Attendance

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:42 am

banktopp wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:25 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:08 am
I use one other forum regularly, I won't give a name but they are OTT sensitive and if you mention one little thing off topic or use a word decided by them as iffy - you get censured. The forum I'm on about is very good but it is run by people who would enter into melt down if they discovered a fork in the knife drawer.

We can do politics - you don't have to agree.
We certainly can. It's called " The Off Topic Room ".
See your point ;)
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

lo36789
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Re: Attendance

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:16 pm

Turning this back towards the topic of attendances. I would hope that there is respect shown by those on the terraces to others when in attendance at games. There should be plenty of room to space out, people have bemoaned the restrictions on non-league football for this very reason. Reality is outdoors, with space to move should be low risk.

Ultimately people should be able to watch the game from the position that they choose without feeling at threat / vulnerable. That is easier said than done, somebody who wants to maintain a social distance goes and stands slap bang in the middle of the tin shed and demands everyone else moves away from them is probably unreasonable but I am not sure how you get the balance right.

Queueing is the real pinch point for me, even pre-pandemic people nudging forward invading personal space was an irritation (it won't get you anywhere any quicker) but when it actively increases risk. To me there are sensible, and actually efficient mechanism to avoid this. Click & collect services are the obvious way to avoid this and I wonder how bars / food outlets might adopt. Order by your device, pay on card (or cash on collection). Rather than bar staff spending time trying to decipher orders, whilst taking payments they can just concentrate on service and then customer notified that their order is ready to collect - the white labelled versions of these products will be cost effective for even small businesses in the near future I am pretty sure.

Has anyone been in a McDonalds recently. They don't even have manned tills anymore. You order via app / self service machine and just go up to collect. Even then 80% of the orders in there are destined for the couriers on their electric bikes. That is not changing back.

Personally I will keep wearing a face covering in enclosed public spaces (ie supermarkets / shops) it protects others not me. I have no idea if the person who crosses my path has an underlying health condition meaning they can't be vaccinated, I could be infectious but asymptomatic. There is a say 1 in 60million chance the person I cross would die as a result, the 'cost' of wearing a face covering is smaller than that - as (to me) it is actually nothing.

That is really why I don't quite understand the need to remove this as a 'restriction' as having it as a requirement at least allowed those who felt vulnerable to ask that someone put them on, now it's just a case that people can't actually avoid the risk anymore. People who don't care won't wear one, but since it is not the wearer they protect it is those they come into then those who would prefer people around them wear one don't get a choice.

Drink driving laws are there as they protect the wider public, if the risk of drink driving was simply that you might kill yourself then 'personal responsibility' would be enough. Others become at risk due to the drunk persons actions, the risk of any individual being run down by a drunk driver is actually quite small as but the law is still thought to be justified.
Last edited by lo36789 on Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shildonlad
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:18 pm

loan_star wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:32 am
Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 am
He admitted yesterday he was condemning more people to unnecessarily early deaths.
Looking at it from the other standpoint, continuing with restrictions will also lead to other unnecessary deaths for a multitude of reasons.
Flu is almost as dangerous as covid to some, yet we have jabs for it and it was only a few years ago we had around 50k excess deaths because of it.
However we don't lock down every time there is a outbreak of it, we have to live with it, just like we will have to with covid.
How many variants of covid have we had and will continue to have? How long do you go till you say no more? The scientists seem to think that the delta version will have peaked before the 19th anyway and that the NHS will be able to cope. Good enough reason in my opinion to loosen the shackles and let people start to get back to normal.
They will, how many have taken there own lifes due to the strain of these restrictions or are in poverty due to there livelyhoods going down the pan
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al_quaker
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Re: Attendance

