Attendance

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shildonlad
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 pm
Team Supported: Newcastle united and gatesheas
Location: Chesterfield

Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:44 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:39 am
shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:52 pm
shildonlad wrote:
quaker4life wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:15 pm
The bottom line is as Chris Whitty says, it's not about getting rid of the virus which no matter what we do isn't going to happen, it's about getting deaths down to a "tolerable" level and what that "tolerable" level is, is something than cannot be decided by scientists but by government and society.

You can have rolling lockdowns and absurd restrictions like walking the long way round to go the toilets in a stadium forever and a day but the risk posed by the virus will never be truly diminished, it's futile, as I said above we cannot continue like this indefinitely we must draw a line in the sand at some point.

I do understand the concerns of those above who are considered vulnerable and their point of people not following the guidance and I'm not defending their actions (I haven't been 100% perfect myself) but sooner or later people were always going to grow weary of them and as we're seeing more and more now public compliance is eroding.

I now believe the threat of lockdown to people's well-being is now greater than that of the virus, there needs to be an acceptance at some point this will have to end and we will need to learn to live with the virus, unfortunately some people will develop a serious infection, become hospitalized and tragically will die, the vaccines reduce the risk but no vaccine is 100% fool proof it's the same with the flu it's an inescapable fact.
Been the case for years that the elderley and vunrable can die from things like flu but we have always learned to live with it. Cant keep haveing the young ones been stopped from nightclubbing, which will still not probably stop the elderley dying in winter
A man who can’t even spell elderly seems to have decided older people’s lives are worth less than a good night out.
Are you part of the elderly group of people?
Makes no difference as that’s nothing to do with the point I’m making.

You’ve decided the elderly and vulnerable (both of which you can’t even spell) are less important than younger people.

Once we start categorising certain age groups as being less valuable in the post-restrictions world, that’s a pretty dark and dangerous pathway for society to be on.

Try showing a bit of human decency rather than thinking of yourself.
Even some old people are sick of restrictions, a bloke in his 80s sitting at the bar in his local pub or social club who has had both vacines really aint got much to loose. Are you old, at risk or just enjoy a debate?
Last edited by shildonlad on Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

shildonlad
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 pm
Team Supported: Newcastle united and gatesheas
Location: Chesterfield

Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:50 am

H1987 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 am
I'm sorry about your dad, but why are you a special case when hundreds of thousands have lost loved ones in the past 18 months and been unable to grieve? Why are you entitled to? Furthermore, the rules on this have already changed. You are no longer restricted to six, and it's about how many a venue can accommodate.

Nightclubs and venues can still access furlough and need to be properly supported. Absolutely no one except the most ruthless wants them to go under. The arts industry is in dire need of support. That doesn't need to be done by throwing everything open at capacity and doesn't make economic sense either if we manage to spawn a new, more deadly variant.

I'll repeat the point again, millions are not yet fully vaccinated. We are still way below the threshold for immunity (some are estimating that is around 80 percent). You can't really stuff indoor venues in particular until we are at that point. Fortunately, the season is a couple of months away. Even then, I don't think we will be at full capacity for outdoor stadiums. Thankfully, we probably don't need to be. There's a difference between one-off games at Wembley and stadiums open at capacity all over the nation... and we are clearly less problematic than indoor events.
Never said my family were a special case, many more in the same boat as i said earlier. And when on earth did that rule of 6 change, cant have 60 people in a indoor venue, weddings for example are capped at 30 with loads of stupid restrictions. As for nightclubs and the arts, do you actually attend such places or know anyone that works in them? The furlough money is been wound down and they still need to pay rates, utilities etc. Venues have had grants to help them but it wont keep them going forever and even if they got more grants, its more for the tax payer to pick up. Letting them open with little or no restrictions is the best help for them, not talking about newcastle arena type places, more small venues who have struggled the most. There will always be variants but as far as im concerned those most at risk have been vacinated so they are running out of excuses to keep things shut
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

Darlogramps
Posts: 5582
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:35 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:39 am
shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:52 pm
shildonlad wrote: Been the case for years that the elderley and vunrable can die from things like flu but we have always learned to live with it. Cant keep haveing the young ones been stopped from nightclubbing, which will still not probably stop the elderley dying in winter
A man who can’t even spell elderly seems to have decided older people’s lives are worth less than a good night out.
Are you part of the elderly group of people?
Makes no difference as that’s nothing to do with the point I’m making.

You’ve decided the elderly and vulnerable (both of which you can’t even spell) are less important than younger people.

Once we start categorising certain age groups as being less valuable in the post-restrictions world, that’s a pretty dark and dangerous pathway for society to be on.

Try showing a bit of human decency rather than thinking of yourself.
Even some old people are sick of restrictions, a bloke in his 80s sitting at the bar in his local pub or social club who has had both vacines really aint got much to loose. Are you old, at risk or just enjoy a debate?
I’m sure you can work it out. Come to think of it, you’re as thick as pigshit, so probably won’t.

However there are plenty of vulnerable people who are concerned about unlocking. Indeed we’ve seen that in thread.

But you think their concerns should be cast aside because it’s not your point of view.

