you are saying.

At the moment the NHS is being hit hard because we had lockdowns and not because of Covid cases currently, that isn't me having an opinion on lockdowns it just facts of the current situation. Many want the old norm and many may not, for me not to go to the old norm would need to understand what that means and what are the benefits.

If the England v Scotland was the new norm and over 400 Scotland fans got Covid anyhow, what was the point. However the difference with England v Scotland is in my guess most of those who caught Covid, were likely to have caught it on the planes, trains, tubes to the match as opposed to in the ground itself. The photos I have seen of no social distance on the train, Leicester square, airplanes etc. would have been a miracle for it not to happen, especially as they had mixed in thousands of Scots who were not going to the game (so no double jab/test) but were just having the couple of days away.

The other side of it is at the moment Flu is a bigger killer than Covid, now this is just currently and things can change but struggle to see why rules for Covid would be in place if it continues at 1% of deaths and less than Flu etc.

I can argue both sides to be honest and sitting on the fence currently, not convinced you are going to win the "New Norm" long term argument though. The next couple of months will make any decisions, hospital and deaths go sky high then a shout for new norm, if they don't then it will be old norm, I would think.
It may upset some to use the word thick, but what I saw at the 2 KR matches showed quite clearly that people either did not care or they were 2 stupid to understand why the match was planned as it was.
The East stand in particular was crazy. A and E sections had more or less the normal amount of fans who like to be along the touchline. B & D were virtually empty, while C,(along the halfway line), was bulging. Remembering that only season pass holders were there can all these people really get so close to the centre in "normal" times when people are allowed to pay on the gate? Of course they can't. They spread into B & D, so why not do that when fewer are in the ground?
Refusing to accept the new way of doing things makes it far more likely the clubs will be held at a % of supporters rather than be allowed a full capacity.
If we turn what happened at KR towards Darlo, if we are allowed 1000 in the ground you near enough manage to cater for all pass holders,(though not in their chosen spot), if those going in then say "sod it I am going where I want not into the "away" end as directed. What happens if the capacity is then reduced further. The club could not afford to run on say 25% capacity with no income from food and drink, and what of the problems people who have passes but could not attend games? Sure they would love it.
Calling people thick, may seem harsh, but, MY OPINION, the way people are behaving, it is accurate.
I wish I knew how to link photo's because 1 I have got of Wembley way v Germany is disgusting. It is packed and not 1 person either wearing a mask nor distancing.

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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:39 am

Who gives a toss if folk are not social distanceing or
Wearing masks, which aint even fully protective against covid, if we are going to keep up with such draconian measures forever whats the point of folk been vacinated, we are only human agyer all. I would call someone a idiot thats refused a vacine, some will be on religious grounds, some conspiracy theory idiots and others just been auckward. Im also sick of hearing that term covid safe, surely crumbling terracing, falling masonary or poor segregation is more of a hazard at a non league football ground!
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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loan_star
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Re: Attendance

Post by loan_star » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:46 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:09 am
For some to say: “I want to go to a football match, so open it up, and I don’t care if the elderly and vulnerable can’t come” isn’t acceptable to me.

Everyone should be able to do as they wish once all restrictions are lifted. Otherwise we’re living in a system where some people are seen as less important than others. Some will argue that was the case pre-COVID, but you get my point.

Just going back to the way things were isn’t acceptable if some people can’t get involved in society because of the risk to their health.

I don’t know what the answer is to be honest, but it’s certainly not the individualistic, divisive two-tier system being advocated by others in this thread (all of whom are low risk I hasten to add).
We already have a two tier system, people who choose to fill their lungs with nicotine aren't allowed to do so at a football match. Shouldn't it be their right to do so in the open air? Should we have summer football so those that suffer from winter ailments are able to attend?
You cant stop the majority of society from living their lives as normal as possible just because a small minority are more susceptible to viruses.

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Re: Attendance

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:31 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:29 am
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:00 am
I understand why you may have that stand point and appreciate the personal emotion in what you have said.

However calling people selfish and thicko's isn't really going to win people around to what you are saying.

At the moment the NHS is being hit hard because we had lockdowns and not because of Covid cases currently, that isn't me having an opinion on lockdowns it just facts of the current situation. Many want the old norm and many may not, for me not to go to the old norm would need to understand what that means and what are the benefits.

If the England v Scotland was the new norm and over 400 Scotland fans got Covid anyhow, what was the point. However the difference with England v Scotland is in my guess most of those who caught Covid, were likely to have caught it on the planes, trains, tubes to the match as opposed to in the ground itself. The photos I have seen of no social distance on the train, Leicester square, airplanes etc. would have been a miracle for it not to happen, especially as they had mixed in thousands of Scots who were not going to the game (so no double jab/test) but were just having the couple of days away.

The other side of it is at the moment Flu is a bigger killer than Covid, now this is just currently and things can change but struggle to see why rules for Covid would be in place if it continues at 1% of deaths and less than Flu etc.