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:26 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:18 pm
loan_star wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:32 am
Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 am
He admitted yesterday he was condemning more people to unnecessarily early deaths.
Looking at it from the other standpoint, continuing with restrictions will also lead to other unnecessary deaths for a multitude of reasons.
Flu is almost as dangerous as covid to some, yet we have jabs for it and it was only a few years ago we had around 50k excess deaths because of it.
However we don't lock down every time there is a outbreak of it, we have to live with it, just like we will have to with covid.
How many variants of covid have we had and will continue to have? How long do you go till you say no more? The scientists seem to think that the delta version will have peaked before the 19th anyway and that the NHS will be able to cope. Good enough reason in my opinion to loosen the shackles and let people start to get back to normal.
They will, how many have taken there own lifes due to the strain of these restrictions or are in poverty due to there livelyhoods going down the pan
I don't want to get involved in debates about covid and responses, but both the BMJ and Lancet have reported no evidence of rises in suicide rates post-Covid

lo36789
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Re: Attendance

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:31 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:18 pm
loan_star wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:32 am
Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 am
He admitted yesterday he was condemning more people to unnecessarily early deaths.
Looking at it from the other standpoint, continuing with restrictions will also lead to other unnecessary deaths for a multitude of reasons.
Flu is almost as dangerous as covid to some, yet we have jabs for it and it was only a few years ago we had around 50k excess deaths because of it.
However we don't lock down every time there is a outbreak of it, we have to live with it, just like we will have to with covid.
How many variants of covid have we had and will continue to have? How long do you go till you say no more? The scientists seem to think that the delta version will have peaked before the 19th anyway and that the NHS will be able to cope. Good enough reason in my opinion to loosen the shackles and let people start to get back to normal.
They will, how many have taken there own lifes due to the strain of these restrictions or are in poverty due to there livelyhoods going down the pan
Well the earliest sign of the data suggests a slowing of the 'trend' in suicides that has actually been rising since 2010. Death causation tends to be quite lagging data mind so you won't get validated 2020 data until Q3 2021 but the quarterly data suggest there hasn't been a notable rise in suicides on 2019 which given the trend for the past decade has been increases a 'flattening' is an improvement.

There is a similar stat on domestic violence as well actually, but that is harder to 'trust' as you rely on reported instances of domestic violence. These have again sort of flattened out on previous increases that have been seen. The issue with that is the nature of lockdown has perhaps presented less oppportunity to report so it isn't that it isn't happening it just isn't able to be reported.
Last edited by lo36789 on Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Darlogramps
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Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:31 pm

loan_star wrote: Looking at it from the other standpoint, continuing with restrictions will also lead to other unnecessary deaths for a multitude of reasons.
Given we’re not really under lockdown, can you explain this please?

If it’s to do with people not going to hospitals for serious ailments, and therefore having cancers or other conditions going undetected, well that problem will resurface. If we get 100K plus cases (as Javid is talking about today) that inevitably means more people in hospital. So that problem exists again and the NHS comes under strain.

And there’s no evidence restrictions have led to an increase in suicides, as others have stated.

loan_star wrote: Flu is almost as dangerous as covid to some, yet we have jabs for it and it was only a few years ago we had around 50k excess deaths because of it.
However we don't lock down every time there is a outbreak of it, we have to live with it, just like we will have to with covid.
Yes, COVID is something we will have to live with, I agree. I’m not arguing for zero COVID or restrictions in perpetuity.

However flu has been around for centuries. We know how to deal with it and have effective treatments. COVID has been around for less than two years. There’s still loads we don’t know about it. How it mutates, the most effective treatments, where exactly it comes from etc.

And secondly, right here and now, flu is not exponentially increasing. COVID is, and will continue to do so.

Also, and this isn’t aimed at you, but I get tired of people lazily saying: “We need to treat COVID like flu.” They’re two very different illnesses and you need to treat them as such. It was part of the reason this country’s handling of COVID was so bad last February and March. The pandemic plan was based on a flu-like disease. COVID is very different.

The question becomes how does society adapt to live with COVID so it can function effectively. I don’t believe the plan announced yesterday is effective.
loan_star wrote: How many variants of covid have we had and will continue to have? How long do you go till you say no more?
I answered this question earlier in the thread. Restrictions to a point when the Delta variant is no longer exponentially rising and more people have been double-jabbed. Currently there’s 20 million people without a single jab at all.

I’m not arguing for restrictions in perpetuity. I want them relaxed as much as you. But I question the wisdom of doing it right now, when cases are rising exponentially.

The more COVID is circulating, the higher the chance of a vaccine-busting mutation and we’re back to square one.
loan_star wrote: The scientists seem to think that the delta version will have peaked before the 19th anyway and that the NHS will be able to cope. Good enough reason in my opinion to loosen the shackles and let people start to get back to normal.
With respect, that’s nonsense and fake news. No scientist thinks the Delta variant will have peaked by the 19th. Sajid Javid today is talking about 100K plus infections by mid-Summer.