You keep proving my point. Some people just want a two-tier society once restrictions are lifted. People like you are too self-centred to realise everyone should be taken into account, not just those who agree with you.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

H1987
Posts: 1818
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Attendance

Post by H1987 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:58 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:50 am
H1987 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 am
I'm sorry about your dad, but why are you a special case when hundreds of thousands have lost loved ones in the past 18 months and been unable to grieve? Why are you entitled to? Furthermore, the rules on this have already changed. You are no longer restricted to six, and it's about how many a venue can accommodate.

Nightclubs and venues can still access furlough and need to be properly supported. Absolutely no one except the most ruthless wants them to go under. The arts industry is in dire need of support. That doesn't need to be done by throwing everything open at capacity and doesn't make economic sense either if we manage to spawn a new, more deadly variant.

I'll repeat the point again, millions are not yet fully vaccinated. We are still way below the threshold for immunity (some are estimating that is around 80 percent). You can't really stuff indoor venues in particular until we are at that point. Fortunately, the season is a couple of months away. Even then, I don't think we will be at full capacity for outdoor stadiums. Thankfully, we probably don't need to be. There's a difference between one-off games at Wembley and stadiums open at capacity all over the nation... and we are clearly less problematic than indoor events.
Never said my family were a special case, many more in the same boat as i said earlier. And when on earth did that rule of 6 change, cant have 60 people in a indoor venue, weddings for example are capped at 30 with loads of stupid restrictions. As for nightclubs and the arts, do you actually attend such places or know anyone that works in them? The furlough money is been wound down and they still need to pay rates, utilities etc. Venues have had grants to help them but it wont keep them going forever and even if they got more grants, its more for the tax payer to pick up. Letting them open with little or no restrictions is the best help for them, not talking about newcastle arena type places, more small venues who have struggled the most. There will always be variants but as far as im concerned those most at risk have been vacinated so they are running out of excuses to keep things shut
Are you deliberately ignoring the bits where I said financial support was necessary and it doesn’t make economic sense if we open everything to capacity right away and then end up with a new deadlier variant and have to close *again* (which absolutely no one wants).

As with most ‘lockdown sceptic’ types, this argument seems to be entirely in your own head. No one wants businesses to go bust, and it’s a bad faith argument suggesting that doing things gradually amounts to it.

Points out that millions of people are not yet vaccinated is not ‘running out of excuses’. It’s an entirely sensible, and probably the most important aspect of all of this.

EDJOHNS
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:20 pm

Norm_D_Ploom wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:52 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:39 am
Norm_D_Ploom wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:56 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:29 am
[quote=super_les_mcjannet

I wish I knew how to link photo's because 1 I have got of Wembley way v Germany is disgusting. It is packed and not 1 person either wearing a mask nor distancing.
If you are outside, you don't actually need them, the risk is minimal. You had to have them on at the covid and ticket check and everyone I saw did.

You were supposed to wear them in the stadium concourse but I would say that was 50 / 50 at best and I must admit it felt slightly uncomfortable at HT.

I am double jabbed and low risk but I suppose it's the natural reaction when you have become accustomed to something different.

When I was at the Croatia game they made you wear your mask in your seat, although I was in block 102 that day :D on Tuesday they didn't bother trying !!! :lol:
Please believe I want an end to this as much as anyone. Our concourses were not open apart from the toilets at KR so no comment on that, however, my question goes to the "little" risk when outside. With numbers still going up, would it really hurt anyone to mask up when going from their seat to the loo? If that "minimal risk" can be made even slightly more "minimal" by something as simple as that then surly it is worth it to get rid of all restrictions sooner rather than later.
The photo I have was taken from the hotel at the end of WW near the station and the total WW is crowded with people jostling and turning round and into each other. We are still not well enough informed to guarantee that spending say 5 minutes near someone that has covid will not cause you to catch it.
Likewise, the vaccine "seems" to be holding it back and so working, but we still only have short term information. I find it rather funny that people saying they will not have the jab because of a fear of long term side effects and will wait to see how others react are prepared to use the argument that the vaccine is now proven to work.

Having had my 2 jabs, as I say, I have returned to as normal a life as I can while still taking some elementary precautions to safeguard both myself and others. To me that simply makes sense.
You were supposed to wear masks when leaving your seat and using the toilet and / or buying food etc in the Wembley concourse.

On both Tuesday and v Croatia I did. At the Croatia game most people complied v Germany I would say that the majority didn't.

In the open air, on for example Wembley Way ( although I always use Wembley Stadium station because it is less busy) the risk is very low you need to be very close for a reasonable length of time but if people would feel more comfortable wearing a mask in that situation then fine.

Personally I wear them as little as possible as I am a glasses wearer and they steam up and it really annoys me constantly taking them off to demist them, for that reason alone I am looking forward to restrictions being lifted.
With you on the glasses bit.. I had double trouble all last winter as I have a solid front canopy on my mobility scooter so that misted up with the cold as did my glasses.
You have actually agreed with 1 of my complaints in that people did not mask up when leaving their seats at KR. As I say, I just don't get it when you are in a row of seats and have to pass someone. Even just from the mental worry aspect.

