Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

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shildonlad
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:54 am

al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:40 am
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:39 am
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:37 am
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:46 am

I bet you look forward to a lockdown been imposed again to prove you were right, mind sage are probably thinking the same. Trust me if restrictions were largely ended in September there would still be folk complaining and there would be a exit wave of cases, possibly worse as schools go back then as well as unis and colleges. Remember sages big predictions for hospitalisations and deaths when schools opened, when pubs re-opened, was not really as bad as thought at all, this modelling is always worst case scenario. Not even fully re-opened yet and already folk are banging on about lockdown again, might happen, might not, just take every day as it comes. Would think stuff like vacine passports would be used in the first instance if things got bad, what would another lockdown achieve, cases would only rise again once things re-opened and could the government really afford furlough again not to mention the suffering lockdowns cause
The modelling isn't always worst case scenario - that's just factually wrong.

With this reopening, hospital admissions are already higher than the SAGE modelling suggested they would be
Look at the cases compared to deaths lately, a big difference indeed. Dont suppose we will see zero admissions anytime soon, seems this is what sage expect
No that isn't what SAGE expect at all - so factually incorrect again.
So what about that so called big increase in deaths they predicted as things re-opened in may and june, not really happened has it
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:00 am

shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:54 am
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:40 am
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:39 am
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:37 am
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:46 am

I bet you look forward to a lockdown been imposed again to prove you were right, mind sage are probably thinking the same. Trust me if restrictions were largely ended in September there would still be folk complaining and there would be a exit wave of cases, possibly worse as schools go back then as well as unis and colleges. Remember sages big predictions for hospitalisations and deaths when schools opened, when pubs re-opened, was not really as bad as thought at all, this modelling is always worst case scenario. Not even fully re-opened yet and already folk are banging on about lockdown again, might happen, might not, just take every day as it comes. Would think stuff like vacine passports would be used in the first instance if things got bad, what would another lockdown achieve, cases would only rise again once things re-opened and could the government really afford furlough again not to mention the suffering lockdowns cause
The modelling isn't always worst case scenario - that's just factually wrong.

With this reopening, hospital admissions are already higher than the SAGE modelling suggested they would be
Look at the cases compared to deaths lately, a big difference indeed. Dont suppose we will see zero admissions anytime soon, seems this is what sage expect
No that isn't what SAGE expect at all - so factually incorrect again.
So what about that so called big increase in deaths they predicted as things re-opened in may and june, not really happened has it
I'm not sure what that's got to do with me pointing out your factually incorrect statements? I'm not advocating one thing or another, simply correcting you where you are wrong

Thankfully it seems the modelling was an overestimate with the impact of the last re-opening. Unfortunately it seems that the models this time are underestimating hospital admissions, which I'm sure everyone with any sense of compassion for others will be concerned about.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:43 am

Which models are underestimates?

To be honest I have seen that many models I may have missed but my understanding is we may have just gone over/above the best case scenario model, but are miles away from previous suggested medium and worst case scenarios. Maybe this is what you mean that we are currently slightly worse than the best case model, although we have been tracking below it for some time in terms of hospitalisations.

The problem we seem to have is that whatever and whenever the government open up we are going to have this reasonably large wave of cases, which will results in a increase in hospitalisations and deaths (not at the numbers previously seen though). It seems Chris Whitty advised we will have the same/similar wave whenever, so opening up during summer and school holidays seems the best time to me and certainly before we get anywhere near winter. Last thing you want is to start the wave around Sep/Oct time running into the expected winter pressure.

We seem to have 10m vaccine hesitant and 10m kids (approx. numbers), so we can't avoid some challenges and deaths no matter if we open up now or in four weeks time. Every country is battling this decision, Israel nervous, Netherlands went early and pulling back, USA pushing forward.

I am comfortable opening up but that doesn't mean to say I don't understand others fears. My thoughts take into account an elderly mother, myself and children of the going out age, who I personally feel have been held back too long now from making a life for themselves as I enjoyed at their age.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:49 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:43 am
Which models are underestimates?

