Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

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Darlogramps
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Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:28 pm

quaker4life wrote:
There is always an element of uncertainty when it comes to modelling and I'm confident that if there was even a slight chance the NHS may become overwhelmed we would not proceed next week.
That assumes competence on the part of Boris Johnson and the Government. As we’ve seen, they were too slow locking down in March and September last year (as confirmed by his own chief special adviser, countless medical professionals and the medical data). This is an incompetent Government (its own Health Secretary had to resign after breaking laws he helped make). So to assume they’ve got everything right is just plain naive.

quaker4life wrote: Also I disagree with your suggestion that I am impatient, I have abided by the restrictions like millions of others have during the last 16 months but if there is no longer a justified cause in keeping them in place then they need to be lifted ASAP. And some of these scientists are quite frankly doom mongers and lockdown lovers who will always look at the worse case scenario and yes the government rhetoric has shifted to one of caution but regardless I believe many people would have exercised caution anyway and will continue to do so.

Also sadly regardless, people will die this is an unavoidable fact that tragically we are going to have to learn to live as we learn to live with the virus.
You’re using the same tactic as shildonlad. Calling scientists who you disagree with “doom-mongers”.

Given how he’s embarrassed himself in multiple threads, that’s not a great place for you to be.

As for deaths, there is a proven link between cases and deaths. Even with vaccines, more cases equals more deaths. Reduce cases and we have fewer deaths. I find it extraordinary anyone just writes off other human lives like you’re doing. Seems pretty inhuman if you ask me.

quaker4life wrote:
On the same token, you seemed to imply that with restrictions in place there was no disruption hence my comment above, I was referring the NLN season which did not finish and I cannot comment on the other 5 leagues as I was not following them throughout last season however I was following our situation quite closely.
Kindly point out where that happened. I did no such thing.

And you don’t need to have followed the Premier League closely. The season finished. That alone proves my point.

quaker4life wrote: I don't see how I re-wrote history or misrepresented the truth but if I'm sorry if that's how you have interpreted it, also yes cases did go do down but ultimately we did not get rid of the virus, and nor will we.
You tried to make out lockdown had no impact on disruption in matches. That’s demonstrably untrue. So there’s one example.

And another mistruth on your part - no one has claimed lockdown would get rid of the virus. That’s a straw man argument. But it did reduce cases to a level where there was less disruption. That’s factually correct.

So there’s two instances where you misinterpreted the truth and rewrote history.

quaker4life wrote:
DarloGramps wrote: Not so much a line drawn in the sand, more you burying your head in the sand. We’re at a point where Darlington cannot field a team because of Covid, yet you insist we plough regardless and increase cases even more.

You’re delusional and and the disruption we’re already seeing is proving this to be the case.
If I'm delusional then god knows what that makes Boris Johnson, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance?!

If now isn't a good time for you, when is? Next month? Next year? Whenever Darlo can field a team?
I’ve answered this question several times. Unlock when cases are reduced to a manageable level, rather than increasing exponentially as they are now. And in that time, complete the vaccination programme. Currently 20m are unjabbed and only half the population have received two jabs.

It’s weird how you ignore the answer and keep asking the same question. Suggests you find the answer inconvenient.

quaker4life wrote:
Once again, there will be disruption and cases will rise and as has been said above this will happen regardless of when restrictions are lifted and yet you want to delay it further even though it will not many any difference? Perhaps you're the one burying your head in the sand?
I always find when people make lame attempts at using my own words back at me, they know they’re struggling. It heartens me that you’re reduced to these tactics.

Any unlocking will increase cases, but with millions more double-jabbed and cases vastly reduced, the wave will not be as severe.
Whereas what will happen next week is there’ll be a a further increase in cases, on top of the exponential growth we’re already seeing.

To try and equate the two scenarios is false and incorrect. There’s a big difference between unlocking when there’s exponential growth, and unlocking when cases are at a low level.