EDJOHNS
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:23 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:26 am
H1987 wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:25 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:12 pm
H1987 wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:36 pm
I think it's all well and good saying 'what good are vaccines if we can't return to normal' while you are sitting comfortably, double vaccinated. Vast swathes of Britain are not yet. The biggest problem this country has, and covid has further highlighted, is selfishness. Just because you've had your vaccine, you can't demand all of society return to normal at the drop of a hat because now it suits you. Vaccines are currently moving at around half the pace they were earlier in the year. Most under 40 aren't double vaccinated yet. Kids don't have any at all (and while it might not be making them sick, they can easily pass it on to others).

I'd be hopeful for later in the year, but imagine capacities will begin as reduced. I'm not sure the earlier poster is right about stupidity. It's pure selfishness. If you opened up Blackwell on limited capacity, idiots would congregate in certain sections and leave others wide open. I don't think it's stupidity, I think they know what they're doing is wrong. They just don't care. It's not a Darlington issue, it's a wider societal issue. A significant part of the population behaves like entitled babies who think rules shouldn't apply to them.

I can't wait until everything is back to normal, but watching the entitled demand perfect normality from July is starting to irritate me. Life isn't so bad right now, and if carrying on like this for a few extra months saves lives and makes sure everyone has that same level of protection from the virus, then so be it. The term 'freedom day' is absurd.
Another few months, aint we suffered enough already, what about all those families whos still not had wakes for loved ones, they want closure
What on earth are you on about? Unless your family lives overseas, you not seeing your family at this point is your fault.

You can go to houses, go inside, go to the pub, go to restaurants, and go in a stadium. No one is saying shut it down again, but comparing life now to life over this winter is just ridiculous, and I think you know it is.

If you can't handle wearing a mask and not going to a nightclub for a couple of months, you need to get a grip.
A couple of months! Nightclubs, theartes etc have been closed for over a year and cannot really re-open with social distanceing in place. And while these draconian measures in place we cant have a wake for my dad who passed away in april, in case you aint aware private functions still cant go ahead. Venues are loosing a fortune on such events not to mention weddings
Theatres? All the ones I go to are putting on virtual performances now. You pay and watch via You tube etc. Not totally great, but a good alternative that gives entertainment and makes them money.

EDJOHNS
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:26 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:39 am
shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:52 pm
shildonlad wrote:
quaker4life wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:15 pm
The bottom line is as Chris Whitty says, it's not about getting rid of the virus which no matter what we do isn't going to happen, it's about getting deaths down to a "tolerable" level and what that "tolerable" level is, is something than cannot be decided by scientists but by government and society.

You can have rolling lockdowns and absurd restrictions like walking the long way round to go the toilets in a stadium forever and a day but the risk posed by the virus will never be truly diminished, it's futile, as I said above we cannot continue like this indefinitely we must draw a line in the sand at some point.

I do understand the concerns of those above who are considered vulnerable and their point of people not following the guidance and I'm not defending their actions (I haven't been 100% perfect myself) but sooner or later people were always going to grow weary of them and as we're seeing more and more now public compliance is eroding.

I now believe the threat of lockdown to people's well-being is now greater than that of the virus, there needs to be an acceptance at some point this will have to end and we will need to learn to live with the virus, unfortunately some people will develop a serious infection, become hospitalized and tragically will die, the vaccines reduce the risk but no vaccine is 100% fool proof it's the same with the flu it's an inescapable fact.
Been the case for years that the elderley and vunrable can die from things like flu but we have always learned to live with it. Cant keep haveing the young ones been stopped from nightclubbing, which will still not probably stop the elderley dying in winter
A man who can’t even spell elderly seems to have decided older people’s lives are worth less than a good night out.
Are you part of the elderly group of people?
Makes no difference as that’s nothing to do with the point I’m making.

You’ve decided the elderly and vulnerable (both of which you can’t even spell) are less important than younger people.

Once we start categorising certain age groups as being less valuable in the post-restrictions world, that’s a pretty dark and dangerous pathway for society to be on.

Try showing a bit of human decency rather than thinking of yourself.
Think this has to be the best comment I have ever read from you. Point well put over with no superior attitude.

shildonlad
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 pm
Team Supported: Newcastle united and gatesheas
Location: Chesterfield

Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:26 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:35 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:39 am
shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:52 pm

A man who can’t even spell elderly seems to have decided older people’s lives are worth less than a good night out.
Are you part of the elderly group of people?
Makes no difference as that’s nothing to do with the point I’m making.

You’ve decided the elderly and vulnerable (both of which you can’t even spell) are less important than younger people.

Once we start categorising certain age groups as being less valuable in the post-restrictions world, that’s a pretty dark and dangerous pathway for society to be on.

Try showing a bit of human decency rather than thinking of yourself.
Even some old people are sick of restrictions, a bloke in his 80s sitting at the bar in his local pub or social club who has had both vacines really aint got much to loose. Are you old, at risk or just enjoy a debate?
I’m sure you can work it out. Come to think of it, you’re as thick as pigshit, so probably won’t.

However there are plenty of vulnerable people who are concerned about unlocking. Indeed we’ve seen that in thread.

But you think their concerns should be cast aside because it’s not your point of view.