To be honest I have seen that many models I may have missed but my understanding is we may have just gone over/above the best case scenario model, but are miles away from previous suggested medium and worst case scenarios. Maybe this is what you mean that we are currently slightly worse than the best case model, although we have been tracking below it for some time in terms of hospitalisations.

The problem we seem to have is that whatever and whenever the government open up we are going to have this reasonably large wave of cases, which will results in a increase in hospitalisations and deaths (not at the numbers previously seen though). It seems Chris Whitty advised we will have the same/similar wave whenever, so opening up during summer and school holidays seems the best time to me and certainly before we get anywhere near winter. Last thing you want is to start the wave around Sep/Oct time running into the expected winter pressure.

We seem to have 10m vaccine hesitant and 10m kids (approx. numbers), so we can't avoid some challenges and deaths no matter if we open up now or in four weeks time. Every country is battling this decision, Israel nervous, Netherlands went early and pulling back, USA pushing forward.

I am comfortable opening up but that doesn't mean to say I don't understand others fears. My thoughts take into account an elderly mother, myself and children of the going out age, who I personally feel have been held back too long now from making a life for themselves as I enjoyed at their age.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sage ... -68tdkx7mz

So it's not an underestimate based on best case, but are in fact worse than the upper bound on estimates (presumably 95% confidence intervals)

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:05 am

Cheers Al

Had a quick google because I honestly have seen that many models, I think my head will explode these days. An extract below just shows some of those that were out there before the cancelation of the June unlocking.

I have to say I am at the point where I check the actual data myself and have little faith in the modelling, I work in an environment that uses modelling and I am not surprised to see that quite often it is wrong. I am sure the pressure of playing it on the safe side must affect these models and I don't envy those doing the job, imagine if they said it would be fine and it wasn't much better to say it will be worse and be wrong.
Scientists advising SAGE this month estimated what a more transmissible strain could do to the country after lockdown is lifted in June and claimed it could trigger up to 20,000 hospital admissions per day in a worst-case scenario. January’s peak, which nearly crippled the NHS, was around 3,800 a day in England.

A Warwick University modelling team cautioned that if it was 40 per cent more transmissible the next surge could be worse than the second wave, with up to 6,000 daily admissions, and a 50 per cent increase could lead to 10,000 per day. Less grisly numbers from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine suggested a 50 per cent rise could lead to 4,000 per day.
https://uknewstoday.co.uk/2021/05/14/co ... nfectious/

All in all though, I think we have to monitor the data and the numbers and refresh the model expectations but we can't be held back by fear either. It's very emotive because whatever happens at point of opening deaths will go up, that's not a nice message but the truth is it will happen.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:15 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:05 am
Cheers Al

Had a quick google because I honestly have seen that many models, I think my head will explode these days. An extract below just shows some of those that were out there before the cancelation of the June unlocking.

I have to say I am at the point where I check the actual data myself and have little faith in the modelling, I work in an environment that uses modelling and I am not surprised to see that quite often it is wrong. I am sure the pressure of playing it on the safe side must affect these models and I don't envy those doing the job, imagine if they said it would be fine and it wasn't much better to say it will be worse and be wrong.
Scientists advising SAGE this month estimated what a more transmissible strain could do to the country after lockdown is lifted in June and claimed it could trigger up to 20,000 hospital admissions per day in a worst-case scenario. January’s peak, which nearly crippled the NHS, was around 3,800 a day in England.

A Warwick University modelling team cautioned that if it was 40 per cent more transmissible the next surge could be worse than the second wave, with up to 6,000 daily admissions, and a 50 per cent increase could lead to 10,000 per day. Less grisly numbers from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine suggested a 50 per cent rise could lead to 4,000 per day.
https://uknewstoday.co.uk/2021/05/14/co ... nfectious/

All in all though, I think we have to monitor the data and the numbers and refresh the model expectations but we can't be held back by fear either. It's very emotive because whatever happens at point of opening deaths will go up, that's not a nice message but the truth is it will happen.