I can argue both sides to be honest and sitting on the fence currently, not convinced you are going to win the "New Norm" long term argument though. The next couple of months will make any decisions, hospital and deaths go sky high then a shout for new norm, if they don't then it will be old norm, I would think.
It may upset some to use the word thick, but what I saw at the 2 KR matches showed quite clearly that people either did not care or they were 2 stupid to understand why the match was planned as it was.
The East stand in particular was crazy. A and E sections had more or less the normal amount of fans who like to be along the touchline. B & D were virtually empty, while C,(along the halfway line), was bulging. Remembering that only season pass holders were there can all these people really get so close to the centre in "normal" times when people are allowed to pay on the gate? Of course they can't. They spread into B & D, so why not do that when fewer are in the ground?
Refusing to accept the new way of doing things makes it far more likely the clubs will be held at a % of supporters rather than be allowed a full capacity.
If we turn what happened at KR towards Darlo, if we are allowed 1000 in the ground you near enough manage to cater for all pass holders,(though not in their chosen spot), if those going in then say "sod it I am going where I want not into the "away" end as directed. What happens if the capacity is then reduced further. The club could not afford to run on say 25% capacity with no income from food and drink, and what of the problems people who have passes but could not attend games? Sure they would love it.
Calling people thick, may seem harsh, but, MY OPINION, the way people are behaving, it is accurate.
I wish I knew how to link photo's because 1 I have got of Wembley way v Germany is disgusting. It is packed and not 1 person either wearing a mask nor distancing.
I can see the emotion in your response and understand your coming from a vulnerable point of view.

Why would people wear masks or social distancing outside, maybe the social distancing as everyone is jumping on each other now at the games and basically the media, government, footballers, good chunk of people - don't care anymore. In fact they are actively encouraging it and saying it's great to see these scenes again.

I think you are going to find that the government are going to remove most rules, people are stuffed in pubs/clubs now on game days jumping all over each other. A large chunk are not concerned anymore and the government will be trying to back off from restrictions.

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Re: Attendance

Post by H1987 » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:36 pm

I think it's all well and good saying 'what good are vaccines if we can't return to normal' while you are sitting comfortably, double vaccinated. Vast swathes of Britain are not yet. The biggest problem this country has, and covid has further highlighted, is selfishness. Just because you've had your vaccine, you can't demand all of society return to normal at the drop of a hat because now it suits you. Vaccines are currently moving at around half the pace they were earlier in the year. Most under 40 aren't double vaccinated yet. Kids don't have any at all (and while it might not be making them sick, they can easily pass it on to others).

I'd be hopeful for later in the year, but imagine capacities will begin as reduced. I'm not sure the earlier poster is right about stupidity. It's pure selfishness. If you opened up Blackwell on limited capacity, idiots would congregate in certain sections and leave others wide open. I don't think it's stupidity, I think they know what they're doing is wrong. They just don't care. It's not a Darlington issue, it's a wider societal issue. A significant part of the population behaves like entitled babies who think rules shouldn't apply to them.

I can't wait until everything is back to normal, but watching the entitled demand perfect normality from July is starting to irritate me. Life isn't so bad right now, and if carrying on like this for a few extra months saves lives and makes sure everyone has that same level of protection from the virus, then so be it. The term 'freedom day' is absurd.

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Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:29 pm

loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:09 am
For some to say: “I want to go to a football match, so open it up, and I don’t care if the elderly and vulnerable can’t come” isn’t acceptable to me.

Everyone should be able to do as they wish once all restrictions are lifted. Otherwise we’re living in a system where some people are seen as less important than others. Some will argue that was the case pre-COVID, but you get my point.

Just going back to the way things were isn’t acceptable if some people can’t get involved in society because of the risk to their health.

I don’t know what the answer is to be honest, but it’s certainly not the individualistic, divisive two-tier system being advocated by others in this thread (all of whom are low risk I hasten to add).
We already have a two tier system, people who choose to fill their lungs with nicotine aren't allowed to do so at a football match. Shouldn't it be their right to do so in the open air?
Pretty bad example as smoking is proven to be bad for an individual’s health, and secondary or passive smoking is proven to be damaging to other people’s health as well, even in the open air.

So no, an individual’s right to freedom of choice in that instance doesn’t trump a majority of other people’s health.

The whole reason for the smoking ban was to protect people’s health, as are these restrictions, whether you agree with them or not.
loan_star wrote: You cant stop the majority of society from living their lives as normal as possible just because a small minority are more susceptible to viruses.
There were 32 million people placed in Phase 1, a priority grouping for vaccinations because they were judged more susceptible to the virus.

Seems a pretty big minority if you ask me.

Like I say, there are no easy answers. But to say “I’m all right Jack, open it all up and sod everyone else” seems a pretty callous and selfish viewpoint.

All I’m arguing for is we re-open in a way that makes everyone feel as safe as possible. There’s always going to be risk, but can we at least listen to those who are more vulnerable and put some measures in place to make them feel more comfortable coming to, for example a football match.

I don’t think that’s particularly unreasonable.
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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:15 pm

The bottom line is as Chris Whitty says, it's not about getting rid of the virus which no matter what we do isn't going to happen, it's about getting deaths down to a "tolerable" level and what that "tolerable" level is, is something than cannot be decided by scientists but by government and society.

You can have rolling lockdowns and absurd restrictions like walking the long way round to go the toilets in a stadium forever and a day but the risk posed by the virus will never be truly diminished, it's futile, as I said above we cannot continue like this indefinitely we must draw a line in the sand at some point.

I do understand the concerns of those above who are considered vulnerable and their point of people not following the guidance and I'm not defending their actions (I haven't been 100% perfect myself) but sooner or later people were always going to grow weary of them and as we're seeing more and more now public compliance is eroding.

I now believe the threat of lockdown to people's well-being is now greater than that of the virus, there needs to be an acceptance at some point this will have to end and we will need to learn to live with the virus, unfortunately some people will develop a serious infection, become hospitalized and tragically will die, the vaccines reduce the risk but no vaccine is 100% fool proof it's the same with the flu it's an inescapable fact.
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