You keep proving my point. Some people just want a two-tier society once restrictions are lifted. People like you are too self-centred to realise everyone should be taken into account, not just those who agree with you.
Folk can isolate, wear masks, social distance etc if they dont feel safe, up to them but why should the rest of us that dont wsnt to be made to just for a select few. Thats the viewpoint of a thick as pigshit holder of a hnd
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

shildonlad
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 pm
Team Supported: Newcastle united and gatesheas
Location: Chesterfield

Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:29 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:23 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:26 am
H1987 wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:25 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:12 pm
H1987 wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:36 pm
I think it's all well and good saying 'what good are vaccines if we can't return to normal' while you are sitting comfortably, double vaccinated. Vast swathes of Britain are not yet. The biggest problem this country has, and covid has further highlighted, is selfishness. Just because you've had your vaccine, you can't demand all of society return to normal at the drop of a hat because now it suits you. Vaccines are currently moving at around half the pace they were earlier in the year. Most under 40 aren't double vaccinated yet. Kids don't have any at all (and while it might not be making them sick, they can easily pass it on to others).

I'd be hopeful for later in the year, but imagine capacities will begin as reduced. I'm not sure the earlier poster is right about stupidity. It's pure selfishness. If you opened up Blackwell on limited capacity, idiots would congregate in certain sections and leave others wide open. I don't think it's stupidity, I think they know what they're doing is wrong. They just don't care. It's not a Darlington issue, it's a wider societal issue. A significant part of the population behaves like entitled babies who think rules shouldn't apply to them.

I can't wait until everything is back to normal, but watching the entitled demand perfect normality from July is starting to irritate me. Life isn't so bad right now, and if carrying on like this for a few extra months saves lives and makes sure everyone has that same level of protection from the virus, then so be it. The term 'freedom day' is absurd.
Another few months, aint we suffered enough already, what about all those families whos still not had wakes for loved ones, they want closure
What on earth are you on about? Unless your family lives overseas, you not seeing your family at this point is your fault.

You can go to houses, go inside, go to the pub, go to restaurants, and go in a stadium. No one is saying shut it down again, but comparing life now to life over this winter is just ridiculous, and I think you know it is.

If you can't handle wearing a mask and not going to a nightclub for a couple of months, you need to get a grip.
A couple of months! Nightclubs, theartes etc have been closed for over a year and cannot really re-open with social distanceing in place. And while these draconian measures in place we cant have a wake for my dad who passed away in april, in case you aint aware private functions still cant go ahead. Venues are loosing a fortune on such events not to mention weddings
Theatres? All the ones I go to are putting on virtual performances now. You pay and watch via You tube etc. Not totally great, but a good alternative that gives entertainment and makes them money.
Glad you dont mind it that way but apart from the financial aspect its soul destroying for the performers as well as the audience. Remember musicals, gigs etc released on dvd, streaming etc have a crowd present
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

shildonlad
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 pm
Team Supported: Newcastle united and gatesheas
Location: Chesterfield

Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:33 pm

H1987 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:58 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:50 am
H1987 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 am
I'm sorry about your dad, but why are you a special case when hundreds of thousands have lost loved ones in the past 18 months and been unable to grieve? Why are you entitled to? Furthermore, the rules on this have already changed. You are no longer restricted to six, and it's about how many a venue can accommodate.

Nightclubs and venues can still access furlough and need to be properly supported. Absolutely no one except the most ruthless wants them to go under. The arts industry is in dire need of support. That doesn't need to be done by throwing everything open at capacity and doesn't make economic sense either if we manage to spawn a new, more deadly variant.

I'll repeat the point again, millions are not yet fully vaccinated. We are still way below the threshold for immunity (some are estimating that is around 80 percent). You can't really stuff indoor venues in particular until we are at that point. Fortunately, the season is a couple of months away. Even then, I don't think we will be at full capacity for outdoor stadiums. Thankfully, we probably don't need to be. There's a difference between one-off games at Wembley and stadiums open at capacity all over the nation... and we are clearly less problematic than indoor events.
Never said my family were a special case, many more in the same boat as i said earlier. And when on earth did that rule of 6 change, cant have 60 people in a indoor venue, weddings for example are capped at 30 with loads of stupid restrictions. As for nightclubs and the arts, do you actually attend such places or know anyone that works in them? The furlough money is been wound down and they still need to pay rates, utilities etc. Venues have had grants to help them but it wont keep them going forever and even if they got more grants, its more for the tax payer to pick up. Letting them open with little or no restrictions is the best help for them, not talking about newcastle arena type places, more small venues who have struggled the most. There will always be variants but as far as im concerned those most at risk have been vacinated so they are running out of excuses to keep things shut
Are you deliberately ignoring the bits where I said financial support was necessary and it doesn’t make economic sense if we open everything to capacity right away and then end up with a new deadlier variant and have to close *again* (which absolutely no one wants).

As with most ‘lockdown sceptic’ types, this argument seems to be entirely in your own head. No one wants businesses to go bust, and it’s a bad faith argument suggesting that doing things gradually amounts to it.

Points out that millions of people are not yet vaccinated is not ‘running out of excuses’. It’s an entirely sensible, and probably the most important aspect of all of this.
The bulk that aint vacinated are those not at great risk simple as that. Theres been enough months of places closed or operating below capacity. Anyway not as if the country is going from full lockdown to fully open in a week, A Small amount of theartes and the like have been open since may whether reduced capacity or full capacity during pilot events. How much longer do you want lockdown to go on for, a few more weeks, months!
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

Darlogramps
Posts: 5582
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:11 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:35 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:39 am
shildonlad wrote:
Are you part of the elderly group of people?
Makes no difference as that’s nothing to do with the point I’m making.