To me, the Prime Minister and this Government have had a few bad news stories (two bad by-elections, Hancock’s affair, Cummings laying into Boris) and they’re trying to earn some positive headlines. And yes, I do think Boris “Let the bodies pile high” Johnson, is that cynical.

That’s an almighty gamble and one I fear will backfire.
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EDJOHNS
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Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:21 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 am
quaker4life wrote:
Darlopartisan wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:44 pm
I am really looking forward to this game on Tuesday night, off the top of my head I can’t remember the last time I watched Darlo .
Anyway, it’s a few new players to see how they get on , and hopefully bring as bit of excitement and anticipation for the new season.
I haven't seen Darlo play since "that" game with Farsley 15 months ago! It'll be quite a surreal experience to see them play again after everything that's happened and I don't know if there's any survivors from the starting XI that lined up that day.

From what's come out today it looks like the government are pressing ahead with plans to scrap restrictions, although some on the opposition side are spitting feathers I agree with Boris when he says if we don't go back to normal now, when will we? Let's hope the days of streaming games from behind closed doors and relying on haphazardly negotiated funding from the DCMS are gone forever.
The question you pose is a simple one to answer - at a time when the Delta variant isn’t growing exponentially. Indeed it was the Prime Minister himself who would bang on about “data not dates”. Until yesterday, when the rampant narcissist abandoned it after a few bad news stories.

The figures released yesterday showed 2% of people who contract COVID end up in hospital. Increase the number of cases and the number in hospital will increase. The Prime Minister himself said we could be at 50K cases a day by July 19th.

That’s 1,000 hospital admissions a day - surely unsustainable if cases keep rising (as they will when there are next to zero limits). And once the NHS feels the strain, he would have to reintroduce restrictions.

He admitted yesterday he was condemning more people to unnecessarily early deaths. Such is the cult of personality that surrounds this appalling Prime Minister that none of his unquestioning, cultist supporters have even picked up on that.

Seemingly more people dying prematurely is a price worth paying for being able to go to a pub without having to order table service.

By all accounts, throwing the shackles off is a huge gamble. I can see this backfiring massively.

And to make it relevant to the club, if he had to reintroduce restrictions, that’s likely to mean no supporters at games, and we’re back where we’re started.

High COVID in circulation? Likely to mean players could catch it, ruling them out of matches and potentially forcing others to isolate (depending on the number of jabs they’ve had).

All this risk because our dreadful Prime Minister wanted some positive headlines.
Gramps, you are making a lot of sense, but really? What can the man do to win? Many people have said that there will be trouble if he does not call it off and let loose. Many are already refusing to comply with restrictions saying they are sick of it all.
You only have to read this thread to get that many are on the point of mutiny.
Can you imagin the clamour if he had said restrictions would remain in place?
I am not a massive fan of BJ, but this entire Covid situation has been a nightmare from start to finish. I certainly would not have liked to come up with the way through it, and all for the same wage a year as some footballers earn in 2 days.
Can you name anyone who could have done a better job? Indeed can you name anyone you would trust to have seen us through it?
You know as well as I do we are going to lockdown again. At least he will be able to say "We did warn you what would happen"

lo36789
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Re: Attendance

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:52 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:21 pm
I certainly would not have liked to come up with the way through it, and all for the same wage a year as some footballers earn in 2 days.
I'm not sure Boris has come up with any of the answers to be honest. That isn't his job mind. He decides which route to take based on ideas and evidence provided by others.

As for his salary. He knew the salary when he set his ambitions on the role many years ago. He also knows that a term as PM will set him up for life financially.

There is a bit gap between no restrictions and some restrictions mind. The "go back to normal" wasn't the only option.

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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:57 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 am

The question you pose is a simple one to answer - at a time when the Delta variant isn’t growing exponentially. Indeed it was the Prime Minister himself who would bang on about “data not dates”. Until yesterday, when the rampant narcissist abandoned it after a few bad news stories.

The figures released yesterday showed 2% of people who contract COVID end up in hospital. Increase the number of cases and the number in hospital will increase. The Prime Minister himself said we could be at 50K cases a day by July 19th.

That’s 1,000 hospital admissions a day - surely unsustainable if cases keep rising (as they will when there are next to zero limits). And once the NHS feels the strain, he would have to reintroduce restrictions.