Yes there are are a large number of models out there - from the 7th July papers it seems SPI-M has 3 teams modelling various scenarios each, and then they produce some form of consensus model. The sage papers are published on the government website, but there are so many that even those who have the technical skills to understand them would probably struggle to find the time!

I can very well understand that predicting outcomes from predictions of viral spread, with all the uncertainties associated with that, couple with the exponential nature of everything which amplifies small changes in initial assumptions, can lead to models which are monstrously complex and very difficult to achieve accuracy with.

It's an incredibly difficult decision for governments to face, and I offer no opinion on what is best to do - I was simply correcting shildonlads false beliefs about SAGE and the modelling

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by loan_star » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:32 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:48 pm
Also loan_star, something is not quite right about your doctor friend. You’ve either made him up, or he knows nothing and should be struck off. No doctor would call restrictions rubbish, given they’re the only proven method of reducing hospitalisations (vaccines prevent them, which is different to reducing the numbers).

Feels very convenient you just happen to play cricket with one of the few medical professionals who rejects the effectiveness of restrictions.
Ah yes of course, I just made him up so I could get into an argument with you!!! :crazy:
I could give you a name but that would be wrong on a public forum. And where did I say I agreed with him? He is a medical professional and even they disagree sometimes you know! Its his view that the restrictions made little difference in the long term as people would still catch it.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:36 am

Models aren't necessarily meant to come true, they are a trajectory based on assumptions on some variables. They have limitations and they are only validated once time elapses.

They are only ever at point in time. They will then apply changes to see what the potential outcome is.

The deniers seem to say "but they said this would happen and it didn't come true"..."no they said that applying current trajectory means if we don't do anything different this could be the outcome"...the fact that there were interventions changes that trajectory.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:58 am

shildonlad wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:50 pm
Also enjoying there time in the limelight, who had heard of them before the pandemic? Some of them are probably linked to the opposition, that susan michie sure was part of labour
I bumped into Chris Whitty* last week when I was down in London.

He told me that he was very disappointed in the way that his career had turned out because up until this pesky pandemic he wasn't getting enough of the limelight. He also said that originally he applied to be the Bass player in Muse but someone better got the job - however the good news is that in a few months time he's off to Love Island, where he can get it together with some really fit birds.


(*Professor Christopher John MacRae Whitty CB FRCP FFPH FMedSc)
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

shildonlad
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:22 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:58 am
shildonlad wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:50 pm
Also enjoying there time in the limelight, who had heard of them before the pandemic? Some of them are probably linked to the opposition, that susan michie sure was part of labour
I bumped into Chris Whitty* last week when I was down in London.

He told me that he was very disappointed in the way that his career had turned out because up until this pesky pandemic he wasn't getting enough of the limelight. He also said that originally he applied to be the Bass player in Muse but someone better got the job - however the good news is that in a few months time he's off to Love Island, where he can get it together with some really fit birds.


(*Professor Christopher John MacRae Whitty CB FRCP FFPH FMedSc)
Like or hate him witty is the official government scientist and lives in the real world more than some but how many of these scientists is there, seems to be a differernt one haveing there two pennyworth on the news every day
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by al_quaker » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:31 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:22 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:58 am
shildonlad wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:50 pm
Also enjoying there time in the limelight, who had heard of them before the pandemic? Some of them are probably linked to the opposition, that susan michie sure was part of labour
I bumped into Chris Whitty* last week when I was down in London.

He told me that he was very disappointed in the way that his career had turned out because up until this pesky pandemic he wasn't getting enough of the limelight. He also said that originally he applied to be the Bass player in Muse but someone better got the job - however the good news is that in a few months time he's off to Love Island, where he can get it together with some really fit birds.