It’s pretty embarrassing I need to explain that.
quaker4life wrote: We can do this over and over but we would just be flogging a dead horse, like it or not we will be proceeding on July 19th.
And come the autumn or winter, when cases are spiralling, or there’s a vaccine-busting variant, we’ll need to reimpose measures. Then it’ll be yourself and shildonlad playing hell about that too.
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by quaker4life » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am

Good lord, it's never ending with you isn't it?! Like the cycle of lockdowns we'll be having in years to come if certain people get their way.
DarloGramps wrote:That assumes competence on the part of Boris Johnson and the Government. As we’ve seen, they were too slow locking down in March and September last year (as confirmed by his own chief special adviser, countless medical professionals and the medical data). This is an incompetent Government (its own Health Secretary had to resign after breaking laws he helped make). So to assume they’ve got everything right is just plain naive.
Whether or not you believe the government are competent or not is totally subjective, mistakes have been made and those mistakes have been well documented but no country can claim to have had a totally polished response to this crisis - for example just this week the Dutch PM has apologised for opening too early.

Once again this is old ground and there's little sense going over it again.
DarloGramps wrote:You’re using the same tactic as shildonlad. Calling scientists who you disagree with “doom-mongers”.

Given how he’s embarrassed himself in multiple threads, that’s not a great place for you to be.

As for deaths, there is a proven link between cases and deaths. Even with vaccines, more cases equals more deaths. Reduce cases and we have fewer deaths. I find it extraordinary anyone just writes off other human lives like you’re doing. Seems pretty inhuman if you ask me.
This is not a tactic or an endorsement of comments made by others in this thread, which believe it or not was originally about a postponed pre-season friendly! However back on "topic", I do believe some of them are doom mongers and that is not solely on the basis that I disagree with them, I do believe some of them are intent on nothing more than promoting fear. It would seem in the grand scheme of things the opinions which matter most are those of Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance, and if they aligned themselves with the views of some others do you think they would stand by quietly and watch as the government proceeded to lift restrictions?

Also let me be absolutely clear on this I am in no way writing off human lives, as I've said before tragically it's a reality we're going to have to learn to accept as we learn to live with this virus. I don't want anybody to die, I'm sure none of us do but the fact is many have already and sadly many more will follow, it's an inescapable fact.
DarloGramps wrote:Kindly point out where that happened. I did no such thing.

And you don’t need to have followed the Premier League closely. The season finished. That alone proves my point.
Yep, and on both occasions we regained control with restrictions. Yet this time our response is to remove all restrictions, meaning the situation will get worse before it gets better.

Hope you’re looking forward to more disruption next season.
Upon reading your comment above for the first time I interpreted it as an implication that restrictions negated disruption, I believe I had already responded to you prior to this saying there would be disruption anyway.

Also I wasn't disputing the fact that the Premier League and others had managed to finish, I was pointing I could not pass comment any other League regardless as I had not been following them at the time.
DarloGramps wrote:You tried to make out lockdown had no impact on disruption in matches. That’s demonstrably untrue. So there’s one example.

And another mistruth on your part - no one has claimed lockdown would get rid of the virus. That’s a straw man argument. But it did reduce cases to a level where there was less disruption. That’s factually correct.

So there’s two instances where you misinterpreted the truth and rewrote history.
I believe there has been a misunderstanding here, I did not attempt at any point to make out lockdown had no impact when it came to disruption - my point was even with restrictions and lockdown disruption still occured it did not negate it entirely. So again I fail to see how I re-wrote history? And if it came off that way it was certainly not intentional.

Also regarding the point of lockdown not getting rid of the virus I never claimed anyone had said that? I was just stating what was already common knowledge so I have to question you once again where exactly did I misrepresent the truth? If this was a strawman argument surely I must have stated that you or someone else said that as an attempt to distort your argument? And finally I did not dispute the fact that lockdown reduced case numbers.
DarloGramps wrote:I always find when people make lame attempts at using my own words back at me, they know they’re struggling. It heartens me that you’re reduced to these tactics.

Any unlocking will increase cases, but with millions more double-jabbed and cases vastly reduced, the wave will not be as severe.
Whereas what will happen next week is there’ll be a a further increase in cases, on top of the exponential growth we’re already seeing.

To try and equate the two scenarios is false and incorrect. There’s a big difference between unlocking when there’s exponential growth, and unlocking when cases are at a low level.