He admitted yesterday he was condemning more people to unnecessarily early deaths. Such is the cult of personality that surrounds this appalling Prime Minister that none of his unquestioning, cultist supporters have even picked up on that.

Seemingly more people dying prematurely is a price worth paying for being able to go to a pub without having to order table service.

By all accounts, throwing the shackles off is a huge gamble. I can see this backfiring massively.

And to make it relevant to the club, if he had to reintroduce restrictions, that’s likely to mean no supporters at games, and we’re back where we’re started.

High COVID in circulation? Likely to mean players could catch it, ruling them out of matches and potentially forcing others to isolate (depending on the number of jabs they’ve had).

All this risk because our dreadful Prime Minister wanted some positive headlines.


I appreciate your sentiments DarloGramps however, it comes back to that old adage of the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and expecting different results. We could kick the can down the road further into the autumn/winter which again as the PM said would give the virus a distinct advantage or do it now during the warmer months when the virus as its weakest so we can get a head start with the vaccine roll out and the boosters in the autumn.

We could kick the can all the way down the road into next year but ultimately the same thing will happen, restrictions lift and in turn cases will rise, I read something a few days back about some scientists/advisors saying it was time to stop publishing the daily Covid infection rates, a view I tend to agree with, as it will lead to people becoming too fixated on case numbers rather than the critical number of hospitalizations and tragically those who have died.

The number of hospitalizations and deaths has plummeted thanks to the vaccines weakening the link between the virus and serious infection and death however as with all vaccines it is not 100% foolproof, sadly people will still contract the virus and die from it and that is something we will unfortunately have to learn to accept. I do not agree with your statement that he has admitted he is condemning people to unnecessarily early deaths what he is saying is that we most reconcile ourselves with the fact that people will die from it, as I mentioned before this is something that Chris Whitty has maintained throughout this was never about getting rid of Covid 19 which as we know is never going to happen, it's about getting the mortality rate down to a level that is considered "tolerable".

I also disagree that he is doing this for positive PR and it's not just about being to go the bar to order a pint, it's the economic and sociological impact these restrictions have had on society people's livelihoods being lost, children losing out on education, the backlog of millions of patients whose treatment was delayed because of the pandemic we have yet to see the true fall out of it all but it's safe to see the shockwaves will be felt for years to come.

Lifting restrictions will never be without risk, the risk of the virus will never be eliminated and as I've said previously I now believe the danger posed to people's health and well-being by lockdown is now greater than than that of the virus. I sense from your post that your angst is more directed towards the PM than the lifting of restrictions, whether you like him or not this could not last forever.

I feel whilst there are those people out there with genuine and understandable concerns there are those who to me who are "lockdown lovers" they've found a niche and a comfort zone in lockdown and amidst the restrictions that they don't want to lose.
Last edited by quaker4life on Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Lawman3
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Re: Attendance

Post by Lawman3 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:00 pm

I feel that we are at a point where Boris Johnson could break into your house, drop his pants and piss on your table whilst you're having a family meal, and there'll be no shortage of people willing to argue "Yeah, but he had to piss somewhere".

I don't wish to divert the thread in a political direction, but there is a steady stream of evidence of Johnson's incompetence and inability to prioritise correctly (missing Cobra meetings, going on holiday, giving mixed messages about going to the pub/shaking hands etc./locking down too late/spaffing billions in contracts to his incompetent mates - plus plenty more examples). I don't know if any of the shower in the Commons could have done a better job (it's hypothetical anyway), but I'm damn sure they couldn't have done any worse.
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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:09 pm

Lawman3 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:00 pm
I feel that we are at a point where Boris Johnson could break into your house, drop his pants and piss on your table whilst you're having a family meal, and there'll be no shortage of people willing to argue "Yeah, but he had to piss somewhere".