(*Professor Christopher John MacRae Whitty CB FRCP FFPH FMedSc)
Like or hate him witty is the official government scientist and lives in the real world more than some but how many of these scientists is there, seems to be a differernt one haveing there two pennyworth on the news every day
Who sits on SAGE and its sub-commitees and who employs them is publically available information. I'd imagine most of them have staff profile pages at their employing university which detail their research, qualifications, funders and publications, so you could find out how many scientists participate at SAGE meetings if you wanted to. Took me about 3 seconds to google it.

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Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:24 pm

loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:48 pm
Also loan_star, something is not quite right about your doctor friend. You’ve either made him up, or he knows nothing and should be struck off. No doctor would call restrictions rubbish, given they’re the only proven method of reducing hospitalisations (vaccines prevent them, which is different to reducing the numbers).

Feels very convenient you just happen to play cricket with one of the few medical professionals who rejects the effectiveness of restrictions.
Ah yes of course, I just made him up so I could get into an argument with you!!! :crazy:
I could give you a name but that would be wrong on a public forum. And where did I say I agreed with him? He is a medical professional and even they disagree sometimes you know! Its his view that the restrictions made little difference in the long term as people would still catch it.
Fairly clear you agree with him, given your past statements. And as I say, it feels rather convenient you were able to bring up someone who agrees with you, straight after lawman3 said he’d spoken to his concerned GP.

And if your doctor friend thinks the restrictions were pointless because they have little long term impact, he’s a bit thick and I’d be worried about him treating anyone. The restrictions we’ve had over the last 16 months weren’t meant to prevent Covid in the long term. They are and always have been a short-term measure until the vaccine programme can prevent Covid from causing too many hospitalisations and deaths.

The restrictions were all about keeping Covid rates down so the NHS in particular could function properly. They are not a long-term solution. The vaccines are the longer term solution.

It’s indisputable that without restrictions, many, many more people would have died from Covid last year. Yet seemingly you’re claiming to know a medical professional who thinks that should have happened.

Possibly you do need to name him because he’s a bit of a danger to his patients if he doesn’t understand that. That’s why I’m struggling to believe he actually exists. It would be staggering if a fully qualified medical professional didn’t understand the purpose of the restrictions, and thinks it should have been left to run rampant last year.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by quaker4life » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:44 pm

You're just digging your heels in now. :lol:
DarloGramps wrote:200 dead a day, and 2,000 in hospital each day too, by the Government’s own modelling. Those daily hospitalisation numbers alone are unsustainable and if they end up anywhere near that, more restrictions will be needed and next week’s grand unlocking will all have been for nothing.
There is always an element of uncertainty when it comes to modelling and I'm confident that if there was even a slight chance the NHS may become overwhelmed we would not proceed next week. And again as Chris Whitty said there will be an "exit wave" regardless of when you lift restrictions it doesn't matter if it happens this month, next month, or next year it will happen it's an inevitability and it will in turn lead to a rise in hospitalizations and sadly deaths however the increase we have seen recently is nowhere near the level we saw at the beginning of the year due to the vaccine rollout.
DarloGramps wrote:By “kick the can down the road”, I presume you mean completing the vaccine programme in the Government’s own specified timeframe in mid-September.

By doing that, the extent of exit wave will be reduced, allowing for a smoother return to normality. I fail to see how that is “futile”. More that you’re just impatient.

Instead, we have Government scientists warning of a return to restrictions by September if we carry on the same course we’re on now.

Interestingly the Government have already started adding caveats to next week’s free-for-all. Very different in tone to even last week, by all accounts.

However they’ll condemn hundreds to die each day, just to save face.
By "Kick the can down the road" I mean further delay which for the reasons I outlined in my previous post is pointless and again as has been said by Chris Whitty there is no evidence that it will make any difference. It was a necessary step to hold off on June 21st but now there is nothing to achieved by doing so any longer, and I don't believe there's any suggestion an "exit wave" will be reduced by completing the vaccination programme if that were the case surely we would wait till mid September?