It’s pretty embarrassing I need to explain that.
I am not employing any tactics, I can assure you I have no wish to play games with you, I have to be honest the fact you seem to be treating this as some kind of tactical battle is a little bizarre. As I pointed out to you before, Chris Whitty, who is infinitely more qualified to give an informed opinion on this matter than either of us has said already further delay will not make any difference.

The outcome ultimately will be the same regardless, which is the point you seem to either be missing or going to great pains to avoid.
DarloGramps wrote:And come the autumn or winter, when cases are spiralling, or there’s a vaccine-busting variant, we’ll need to reimpose measures. Then it’ll be yourself and shildonlad playing hell about that too.
Why are you insistent on bringing shildonlad into this?

I already said previously that situation could play out regardless of when you lift restrictions - but as yet it hasn't so for now this vaccine-busting variant of which you speak exists only in your head, lets hope it stays there and that this remains a slippery slope argument.

But if you do cough it up next time you're at Blackwell Meadows and it does spread, trust me as frustrated as I will be if the restrictions are reimposed, I will live with them and I cannot speak for others.

On a related note, with the knowledge restrictions are to be lifted next week, will you still be attending matches?
Last edited by quaker4life on Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:05 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by quaker4life » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:39 am

Double post.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:03 am

Borris johnson already delayed for 4 weeks to get more vacinated, how many more delays do folk expect and yes i agree theres too much fear mongering which seems to be ramping up now, they are quick to point out hotspots but fail to mention the severely reduced numbers of deaths and those in hospital. And whilst i dont agree with everything Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance say i would rather listen to them than countless other scientists crawling out the woodwork every day, a bit more realistic and close advisors to the government, not just some random scientist spouting off over zoom on the news with more fear mongering
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Old Git » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:59 am

onewayup wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:26 pm
I personally only know of one person who has contracted the virus, she is a care worker,
People like you old git need to think before you post,staying safe is a priority for everyone you are your own safety expert it's upto you how much you expose yourself ,for me I will continue to follow protol and stay safe, especially older people need to take extra care in being, staying safe.
You must live in an Ivory Tower if you only know one person who has had COVID.
Of course staying safe is everyone’s responsibility but the point is not everyone is running the same level of risk. You may be lucky and following the protocols may keep you safe but for someone with an underlying health problem they are likely to be at a much greater risk than the rest of us.
Not sure why you say I need to think before I post. Do really believe that simply following the protocols will guarantee you are protected ? If so you are very niave and selfish.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:12 am

Too right OldGit.

Onewayuo has simplified the situation to the extreme. He says follow the protocols and you'll be safe, but wow! If only the whole world had known that this time last year.

Onewayup may be very cautious and safe (I hope he is) but no matter how safe he, me and others may be there are still countless Covidiots, naysayers, thickos and dickheads roaming around who simply don't give a damn about themselves or anybody else.

Onewayup is quite simply wrong when he states his opinion about how you can negate the risk entirely if you follow the guidelines, for instance, I know someone who has been double vaccinated and has serious health issues. He lives with his wife only and recently both of them caught C19. They have been doing all they possibly can to stay safe, yet the virus found them.

I think Onewayup should think before HE posts, and also take my point that regardless of how safe you try to be, you can still catch C19 and to state anything else is 100% wrong.

In fact, thinking about it, if Onewayup was right, then Covid 19 could be eradicated completely within a couple of weeks and we would all live happily ever after forever.
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by loan_star » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:36 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:30 pm
loan_star wrote: Why should I name him? He’s not on here to defend himself. And put it this way he knows way more about this than you or I do. It’s highly arrogant of you to talk down a professional in his field because enough don’t agree with him, especially when you don’t even know him.
What you’ve just demonstrated is the appeal to authority fallacy. “He’s in a position of authority, therefore he knows more than you or I.”

Not necessarily, and actually that’s a dangerous thought process. It encourages complacency.

He will make mistakes like any human being. In this instance I believe he’s wrong and have explained why. Fundamentally, your doctor friend (if he exists) has misunderstood why restrictions were brought in. That’s pretty alarming for a medical professional to be getting that so very wrong.