I don't wish to divert the thread in a political direction, but there is a steady stream of evidence of Johnson's incompetence and inability to prioritise correctly (missing Cobra meetings, going on holiday, giving mixed messages about going to the pub/shaking hands etc./locking down too late/spaffing billions in contracts to his incompetent mates - plus plenty more examples). I don't know if any of the shower in the Commons could have done a better job (it's hypothetical anyway), but I'm damn sure they couldn't have done any worse.
It'll all come out in the wash, however I still maintain the belief China knew about the virus before they made it global knowledge so as for whether or not we locked down too late it'll be something we'll never truly know, in the end all of us might have been too late it would be naive to assume the virus started spreading at the moment the case count started.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

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Re: Attendance

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:15 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:57 pm

The number of hospitalizations and deaths has plummeted thanks to the vaccines weakening the link between the virus and serious infection and death
On this point, it has to be said hospitalisations are rising relatively quickly now (albeit from a low base) - 390 today, and with exponential growth (one estimate of the doubling time is 11 days) it won't take long to get up towards bigger numbers, particularly with the growth in cases we are seeing - and are expected to continue seeing for a while - too.

Not a comment on the merits or otherwise of yesterdays announcments.

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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:20 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:15 pm
quaker4life wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:57 pm

The number of hospitalizations and deaths has plummeted thanks to the vaccines weakening the link between the virus and serious infection and death
On this point, it has to be said hospitalisations are rising relatively quickly now (albeit from a low base) - 390 today, and with exponential growth (one estimate of the doubling time is 11 days) it won't take long to get up towards bigger numbers, particularly with the growth in cases we are seeing - and are expected to continue seeing for a while - too.

Not a comment on the merits or otherwise of yesterdays announcments.
Yes they are, but I think the crucial thing is they're not nearly as high as they were during the last peak in January/February, the risk of the NHS becoming overwhelmed at this point is minimal.

Also as we've seen these trends tend to change especially as the vaccine roll out progresses, there has been peaks and troughs throughout and while you're seeing an increase now by this time next month you could see a reduction again.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

al_quaker
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Re: Attendance

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:55 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:20 pm
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:15 pm
quaker4life wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:57 pm

The number of hospitalizations and deaths has plummeted thanks to the vaccines weakening the link between the virus and serious infection and death
On this point, it has to be said hospitalisations are rising relatively quickly now (albeit from a low base) - 390 today, and with exponential growth (one estimate of the doubling time is 11 days) it won't take long to get up towards bigger numbers, particularly with the growth in cases we are seeing - and are expected to continue seeing for a while - too.

Not a comment on the merits or otherwise of yesterdays announcments.
Yes they are, but I think the crucial thing is they're not nearly as high as they were during the last peak in January/February, the risk of the NHS becoming overwhelmed at this point is minimal.

Also as we've seen these trends tend to change especially as the vaccine roll out progresses, there has been peaks and troughs throughout and while you're seeing an increase now by this time next month you could see a reduction again.
Yes they may come down (and we all hope they do), but they may also continue to rise, and with exponential growth things can rise quite quickly. My comment was more an observation that, rather than 'hospitalisations and deaths have plummeted', it's probably 'they had plummeted, but are now rising again, albeit more slowly than in previous waves'

Of course, the scientific and medical advisors will know far more on that front than you or I, and ultimately ministers and the prime minister will be judged on whether they've made the right call as to whether the NHS can cope, and whether the rise in covid deaths will be deemed acceptable to society.

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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:18 pm

Would like to know how many seriously ill in hospital have had both vacines. Also the fear mongering media is quick to report a rise in hospitalisations, but how many of them are actually in for a while? A hospitalisation could be someone with just a overnight stay in a covid ward
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:24 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:57 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 am

The question you pose is a simple one to answer - at a time when the Delta variant isn’t growing exponentially. Indeed it was the Prime Minister himself who would bang on about “data not dates”. Until yesterday, when the rampant narcissist abandoned it after a few bad news stories.

The figures released yesterday showed 2% of people who contract COVID end up in hospital. Increase the number of cases and the number in hospital will increase. The Prime Minister himself said we could be at 50K cases a day by July 19th.

That’s 1,000 hospital admissions a day - surely unsustainable if cases keep rising (as they will when there are next to zero limits). And once the NHS feels the strain, he would have to reintroduce restrictions.

He admitted yesterday he was condemning more people to unnecessarily early deaths. Such is the cult of personality that surrounds this appalling Prime Minister that none of his unquestioning, cultist supporters have even picked up on that.

Seemingly more people dying prematurely is a price worth paying for being able to go to a pub without having to order table service.

By all accounts, throwing the shackles off is a huge gamble. I can see this backfiring massively.