Also I disagree with your suggestion that I am impatient, I have abided by the restrictions like millions of others have during the last 16 months but if there is no longer a justified cause in keeping them in place then they need to be lifted ASAP. And some of these scientists are quite frankly doom mongers and lockdown lovers who will always look at the worse case scenario and yes the government rhetoric has shifted to one of caution but regardless I believe many people would have exercised caution anyway and will continue to do so.

Also sadly regardless, people will die this is an unavoidable fact that tragically we are going to have to learn to live as we learn to live with the virus.
DarloGramps wrote: Now, now. You’re playing fast and loose with facts here. You’re trying to make out restrictions had no impact on games being disrupted.

In fact, most disruption happened when cases were high, just as is happening right now. Dithering Boris was more interested in popularity than saving lives so delayed taking the action that eventually got things back under control.

And happened during that lockdown? Oh yes, cases dropped and the season for the top five levels was completed. Funny how you ignored that fact.

I don’t mind you stating an alternative opinion. However rewriting history and misrepresenting the truth is pathetic, and shows how little credibility and substance your argument has.
On the same token, you seemed to imply that with restrictions in place there was no disruption hence my comment above, I was referring the NLN season which did not finish and I cannot comment on the other 5 leagues as I was not following them throughout last season however I was following our situation quite closely.

I don't see how I re-wrote history or misrepresented the truth but if I'm sorry if that's how you have interpreted it, also yes cases did go do down but ultimately we did not get rid of the virus, and nor will we.
DarloGramps wrote: Not so much a line drawn in the sand, more you burying your head in the sand. We’re at a point where Darlington cannot field a team because of Covid, yet you insist we plough regardless and increase cases even more.

You’re delusional and and the disruption we’re already seeing is proving this to be the case.
If I'm delusional then god knows what that makes Boris Johnson, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance?!

If now isn't a good time for you, when is? Next month? Next year? Whenever Darlo can field a team?

Once again, there will be disruption and cases will rise and as has been said above this will happen regardless of when restrictions are lifted and yet you want to delay it further even though it will not many any difference? Perhaps you're the one burying your head in the sand?

We can do this over and over but we would just be flogging a dead horse, like it or not we will be proceeding on July 19th.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:48 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:42 pm
Oh, and if we think it’s bad now, wait until cases are hitting hundreds of thousands each day.
There'd be no one left to infect in no time, if that were the case.

As it happens, I don't think we'll get much past 50k a day.
#Arenaherewecome

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by onewayup » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:55 pm

It doesn't matter how, who,what, as long as you follow the correct protocols and use common sense, you will be safe, it's in everyone's own interests to do what is necessary to stay safe,
One is ones own safety expert,
Stay safe everyone, you control your own destiny.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:37 pm

I have heard of several people including family members who have been pinged by the NHS app in the last few days. It seems like this must be happening more and more especially in the NE where cases are so high at present. Many people including large numbers of schoolchildren are being told to self isolate but we could soon be reaching a position where vital services and businesses are crippled by workers being told to stay at home. Surely if you are double jabbed and doing home testing the Government should be allowing people to continue to go out.
What is happening is many people are simply deleting the NHS app to avoid being told to isolate thus rendering it ineffective. It seems to me like our leaders are getting themselves into a really difficult position by opening up everything and yet with the virus still so active more people than ever are being told to isolate. This will just lead to confusion and ultimately more people disobeying isolation rules.
I do not pretend to have all the answers but I think a lot of people will simply start pleasing themselves from July 19th and we run the risk of ruining a lot of the hard work of the last 16 months. People I feel most sympathy for are the vulnerable who have medical issues which mean the vaccine may not be very effective for them and now have to cope with the free for all likely to ensue.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by m62exile » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:40 pm