You’ve decided the elderly and vulnerable (both of which you can’t even spell) are less important than younger people.

Once we start categorising certain age groups as being less valuable in the post-restrictions world, that’s a pretty dark and dangerous pathway for society to be on.

Try showing a bit of human decency rather than thinking of yourself.
Even some old people are sick of restrictions, a bloke in his 80s sitting at the bar in his local pub or social club who has had both vacines really aint got much to loose. Are you old, at risk or just enjoy a debate?
I’m sure you can work it out. Come to think of it, you’re as thick as pigshit, so probably won’t.

However there are plenty of vulnerable people who are concerned about unlocking. Indeed we’ve seen that in thread.

But you think their concerns should be cast aside because it’s not your point of view.

You keep proving my point. Some people just want a two-tier society once restrictions are lifted. People like you are too self-centred to realise everyone should be taken into account, not just those who agree with you.
Folk can isolate, wear masks, social distance etc if they dont feel safe, up to them but why should the rest of us that dont wsnt to be made to just for a select few. Thats the viewpoint of a thick as pigshit holder of a hnd
I mean none of that really makes any sense. That’s a word salad you’ve vomited on to the page. Reinforces the point about you being thick as mince.

But your point appears to be “Open everything up and anyone with concerns can wear masks, socially distance or not attend events”.

Trouble is that opinion favours a certain section of society. You’re deciding that those who are less at risk are more important, because you’re setting life up to favour them.

Why should someone who is vulnerable have to completely change their life? They can’t attend matches or socialise for risk of catching something that could kill them.

Answer me this. Why is your need to go to the football or the pub more important than, for example, a leukaemia sufferers’s need to socialise?

Because what you’re saying is everything should be set up for people like you, and the leukaemia sufferer has to work around that. They’re the one that gets inconvenienced, not you

What I’m asking is A) why do you view yourself as more important than that leukaemia sufferer?

And B) is there not a way everyone, including the most vulnerable, can benefit from unlocking? Because there’s no benefit if you have to stop going out for fear of dying if you try and socialise.

If cases were low we might be on the same page. But while the virus is spreading with more than 20K new cases a day, it’s not as simple.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

quaker4life
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:24 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Contact:

Re: Attendance

Post by quaker4life » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:08 pm

Let's look at this hypothetically.

You attend matches with your Dad, Brother, Uncle and Granddad, you and your brother are among the age group considered least at risk for arguments sake let's say 25 and under. Your dad and uncle are both in their 50's and they both have an underlying health condition and your granddad is in his 80's and is considered to be vulnerable, your dad and uncle see cases rising and are concerned about attending even though have both been double vaccinated and they are also concerned about your granddad who is elderly and most at risk of becoming seriously ill or dying from the virus.

Are you and your brother going to simply dismiss their worries and ditch them? That is more or less what DarloGramps is saying about marginalizing one section of society to favour another. I frequently heard the argument of just "shielding the vulnerable" which roughly translated to locking them away while everyone else does what they want, but as the PM said if we did that the virus would reach them eventually.

While you and your brother may have no issue with a large crowd with no social distancing your Dad, Uncle and Granddad may not be comfortable with it and they may wish to continue social distancing and wearing a face mask for their own peace of mind. The concerns of those who elderly or vulnerable - and remember that not all those who are categorised as vulnerable are elderly - should be taken into consideration and not simply swept aside, which is the point DarloGramps is making.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:56 pm

A point about masks. I’m picking up on this thread that people who are concerned can just wear a mask, but this (to me) is wrong.

Masks benefit others. They stop the wearer from coughing up germs and suchlike over others. So the concerned, considerate people will wear masks and this will benefit others, and many of these others will be non mask wearing.

In other words if you’re concerned, do something which will primarily benefit the people whose behaviour you are concerned about, but not you.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Re: Attendance

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:02 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:36 pm
Vaccines are currently moving at around half the pace they were earlier in the year. Most under 40 aren't double vaccinated yet. Kids don't have any at all (and while it might not be making them sick, they can easily pass it on to others).
Although it hasn't been said yet because it's a political and health elephant in the room, the obvious reason that the pace of vaccination has slowed is because of vaccine hesitancy in the younger and less at risk groups. It's not down to supply or lack of people willing to stick jabs in arms. Consequently, we may never get to a level of double vaccination that we're happy with.

Another thing to think about is, despite the scaremongering, 1 dose does still offer some protection against serious illness and death. Most people with only one dose will be in the younger, fitter cohort who are much less unlikely to become seriously ill or die anyway.

As for kids, there's a big debate on whether it is moral or ethical to vaccinate them because of the risk to benefit ratio, so this might not ever happen anyway, or at the very least may be a long way into the future. I'm on the fence as to whether we should or shouldn't.

The over 50s, who make up 99% of all deaths, are as protected as they're ever going to be. Many 40s-50s have had both doses now. We're talking 99.5% of all deaths now.

The chances of serious illness and death diminish even further under 40, and quite a few have had one jab which still diminishes that risk a little further. We're into fractions of a fraction now.