And it’s unarguable that he’s got it wrong. Restrictions were brought in as a short term measure until the vaccines could provide longer term protection. For him to be talking about restrictions in the context of long term solutions is simply incorrect.

If you don’t want to question him because it makes you feel comfortable, be my guest. But I’m perfectly entitled to question any point of view put forward. It’s called critical thinking.

It’s like saying because Boris Johnson is Prime Minister we should accept what he says as gospel. That’s a plainly ridiculous way of thinking.

One final point. You yourself have rejected medical professionals’ opinions. In another thread you rejected any suggestion the final restriction removal on July 19th should be delayed. Hundreds of doctors have written to the Prime Minister saying actually next week’s unlocking is a mistake.

So why is it OK for you to reject hundreds of doctors’ opinions, but if I think one doctor is wrong, that’s “highly arrogant”? Please answer that question directly.
Meanwhile you appeal to authority that you agree with.
I didnt say I thought he was correct and doctors do make mistakes, thats why quite often they send someone for a second opinion.
However you have dismissed him out of hand without knowing why he believes that, along with other doctors the media choose to ignore, and also questioned his ability to do the job he spent years studying to do. That is the arrogance you are showing, just because you disagree with his view on the restrictions.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:56 am

Keep hearing that, whilst there are still 20 million unvaccinated we should not be lifting restrictions. If say 12 million of these will never take up the offer, or we get down to 1000 a day taking it up, how long should we continue for? There is a high chance their are going to be a fair few million who will not get vaccinated wandering the streets. Do we all curtail our lives for these?

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:20 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:56 am
Keep hearing that, whilst there are still 20 million unvaccinated we should not be lifting restrictions. If say 12 million of these will never take up the offer, or we get down to 1000 a day taking it up, how long should we continue for? There is a high chance their are going to be a fair few million who will not get vaccinated wandering the streets. Do we all curtail our lives for these?
Good point. If we waited until evert adult was vacinated restrictions would last forever. If someone refuses to get a vaccination for reasons other than on medical grounds then tough shyte if they get really ill or die with covid, cant blame the government, they have been offered. Some are conspiracy idiots who refuse to get it and some are just been auckward and dont like been told what to do. Sadly i know a couple who have refused it
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Old Git » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:11 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:20 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:56 am
Keep hearing that, whilst there are still 20 million unvaccinated we should not be lifting restrictions. If say 12 million of these will never take up the offer, or we get down to 1000 a day taking it up, how long should we continue for? There is a high chance their are going to be a fair few million who will not get vaccinated wandering the streets. Do we all curtail our lives for these?
Good point. If we waited until evert adult was vacinated restrictions would last forever. If someone refuses to get a vaccination for reasons other than on medical grounds then tough shyte if they get really ill or die with covid, cant blame the government, they have been offered. Some are conspiracy idiots who refuse to get it and some are just been auckward and dont like been told what to do. Sadly i know a couple who have refused it
Have to say I agree with you for once about the fools who refuse to get vaccinated. Like you I do know someone who has so far refused to get vaccinated and I have given up trying to persuade them. Don’t want to wish this illness on anyone but will not be sympathetic towards anybody who gets it having not bothered to get vaccinated.
Surely this is where Vaccine Passports should be used to prevent people accessing venues and services if they have not been vaccinated. It would encourage some of the idiots to get the jab purely out of self interest and protect the rest of us from those who refuse.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm

Actually, there's probably less than 10 Million haven't received at least one jab. If 4% of the adult population don't get it, which doesn't seem too unlikely, that's still over 3 million people. Is this an acceptable number to those most at risk, or would we still be wanting restrictions in place?