Old Git wrote:I have heard of several people including family members who have been pinged by the NHS app in the last few days. It seems like this must be happening more and more especially in the NE where cases are so high at present. Many people including large numbers of schoolchildren are being told to self isolate but we could soon be reaching a position where vital services and businesses are crippled by workers being told to stay at home. Surely if you are double jabbed and doing home testing the Government should be allowing people to continue to go out.
What is happening is many people are simply deleting the NHS app to avoid being told to isolate thus rendering it ineffective. It seems to me like our leaders are getting themselves into a really difficult position by opening up everything and yet with the virus still so active more people than ever are being told to isolate. This will just lead to confusion and ultimately more people disobeying isolation rules.
I do not pretend to have all the answers but I think a lot of people will simply start pleasing themselves from July 19th and we run the risk of ruining a lot of the hard work of the last 16 months. People I feel most sympathy for are the vulnerable who have medical issues which mean the vaccine may not be very effective for them and now have to cope with the free for all likely to ensue.
Close contacts who are double jabbed or U18’s will not need to isolate after August 16th if they take a daily home test instead.


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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:16 pm

m62exile wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:40 pm
Old Git wrote:I have heard of several people including family members who have been pinged by the NHS app in the last few days. It seems like this must be happening more and more especially in the NE where cases are so high at present. Many people including large numbers of schoolchildren are being told to self isolate but we could soon be reaching a position where vital services and businesses are crippled by workers being told to stay at home. Surely if you are double jabbed and doing home testing the Government should be allowing people to continue to go out.
What is happening is many people are simply deleting the NHS app to avoid being told to isolate thus rendering it ineffective. It seems to me like our leaders are getting themselves into a really difficult position by opening up everything and yet with the virus still so active more people than ever are being told to isolate. This will just lead to confusion and ultimately more people disobeying isolation rules.
I do not pretend to have all the answers but I think a lot of people will simply start pleasing themselves from July 19th and we run the risk of ruining a lot of the hard work of the last 16 months. People I feel most sympathy for are the vulnerable who have medical issues which mean the vaccine may not be very effective for them and now have to cope with the free for all likely to ensue.
Close contacts who are double jabbed or U18’s will not need to isolate after August 16th if they take a daily home test instead.


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That date needs to be brought forward otherwise people will simply not comply.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:21 pm

onewayup wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:55 pm
It doesn't matter how, who,what, as long as you follow the correct protocols and use common sense, you will be safe, it's in everyone's own interests to do what is necessary to stay safe,
One is ones own safety expert,
Stay safe everyone, you control your own destiny.
I think what you've written above is dangerous.

Do you think everyone up to now who has caught C19 has taken a risk? Do you seriously think that if you "follow the correct protocols and use common sense" that "you will be safe" no matter what? If so, how gloriously simple everything is in your world.

Yes you can negate risk by being sensible but if a larger than previous amount of people are out and about, and a larger than previous amount of these people carry the virus then the situation is more dangerous, no matter how much "common sense" and "protocols" you use.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

shildonlad
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:28 pm

Old Git wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:37 pm
I have heard of several people including family members who have been pinged by the NHS app in the last few days. It seems like this must be happening more and more especially in the NE where cases are so high at present. Many people including large numbers of schoolchildren are being told to self isolate but we could soon be reaching a position where vital services and businesses are crippled by workers being told to stay at home. Surely if you are double jabbed and doing home testing the Government should be allowing people to continue to go out.
What is happening is many people are simply deleting the NHS app to avoid being told to isolate thus rendering it ineffective. It seems to me like our leaders are getting themselves into a really difficult position by opening up everything and yet with the virus still so active more people than ever are being told to isolate. This will just lead to confusion and ultimately more people disobeying isolation rules.
I do not pretend to have all the answers but I think a lot of people will simply start pleasing themselves from July 19th and we run the risk of ruining a lot of the hard work of the last 16 months. People I feel most sympathy for are the vulnerable who have medical issues which mean the vaccine may not be very effective for them and now have to cope with the free for all likely to ensue.
My workplace has told us to turn off the location tracker off on that nhs app whilst on the premises, would hardly be good for business the whole place isolating due to one person testing positive. So if company directors are sick of it does not hold much hope for individuals. Also if someone takes a test at home and its positive whos policing this isolation thing, never heard if anyone supposed to be isolating getting pulled up, how could it be proved
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