Anyway, I'd be happy if we opened up tomorrow, I know many others wouldn't be though.
#Arenaherewecome

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Re: Attendance

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:18 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:56 pm
A point about masks. I’m picking up on this thread that people who are concerned can just wear a mask, but this (to me) is wrong.

Masks benefit others. They stop the wearer from coughing up germs and suchlike over others. So the concerned, considerate people will wear masks and this will benefit others, and many of these others will be non mask wearing.

In other words if you’re concerned, do something which will primarily benefit the people whose behaviour you are concerned about, but not you.
I wore masks for just about a year - logic behind it at first was that it might give more confidence to very vulnerable people who might not have the confidence to leave their house after the first wave. Helping others, yeah that's fine. Then it was about (for me) well if it even helps cut transmission by just 5%, then it helps. That was my thought process during this period.

But the wearing of masks has wore me down and even though I have no health condition that I'm aware of, I've began to struggle to breathe with one on. I've seen me walk from my seat to the toilet in the pub, and had to take it off when I get there. It's actually causing me distress now, and I am resenting it. The mask has had to go. I've exempted myself.

Coupled with that, there's a lot of evidence that wearing cloth masks or flimsy disposable masks actually does very little in reducing transmission. I'm also double vaccinated which reduces my risk of catching it and spreading it, more so than the use of a mask will IMO.

Thirdly, due to vaccination, covid is much less of a threat now. To be honest I think we are at the stage were masks aren't necessary but if some people prefer to keep on wearing them.

When you think abut it, when you go to your mates house tonight to watch the footy, or to see the family, and several people will be there, in a small room, are you going to wear a mask? No. You don't have to.

But you do in a giant supermarket with a 50ft high ceiling and plenty of space, or in a third full pub with socially distanced tables.
#Arenaherewecome

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Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:38 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:02 pm
H1987 wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:36 pm
Vaccines are currently moving at around half the pace they were earlier in the year. Most under 40 aren't double vaccinated yet. Kids don't have any at all (and while it might not be making them sick, they can easily pass it on to others).
Although it hasn't been said yet because it's a political and health elephant in the room, the obvious reason that the pace of vaccination has slowed is because of vaccine hesitancy in the younger and less at risk groups. It's not down to supply or lack of people willing to stick jabs in arms. Consequently, we may never get to a level of double vaccination that we're happy with.

Another thing to think about is, despite the scaremongering, 1 dose does still offer some protection against serious illness and death. Most people with only one dose will be in the younger, fitter cohort who are much less unlikely to become seriously ill or die anyway.

As for kids, there's a big debate on whether it is moral or ethical to vaccinate them because of the risk to benefit ratio, so this might not ever happen anyway, or at the very least may be a long way into the future. I'm on the fence as to whether we should or shouldn't.

The over 50s, who make up 99% of all deaths, are as protected as they're ever going to be. Many 40s-50s have had both doses now. We're talking 99.5% of all deaths now.

The chances of serious illness and death diminish even further under 40, and quite a few have had one jab which still diminishes that risk a little further. We're into fractions of a fraction now.

Anyway, I'd be happy if we opened up tomorrow, I know many others wouldn't be though.

Ghost, re' kids, many of us have a "pockmark" on our left arms from the smallpox jab we were given as kids. Were they right to give us them? Hell yes. If you are ever going to get any sort of control on virus's thought has to be given to what is best for the entire comunity.

To be truthful I have virtually given up on listening to the news about Covid, but I am sure I heard a short time ago that 1 of the newer varients was having far more of an effect on younger people than the first varieties. Surly it is better to safeguard against further varients?

As I have stated, I had nil chance of survival If I caught Covid, but having had my 2 jabs my life is not far different to pre Covid apart from the fact I use a mask to protect others both physically and mentally and even with close friends and family I make sure I stand slightly further apart than I used to. Neither of which hurt me at all.
Why are people so selfish they do not realise that some of the rules are to help others as much if not more than ourselves.

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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:39 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:18 pm
Thirdly, due to vaccination, covid is much less of a threat now. To be honest I think we are at the stage were masks aren't necessary but if some people prefer to keep on wearing them.
I understand all the points you've put and I won't argue against any of them, but the point I was making is that some people would prefer it if OTHERS were to keep on wearing masks. Furthermore it's tricky to hold a constant opinion on this situation as the data and info keeps on changing. All I will put is the club should consider putting into place different areas, different zones - so as many people as possible can feel safe and have confidence in turning up to watch the mighty Darlo
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Attendance

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:47 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:38 pm
Ghost, re' kids, many of us have a "pockmark" on our left arms from the smallpox jab we were given as kids. Were they right to give us them? Hell yes. If you are ever going to get any sort of control on virus's thought has to be given to what is best for the entire comunity.
I also have a pock mark but from the BCG rather than small pox, and I'm sure many others do too. But TB, smallpox, affected children as much as adults so it was justified to vaccinate them. But as I said, I'm on the fence neither for or against vaccinating kids at the moment. I'll let the experts decide.
EDJOHNS wrote:As I have stated, I had nil chance of survival If I caught Covid, but having had my 2 jabs my life is not far different to pre Covid apart from the fact I use a mask to protect others both physically and mentally
I get that you didn't want to catch covid when you were unvaccinated.