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:30 pm

Old Git wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:11 pm
shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:20 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:56 am
Keep hearing that, whilst there are still 20 million unvaccinated we should not be lifting restrictions. If say 12 million of these will never take up the offer, or we get down to 1000 a day taking it up, how long should we continue for? There is a high chance their are going to be a fair few million who will not get vaccinated wandering the streets. Do we all curtail our lives for these?
Good point. If we waited until evert adult was vacinated restrictions would last forever. If someone refuses to get a vaccination for reasons other than on medical grounds then tough shyte if they get really ill or die with covid, cant blame the government, they have been offered. Some are conspiracy idiots who refuse to get it and some are just been auckward and dont like been told what to do. Sadly i know a couple who have refused it
Have to say I agree with you for once about the fools who refuse to get vaccinated. Like you I do know someone who has so far refused to get vaccinated and I have given up trying to persuade them. Don’t want to wish this illness on anyone but will not be sympathetic towards anybody who gets it having not bothered to get vaccinated.
Surely this is where Vaccine Passports should be used to prevent people accessing venues and services if they have not been vaccinated. It would encourage some of the idiots to get the jab purely out of self interest and protect the rest of us from those who refuse.
Ive never been anti vacine, just sick of restrictions. you are warned of side effects, supposed you have to be to avoid any litigation, ive had tattoos so nowt too bad for me, but those i know who refuse it have refused it on stupid grounds. One said hes health my and in his 30s so should be ok, one knows said he cant be bothered and does not have time, eh they do vacines 7 days a week, could get one before, after or even during work. If vacine passports come in folk will winge like hell, saying it creates a two tier system etc with those not yet had a vacine but if they come say autum when everyone will have been offered one that wont be the case on the whole. Folk will probably just use them as a vehicle for another political bashing, if it keeps big events going im for them
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:09 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm
Actually, there's probably less than 10 Million haven't received at least one jab. If 4% of the adult population don't get it, which doesn't seem too unlikely, that's still over 3 million people. Is this an acceptable number to those most at risk, or would we still be wanting restrictions in place?
Rough figures but we have approx. 53m adults and 46m currently have been vaccinated, we will be lucky to get another 2m vaccinated, leaving 5m unvaccinated. Then 15m under 18's who are non vaccinated, so a pot of around 20m unvaccinated.

This will be the challenge when we run out of people to vaccinate, Israel has this challenge, USA have this challenge and so will everyone.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by darlogav » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:14 pm

Mods - Can this be moved to off topic? I was thinking there might have been updates on friendlies on this thread but appears to be a massive debate about lockdown restrictions and government competence...

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:14 pm

loan_star wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:36 am

Meanwhile you appeal to authority that you agree with.
I didnt say I thought he was correct and doctors do make mistakes, thats why quite often they send someone for a second opinion.
However you have dismissed him out of hand without knowing why he believes that, along with other doctors the media choose to ignore, and also questioned his ability to do the job he spent years studying to do. That is the arrogance you are showing, just because you disagree with his view on the restrictions.
Evidently you don't understand what an appeal to authority is. It's perfectly fine to refer to medical professionals in any argument you make. In fact it would be pretty welcome to do so, and many have done so in this thread. But you have to examine what they say, quote their statistics or arguments. What you've done is say his opinion matters more than other people's purely because he is a doctor. Well no, because you have to examine what they say.

Harold Shipman was a medical professional, yet we don't exactly take his word as being gospel truth now (and before you get outraged, I'm not comparing your friend to Shipman. I'm pointing out why "He's a medical professional, he knows more than you" is a weak and contemptible way of arguing). If Chris Whitty said "Cut your left ear off and you'd be free of Covid", none us of would unquestioningly take a carving knife to our ears now, would we? We'd question it, and that's all I've done here.

So there's a couple of fair things for me to ask when considering your friend's view. What are his relevant expertise? Medicine is a wide field with different specialisms. Is he a leading virologist? In which case his views on Covid restrictions would be pretty influential and would make me listen to him. If he was a proctologist, then his views would be less relevant in this particular debate. However you refuse to say, so all I can do is go off what you've said.

Then I need to look at the logic of what he says. I've explained this in previous posts, but you claimed his point was "Restrictions are pointless because they have little long term effect". However, restrictions weren't a long term measure. They were a short term measure until the vaccines were able to provide longer term protection. It's like me saying: "Alarm clocks are pointless because you can't unblock toilets with them." Well, that's not their function, in the same way restrictions aren't intended to provide long-term Covid protection. That's why I'm questioning and rejecting his viewpoint.