And to make it relevant to the club, if he had to reintroduce restrictions, that’s likely to mean no supporters at games, and we’re back where we’re started.

High COVID in circulation? Likely to mean players could catch it, ruling them out of matches and potentially forcing others to isolate (depending on the number of jabs they’ve had).

All this risk because our dreadful Prime Minister wanted some positive headlines.


I appreciate your sentiments DarloGramps however, it comes back to that old adage of the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and expecting different results. We could kick the can down the road further into the autumn/winter which again as the PM said would give the virus a distinct advantage or do it now during the warmer months when the virus as its weakest so we can get a head start with the vaccine roll out and the boosters in the autumn.

We could kick the can all the way down the road into next year but ultimately the same thing will happen, restrictions lift and in turn cases will rise, I read something a few days back about some scientists/advisors saying it was time to stop publishing the daily Covid infection rates, a view I tend to agree with, as it will lead to people becoming too fixated on case numbers rather than the critical number of hospitalizations and tragically those who have died.

The number of hospitalizations and deaths has plummeted thanks to the vaccines weakening the link between the virus and serious infection and death however as with all vaccines it is not 100% foolproof, sadly people will still contract the virus and die from it and that is something we will unfortunately have to learn to accept. I do not agree with your statement that he has admitted he is condemning people to unnecessarily early deaths what he is saying is that we most reconcile ourselves with the fact that people will die from it, as I mentioned before this is something that Chris Whitty has maintained throughout this was never about getting rid of Covid 19 which as we know is never going to happen, it's about getting the mortality rate down to a level that is considered "tolerable".

I also disagree that he is doing this for positive PR and it's not just about being to go the bar to order a pint, it's the economic and sociological impact these restrictions have had on society people's livelihoods being lost, children losing out on education, the backlog of millions of patients whose treatment was delayed because of the pandemic we have yet to see the true fall out of it all but it's safe to see the shockwaves will be felt for years to come.

Lifting restrictions will never be without risk, the risk of the virus will never be eliminated and as I've said previously I now believe the danger posed to people's health and well-being by lockdown is now greater than than that of the virus. I sense from your post that your angst is more directed towards the PM than the lifting of restrictions, whether you like him or not this could not last forever.

I feel whilst there are those people out there with genuine and understandable concerns there are those who to me who are "lockdown lovers" they've found a niche and a comfort zone in lockdown and amidst the restrictions that they don't want to lose.
I appreciate lockdown had to keep going whilst vacine roll out got ramped up but that is in full swing now and if restrictions are lifted next Week, next month, next year or whenever you are still going to get folk shitting themselves. Of course if restrictions are kept folk will moan then. As i keep saying the pm cant win. Folk are talking like this will turn into the plague and we will drop dead after going to a packed event. I will be more inclined to avoid a place if it was filthy particulary that did food to avoid catching food poisoning or a place that had a bad rep for drugs and fighting
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

lo36789
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Re: Attendance

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:31 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:24 pm
I will be more inclined to avoid a place if it was filthy particulary that did food to avoid catching food poisoning or a place that had a bad rep for drugs and fighting
That's great for you as a consumer you get to choose. I won't eat there coz eating there might get me ill.

What if roles were reversed. You don't get to choose where you eat. Restaurants choose who they feed you have to eat what they give you, but you don't get to know what their reputation is.

Now you are in the position of a vulnerable person working in services industry where the customers who could be infected don't wear a mask. You can't even ask them and say it's recommended because Tory MPs are now coming out in their droves saying the moment they don't have to they won't wear one.

al_quaker
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Re: Attendance

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:57 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:24 pm

I appreciate lockdown had to keep going whilst vacine roll out got ramped up but that is in full swing now and if restrictions are lifted next Week, next month, next year or whenever you are still going to get folk shitting themselves.
That rather dismissive comment, to be honest, says a lot about your character. Whether I believe it's the right or wrong moment to lift restrictions, I think it's perfectly understandable that some people will be very nervous about it, particularly when it is being described by ministers as "a leap into the unknown", and particularly when considering that leap involves peoples lives.

EDJOHNS
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Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:01 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:52 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:21 pm
I certainly would not have liked to come up with the way through it, and all for the same wage a year as some footballers earn in 2 days.
I'm not sure Boris has come up with any of the answers to be honest. That isn't his job mind. He decides which route to take based on ideas and evidence provided by others.