But now that you are, the risk from yourself to others is relatively small. And if masks make virtually no difference, well...?
#Arenaherewecome

shildonlad
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:39 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:18 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:56 pm
A point about masks. I’m picking up on this thread that people who are concerned can just wear a mask, but this (to me) is wrong.

Masks benefit others. They stop the wearer from coughing up germs and suchlike over others. So the concerned, considerate people will wear masks and this will benefit others, and many of these others will be non mask wearing.

In other words if you’re concerned, do something which will primarily benefit the people whose behaviour you are concerned about, but not you.
I wore masks for just about a year - logic behind it at first was that it might give more confidence to very vulnerable people who might not have the confidence to leave their house after the first wave. Helping others, yeah that's fine. Then it was about (for me) well if it even helps cut transmission by just 5%, then it helps. That was my thought process during this period.

But the wearing of masks has wore me down and even though I have no health condition that I'm aware of, I've began to struggle to breathe with one on. I've seen me walk from my seat to the toilet in the pub, and had to take it off when I get there. It's actually causing me distress now, and I am resenting it. The mask has had to go. I've exempted myself.

Coupled with that, there's a lot of evidence that wearing cloth masks or flimsy disposable masks actually does very little in reducing transmission. I'm also double vaccinated which reduces my risk of catching it and spreading it, more so than the use of a mask will IMO.

Thirdly, due to vaccination, covid is much less of a threat now. To be honest I think we are at the stage were masks aren't necessary but if some people prefer to keep on wearing them.

When you think abut it, when you go to your mates house tonight to watch the footy, or to see the family, and several people will be there, in a small room, are you going to wear a mask? No. You don't have to.

But you do in a giant supermarket with a 50ft high ceiling and plenty of space, or in a third full pub with socially distanced tables.
Ive not bothered wearing one as much since been vacinated a few weeks ago, in shops, on the train and even in the pub. Only really been picked up on it twice on the train, most of the time they are more concerned about checking tickets. If you stuck to the rules fully you would wear one at a open air station like aycliffe or north road, which is crazy
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:20 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:47 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:38 pm
Ghost, re' kids, many of us have a "pockmark" on our left arms from the smallpox jab we were given as kids. Were they right to give us them? Hell yes. If you are ever going to get any sort of control on virus's thought has to be given to what is best for the entire comunity.
I also have a pock mark but from the BCG rather than small pox, and I'm sure many others do too. But TB, smallpox, affected children as much as adults so it was justified to vaccinate them. But as I said, I'm on the fence neither for or against vaccinating kids at the moment. I'll let the experts decide.
EDJOHNS wrote:As I have stated, I had nil chance of survival If I caught Covid, but having had my 2 jabs my life is not far different to pre Covid apart from the fact I use a mask to protect others both physically and mentally
I get that you didn't want to catch covid when you were unvaccinated.

But now that you are, the risk from yourself to others is relatively small. And if masks make virtually no difference, well...?
Wearing the mask to me now is more about making other people more comfortable. As I said elsewhere. People pushing past to go to the toilet in the tight space of stadium seating can cause unease. I have spoken to a few about this while discussing the return to games, (Both football and rugby), and many have said they are not happy with people not wearing them at times they have been advised to.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:32 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:39 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:18 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:56 pm
A point about masks. I’m picking up on this thread that people who are concerned can just wear a mask, but this (to me) is wrong.

Masks benefit others. They stop the wearer from coughing up germs and suchlike over others. So the concerned, considerate people will wear masks and this will benefit others, and many of these others will be non mask wearing.

In other words if you’re concerned, do something which will primarily benefit the people whose behaviour you are concerned about, but not you.
I wore masks for just about a year - logic behind it at first was that it might give more confidence to very vulnerable people who might not have the confidence to leave their house after the first wave. Helping others, yeah that's fine. Then it was about (for me) well if it even helps cut transmission by just 5%, then it helps. That was my thought process during this period.

But the wearing of masks has wore me down and even though I have no health condition that I'm aware of, I've began to struggle to breathe with one on. I've seen me walk from my seat to the toilet in the pub, and had to take it off when I get there. It's actually causing me distress now, and I am resenting it. The mask has had to go. I've exempted myself.

Coupled with that, there's a lot of evidence that wearing cloth masks or flimsy disposable masks actually does very little in reducing transmission. I'm also double vaccinated which reduces my risk of catching it and spreading it, more so than the use of a mask will IMO.

Thirdly, due to vaccination, covid is much less of a threat now. To be honest I think we are at the stage were masks aren't necessary but if some people prefer to keep on wearing them.

When you think abut it, when you go to your mates house tonight to watch the footy, or to see the family, and several people will be there, in a small room, are you going to wear a mask? No. You don't have to.

But you do in a giant supermarket with a 50ft high ceiling and plenty of space, or in a third full pub with socially distanced tables.
Ive not bothered wearing one as much since been vacinated a few weeks ago, in shops, on the train and even in the pub. Only really been picked up on it twice on the train, most of the time they are more concerned about checking tickets. If you stuck to the rules fully you would wear one at a open air station like aycliffe or north road, which is crazy
You wear a mask primarily for the benefit of others, to be considerate- it seems you’re zoned in mainly on you. I would rather avoid you at a football match. Nothing personal.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

shildonlad
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Re: Attendance

Post by shildonlad » Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:48 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:32 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:39 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:18 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:56 pm
A point about masks. I’m picking up on this thread that people who are concerned can just wear a mask, but this (to me) is wrong.