m62exile
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by m62exile » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:43 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Old Git wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:37 pm
I have heard of several people including family members who have been pinged by the NHS app in the last few days. It seems like this must be happening more and more especially in the NE where cases are so high at present. Many people including large numbers of schoolchildren are being told to self isolate but we could soon be reaching a position where vital services and businesses are crippled by workers being told to stay at home. Surely if you are double jabbed and doing home testing the Government should be allowing people to continue to go out.
What is happening is many people are simply deleting the NHS app to avoid being told to isolate thus rendering it ineffective. It seems to me like our leaders are getting themselves into a really difficult position by opening up everything and yet with the virus still so active more people than ever are being told to isolate. This will just lead to confusion and ultimately more people disobeying isolation rules.
I do not pretend to have all the answers but I think a lot of people will simply start pleasing themselves from July 19th and we run the risk of ruining a lot of the hard work of the last 16 months. People I feel most sympathy for are the vulnerable who have medical issues which mean the vaccine may not be very effective for them and now have to cope with the free for all likely to ensue.
My workplace has told us to turn off the location tracker off on that nhs app whilst on the premises, would hardly be good for business the whole place isolating due to one person testing positive. So if company directors are sick of it does not hold much hope for individuals. Also if someone takes a test at home and its positive whos policing this isolation thing, never heard if anyone supposed to be isolating getting pulled up, how could it be proved
Are you saying you’d need to be “policed” to stay at home if you knew you had tested positive for Covid?


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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:00 pm

It’s all just a game for Shildon Lad.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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onewayup
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by onewayup » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:26 pm

I personally only know of one person who has contracted the virus, she is a care worker,
People like you old git need to think before you post,staying safe is a priority for everyone you are your own safety expert it's upto you how much you expose yourself ,for me I will continue to follow protol and stay safe, especially older people need to take extra care in being, staying safe.

shildonlad
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:32 pm

m62exile wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:43 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Old Git wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:37 pm
I have heard of several people including family members who have been pinged by the NHS app in the last few days. It seems like this must be happening more and more especially in the NE where cases are so high at present. Many people including large numbers of schoolchildren are being told to self isolate but we could soon be reaching a position where vital services and businesses are crippled by workers being told to stay at home. Surely if you are double jabbed and doing home testing the Government should be allowing people to continue to go out.
What is happening is many people are simply deleting the NHS app to avoid being told to isolate thus rendering it ineffective. It seems to me like our leaders are getting themselves into a really difficult position by opening up everything and yet with the virus still so active more people than ever are being told to isolate. This will just lead to confusion and ultimately more people disobeying isolation rules.
I do not pretend to have all the answers but I think a lot of people will simply start pleasing themselves from July 19th and we run the risk of ruining a lot of the hard work of the last 16 months. People I feel most sympathy for are the vulnerable who have medical issues which mean the vaccine may not be very effective for them and now have to cope with the free for all likely to ensue.
My workplace has told us to turn off the location tracker off on that nhs app whilst on the premises, would hardly be good for business the whole place isolating due to one person testing positive. So if company directors are sick of it does not hold much hope for individuals. Also if someone takes a test at home and its positive whos policing this isolation thing, never heard if anyone supposed to be isolating getting pulled up, how could it be proved
Are you saying you’d need to be “policed” to stay at home if you knew you had tested positive for Covid?


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You know anyone that was supposed to be isolating for covid go out the house and get caught, i aint
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:52 pm

Shildonlad, do you not know that questions should have a question mark at the end of them? See, like i've just done ;)

I thought you said you had an H.N.D ?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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loan_star
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by loan_star » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:54 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:24 pm
loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:48 pm
Also loan_star, something is not quite right about your doctor friend. You’ve either made him up, or he knows nothing and should be struck off. No doctor would call restrictions rubbish, given they’re the only proven method of reducing hospitalisations (vaccines prevent them, which is different to reducing the numbers).