As for his salary. He knew the salary when he set his ambitions on the role many years ago. He also knows that a term as PM will set him up for life financially.

There is a bit gap between no restrictions and some restrictions mind. The "go back to normal" wasn't the only option.
Your first comment cements what I said. Everyone blames BJ because he has the final say but not really his fault as all the gov do is act on the given info.

The salery was more a comment on the state of society and what is percieved as more value for money.
The so called "Freedom day" ia all about all restrictions being lifted. Labour have been playing hell about the lockdown situation and all the rules, yet now are moaning about them being taken away.
Again, how to the gov' win?

lo36789
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Re: Attendance

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:17 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:01 pm
Labour have been playing hell about the lockdown situation and all the rules, yet now are moaning about them being taken away.
Again, how to the gov' win?
Well her majesty's opposition their job is to oppose.

If the opposition were just saying "it was difficult so whatever you did is fine as long as you tried your best" wouldn't be much of an opposition.

Anyway.

Hopefully the club are accomodating to those who are anxious, and make options available to them so they aren't put off coming, irrespective of what government say we "can" do.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:22 pm

Shildon Lad won’t realise that any action the club take to consider all, and to make things safer for all - will benefit him.

I’ll explain this if I need to.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

quaker4life
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Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:24 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:55 pm

Of course, the scientific and medical advisors will know far more on that front than you or I, and ultimately ministers and the prime minister will be judged on whether they've made the right call as to whether the NHS can cope, and whether the rise in covid deaths will be deemed acceptable to society.
That goes without saying, I don't claim to be a part time epidemiologist with a Wikapedia degree in virology it appears many on social media seem to know better than Chris Whitty, Patrick Vallance, and Jonathan Van Tam.

I always quite liked JVT as he explained things in simple terms for none scientific minded simpletons like myself, however Boris will always be the fall guy and although mistakes were undoubtedly made along the way I've said before I'm glad I didn't have to make any of the truly horrendous decisions he has throughout this pandemic same with other leaders throughout Europe and the rest of the world.

I'm sure out of all of his fiercest critics, Piers Morgan aside (who would have been an excellent exponent of the Dunning-Kruger effect), none of them would have walked in his shoes during the worse crisis this country has endured since the Second World War.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

shildonlad
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:30 am

al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:57 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:24 pm

I appreciate lockdown had to keep going whilst vacine roll out got ramped up but that is in full swing now and if restrictions are lifted next Week, next month, next year or whenever you are still going to get folk shitting themselves.
That rather dismissive comment, to be honest, says a lot about your character. Whether I believe it's the right or wrong moment to lift restrictions, I think it's perfectly understandable that some people will be very nervous about it, particularly when it is being described by ministers as "a leap into the unknown", and particularly when considering that leap involves peoples lives.
Theres always leaps into the unknown, new job, new medical treatments, going to a new exotic place abroad, just have to get on with life and take a risk and stop living in fear
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

Darlogramps
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Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:49 am

Bless. You seem to think dealing with a global pandemic which has killed millions is like getting a new job. Thick as pigshit.

You really don’t give a damn about anyone other than yourself. Certainly not the most vulnerable in our society. The ones who’ll avoid socialising, or now can’t get public transport to work in case they get a potentially lethal virus.

They have to live in fear while you live in ignorance.

Come back when you have a sensible contribution to make.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:03 am

lo36789 wrote:
EDJOHNS wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:01 pm
Labour have been playing hell about the lockdown situation and all the rules, yet now are moaning about them being taken away.
Again, how to the gov' win?
Well her majesty's opposition their job is to oppose.

If the opposition were just saying "it was difficult so whatever you did is fine as long as you tried your best" wouldn't be much of an opposition.

Anyway.

Hopefully the club are accomodating to those who are anxious, and make options available to them so they aren't put off coming, irrespective of what government say we "can" do.
Should also add EDJOHNS is wrong in that Labour haven’t played hell about the lockdown situation. They’ve consistently voted it through and supported the principle of lockdown and restrictions. They might disagree with how some of it has been done, but they have consistently backed restrictions.