Masks benefit others. They stop the wearer from coughing up germs and suchlike over others. So the concerned, considerate people will wear masks and this will benefit others, and many of these others will be non mask wearing.

In other words if you’re concerned, do something which will primarily benefit the people whose behaviour you are concerned about, but not you.
I wore masks for just about a year - logic behind it at first was that it might give more confidence to very vulnerable people who might not have the confidence to leave their house after the first wave. Helping others, yeah that's fine. Then it was about (for me) well if it even helps cut transmission by just 5%, then it helps. That was my thought process during this period.

But the wearing of masks has wore me down and even though I have no health condition that I'm aware of, I've began to struggle to breathe with one on. I've seen me walk from my seat to the toilet in the pub, and had to take it off when I get there. It's actually causing me distress now, and I am resenting it. The mask has had to go. I've exempted myself.

Coupled with that, there's a lot of evidence that wearing cloth masks or flimsy disposable masks actually does very little in reducing transmission. I'm also double vaccinated which reduces my risk of catching it and spreading it, more so than the use of a mask will IMO.

Thirdly, due to vaccination, covid is much less of a threat now. To be honest I think we are at the stage were masks aren't necessary but if some people prefer to keep on wearing them.

When you think abut it, when you go to your mates house tonight to watch the footy, or to see the family, and several people will be there, in a small room, are you going to wear a mask? No. You don't have to.

But you do in a giant supermarket with a 50ft high ceiling and plenty of space, or in a third full pub with socially distanced tables.
Ive not bothered wearing one as much since been vacinated a few weeks ago, in shops, on the train and even in the pub. Only really been picked up on it twice on the train, most of the time they are more concerned about checking tickets. If you stuck to the rules fully you would wear one at a open air station like aycliffe or north road, which is crazy
You wear a mask primarily for the benefit of others, to be considerate- it seems you’re zoned in mainly on you. I would rather avoid you at a football match. Nothing personal.
If you have received a vacine why worry. You cant expect everyone to keep wearing masks once they aint mandatory any more
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:09 pm

You can still catch COVID if you’ve had 2 jabs and you can still get ill. Younger people will feel more confident than people past their prime. Healthy people ditto.

You have a one dimensional self centred view on this situation.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Lawman3
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Re: Attendance

Post by Lawman3 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:38 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:09 pm
You can still catch COVID if you’ve had 2 jabs and you can still get ill. Younger people will feel more confident than people past their prime. Healthy people ditto.

You have a one dimensional self centred view on this situation.
This is the point that a lot of people miss. Having 2 jabs doesn’t necessarily stop you getting it, or passing it on. It boosts the immune system to prevent serious illness and hospitalisation, but some people will still get ill and die despite having a vaccine. No vaccine is 100% effective. People still need to take care, and be considerate.
Never argue with an idiot: The best possible outcome is that you win an argument with an idiot.

jjljks
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Re: Attendance

Post by jjljks » Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:45 am

Fact: Covid transmission can't occur in a vacuum, so why don't we play at the Arena where there is no atmosphere? :silent:

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Re: Attendance

Post by joejaques » Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:17 am

jjljks wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:45 am
Fact: Covid transmission can't occur in a vacuum, so why don't we play at the Arena where there is no atmosphere? :silent:
:clap: :lol: :D :clap: :lol: :D :roll:
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Re: Attendance

Post by EDJOHNS » Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:37 am

Lawman3 wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:38 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:09 pm
You can still catch COVID if you’ve had 2 jabs and you can still get ill. Younger people will feel more confident than people past their prime. Healthy people ditto.

You have a one dimensional self centred view on this situation.
This is the point that a lot of people miss. Having 2 jabs doesn’t necessarily stop you getting it, or passing it on. It boosts the immune system to prevent serious illness and hospitalisation, but some people will still get ill and die despite having a vaccine. No vaccine is 100% effective. People still need to take care, and be considerate.
This says more or less my thinking now.
I know I had zero chance of survival without the jabs. Now I have had them I have something like a decent chance of getting over it if I catch it.
Aged in my 70's and with other health problems my life expectation is not massively long anyway so I may as well enjoy what time I have left as best I can, however, I have a 40 year old daughter who also has health issues and a grand daughter aged nearly 3 and a great grand son who is 6 both of whom have issues. I want to make sure I keep them as safe as possible thus want the chance of me passing it to them unknown to be as low as possible.
If I have family with issues I am sure others have as well. I do not want to be responsible for others suffering, thus I will stay masked when in close contact, ie, passing people in football/rugby stands.

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Re: Attendance

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:22 am

Shildon lad has an “I’m alright Jack” attitude.

But we’re a club. We need to consider all fans, young and old. We should stick together. For instance if I saw an elderly Darlo fan getting roughed up after a match I would attempt to do something about it. Not just walk off.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

Darlo_Pete
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Re: Attendance

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:58 pm

Does any body have a full list of our pre-season games?

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Re: Attendance

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:05 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:Does any body have a full list of our pre-season games?
Yes, but we’re not telling.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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