Feels very convenient you just happen to play cricket with one of the few medical professionals who rejects the effectiveness of restrictions.
Ah yes of course, I just made him up so I could get into an argument with you!!! :crazy:
I could give you a name but that would be wrong on a public forum. And where did I say I agreed with him? He is a medical professional and even they disagree sometimes you know! Its his view that the restrictions made little difference in the long term as people would still catch it.
Fairly clear you agree with him, given your past statements. And as I say, it feels rather convenient you were able to bring up someone who agrees with you, straight after lawman3 said he’d spoken to his concerned GP.

And if your doctor friend thinks the restrictions were pointless because they have little long term impact, he’s a bit thick and I’d be worried about him treating anyone. The restrictions we’ve had over the last 16 months weren’t meant to prevent Covid in the long term. They are and always have been a short-term measure until the vaccine programme can prevent Covid from causing too many hospitalisations and deaths.

The restrictions were all about keeping Covid rates down so the NHS in particular could function properly. They are not a long-term solution. The vaccines are the longer term solution.

It’s indisputable that without restrictions, many, many more people would have died from Covid last year. Yet seemingly you’re claiming to know a medical professional who thinks that should have happened.

Possibly you do need to name him because he’s a bit of a danger to his patients if he doesn’t understand that. That’s why I’m struggling to believe he actually exists. It would be staggering if a fully qualified medical professional didn’t understand the purpose of the restrictions, and thinks it should have been left to run rampant last year.
Why should I name him? He’s not on here to defend himself. And put it this way he knows way more about this than you or I do. It’s highly arrogant of you to talk down a professional in his field because enough don’t agree with him, especially when you don’t even know him.

Vokuhila
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Vokuhila » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:56 pm

onewayup - I'll give you a million drachma if you write your next post and don't use the word 'safe' or talk about people exposing themselves.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:09 pm

onewayup has the answer to all our ills.

If everyone does what is necessary to stay safe, then no one will get ill. It really is that simple.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Darlogramps
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Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:30 pm

loan_star wrote: Why should I name him? He’s not on here to defend himself. And put it this way he knows way more about this than you or I do. It’s highly arrogant of you to talk down a professional in his field because enough don’t agree with him, especially when you don’t even know him.
What you’ve just demonstrated is the appeal to authority fallacy. “He’s in a position of authority, therefore he knows more than you or I.”

Not necessarily, and actually that’s a dangerous thought process. It encourages complacency.

He will make mistakes like any human being. In this instance I believe he’s wrong and have explained why. Fundamentally, your doctor friend (if he exists) has misunderstood why restrictions were brought in. That’s pretty alarming for a medical professional to be getting that so very wrong.

And it’s unarguable that he’s got it wrong. Restrictions were brought in as a short term measure until the vaccines could provide longer term protection. For him to be talking about restrictions in the context of long term solutions is simply incorrect.

If you don’t want to question him because it makes you feel comfortable, be my guest. But I’m perfectly entitled to question any point of view put forward. It’s called critical thinking.

It’s like saying because Boris Johnson is Prime Minister we should accept what he says as gospel. That’s a plainly ridiculous way of thinking.

One final point. You yourself have rejected medical professionals’ opinions. In another thread you rejected any suggestion the final restriction removal on July 19th should be delayed. Hundreds of doctors have written to the Prime Minister saying actually next week’s unlocking is a mistake.

So why is it OK for you to reject hundreds of doctors’ opinions, but if I think one doctor is wrong, that’s “highly arrogant”? Please answer that question directly.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:30 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Darlogramps
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:32 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:42 pm
Oh, and if we think it’s bad now, wait until cases are hitting hundreds of thousands each day.
There'd be no one left to infect in no time, if that were the case.

As it happens, I don't think we'll get much past 50k a day.
Take that up with the Health Secretary. He’s the one who was suggesting the number of infections would reach six figures by August.

And people can get reinfected with the virus. Catching it once doesn’t prevent another infection.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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