Moreover, lockdown and restrictions are one of the most popular policies ever introduced. Check out the ComRes polling immediately after his latest announcement. Anyone deluding themselves there’s majority opposition to restrictions is just plain wrong. Beyond the gobshite right wing agitators who inhabit TalkRadio and GB News, there’s very little opposition to the principle of restrictions, and all the polling supports this.

As for people saying: “Poor Boris, who could’ve done better?” I’d say the vast majority of Parliament would have done a considerably better job, as would just about all of his predecessors. Johnson is not good enough to be Prime Minister. And for any of the brainwashed on here who support him, go and read all the testimony of Government decisions in the first three months of 2020. It’s terrifying how out of his depth and ill-suited to the job he is.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: Attendance

Post by al_quaker » Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:32 am

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:30 am
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:57 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:24 pm

I appreciate lockdown had to keep going whilst vacine roll out got ramped up but that is in full swing now and if restrictions are lifted next Week, next month, next year or whenever you are still going to get folk shitting themselves.
That rather dismissive comment, to be honest, says a lot about your character. Whether I believe it's the right or wrong moment to lift restrictions, I think it's perfectly understandable that some people will be very nervous about it, particularly when it is being described by ministers as "a leap into the unknown", and particularly when considering that leap involves peoples lives.
Theres always leaps into the unknown, new job, new medical treatments, going to a new exotic place abroad, just have to get on with life and take a risk and stop living in fear
I take it from those ludicrous examples that you can't understand why some people are nervous about the lifting of restrictions. Suggests you're a rather callous individual.

shildonlad
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:04 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:49 am
Bless. You seem to think dealing with a global pandemic which has killed millions is like getting a new job. Thick as pigshit.

You really don’t give a damn about anyone other than yourself. Certainly not the most vulnerable in our society. The ones who’ll avoid socialising, or now can’t get public transport to work in case they get a potentially lethal virus.

They have to live in fear while you live in ignorance.

Come back when you have a sensible contribution to make.
Dont be bliddy stupid, my mams nearly a pensioner but will still take public transport and socialise. As i say if folk feel unsafe just wear a bliddy mask, more hazards to worry about on the roads and railways themselves
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

shildonlad
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:06 am

al_quaker wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:32 am
shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:30 am
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:57 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:24 pm

I appreciate lockdown had to keep going whilst vacine roll out got ramped up but that is in full swing now and if restrictions are lifted next Week, next month, next year or whenever you are still going to get folk shitting themselves.
That rather dismissive comment, to be honest, says a lot about your character. Whether I believe it's the right or wrong moment to lift restrictions, I think it's perfectly understandable that some people will be very nervous about it, particularly when it is being described by ministers as "a leap into the unknown", and particularly when considering that leap involves peoples lives.
Theres always leaps into the unknown, new job, new medical treatments, going to a new exotic place abroad, just have to get on with life and take a risk and stop living in fear
I take it from those ludicrous examples that you can't understand why some people are nervous about the lifting of restrictions. Suggests you're a rather callous individual.
Tes some will be nervous but why should the rest of us especially us young uns who have suffered so much have to keep on suffering not to mention the damage the lockdowns have done to the economy
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

al_quaker
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Re: Attendance

Post by al_quaker » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:09 am

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:06 am
al_quaker wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:32 am
shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:30 am
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:57 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:24 pm

I appreciate lockdown had to keep going whilst vacine roll out got ramped up but that is in full swing now and if restrictions are lifted next Week, next month, next year or whenever you are still going to get folk shitting themselves.
That rather dismissive comment, to be honest, says a lot about your character. Whether I believe it's the right or wrong moment to lift restrictions, I think it's perfectly understandable that some people will be very nervous about it, particularly when it is being described by ministers as "a leap into the unknown", and particularly when considering that leap involves peoples lives.
Theres always leaps into the unknown, new job, new medical treatments, going to a new exotic place abroad, just have to get on with life and take a risk and stop living in fear
I take it from those ludicrous examples that you can't understand why some people are nervous about the lifting of restrictions. Suggests you're a rather callous individual.
Tes some will be nervous but why should the rest of us especially us young uns who have suffered so much have to keep on suffering not to mention the damage the lockdowns have done to the economy
Like I said, a callous individual.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:50 am

Shildon Lad = callous and stupid. I've explained to him that masks primarily benefit others but he doesn't seem to understand the concept of "others" - and thinks voluntarily putting on a mask is the catch all solution to everything.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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