I've considered his view and disagree with it. I've explained why and backed myself up. There's nothing arrogant about that, however much you repeat it. I just don't agree with him and find it alarming a medical professional apparently doesn't understand the purpose of restrictions. And with respect, you've not answered a single point I've raised. You won't explain why he thinks this, or explain what his specific expertise are. The fact you're being coy on this leads me to suspect you've made up aspects of this story.

Moreover, you've been a coward and dodged the question of why I'm arrogant for rejecting one doctor's view, but you are seemingly entitled to reject the view of hundreds of doctors. That feels hypocritical to me.
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by onewayup » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:40 pm

Where is it that I said following protocols will get you 100% protection. You misread and put your own spin on what I said basically do what you have to to stay safe following protocols helps enormously..
I don't lie I do only know of one covid infected person. I don't live in an ivory tower but do live with a very vulnerable person. .who means the world to me and protecting them is my objective at all costs.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:08 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm
Actually, there's probably less than 10 Million haven't received at least one jab. If 4% of the adult population don't get it, which doesn't seem too unlikely, that's still over 3 million people. Is this an acceptable number to those most at risk, or would we still be wanting restrictions in place?
As 1 of those who had no chance of survival if I caught Covid I have had both jabs,(quite a while ago now), so I am as protected as I am ever going to be.
Am I still "worried"? Only that I may pass it on to my daughter or grandson who are both at risk due to health problems. As for myself, I have a reasonable chance now, and at over 70, how long a life span have I honestly got anyway? Who the hell wants to live forever?
I DO like the idea of a passport to prove you have had the jabs. As has been said, it just may get some of the selfish brigade to join the club !!

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by shildonlad » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:00 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:08 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm
Actually, there's probably less than 10 Million haven't received at least one jab. If 4% of the adult population don't get it, which doesn't seem too unlikely, that's still over 3 million people. Is this an acceptable number to those most at risk, or would we still be wanting restrictions in place?
As 1 of those who had no chance of survival if I caught Covid I have had both jabs,(quite a while ago now), so I am as protected as I am ever going to be.
Am I still "worried"? Only that I may pass it on to my daughter or grandson who are both at risk due to health problems. As for myself, I have a reasonable chance now, and at over 70, how long a life span have I honestly got anyway? Who the hell wants to live forever?
I DO like the idea of a passport to prove you have had the jabs. As has been said, it just may get some of the selfish brigade to join the club !!
Folk get asked for id in nightclubs so whats the hassle in producing a driveing licence sized plastic card to say you have had both vacines to security, biggest issue i see is political backlash saying the government is controlling folk, its turning into a dictatorship etc
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:14 pm

onewayup wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:40 pm
Where is it that I said following protocols will get you 100% protection. You misread and put your own spin on what I said basically do what you have to to stay safe following protocols helps enormously..
I don't lie I do only know of one covid infected person. I don't live in an ivory tower but do live with a very vulnerable person. .who means the world to me and protecting them is my objective at all costs.

THIS IS WHAT YOU WROTE FURTHER BACK.........

onewayup wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:55 pm
It doesn't matter how, who,what, as long as you follow the correct protocols and use common sense, you will be safe, it's in everyone's own interests to do what is necessary to stay safe,
One is ones own safety expert,
Stay safe everyone, you control your own destiny.

I HAVE TAKEN THE LIBERTY TO CHANGE IT TO SOMETHING THAT I FEEL IS ACCEPTABLE - AND SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE MEANT? .......

onewayup's quote edited by TOFC: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:55 pm
It doesn't matter how, who,what, as long as you follow the correct protocols and use common sense, hopefully you should be reasonably be safe, it's in everyone's own interests to do what is necessary to stay safe,
One is ones own safety expert,
Stay safe everyone, to a certain degree you control your own destiny.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:44 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
Good lord, it's never ending with you isn't it?! Like the cycle of lockdowns we'll be having in years to come if certain people get their way.
Could say the same about you. You are after all replying to me and posing questions. And subsequently complaining when I respond. That’s a bit dumb on your part – to ask questions and then whinge about my replying. If you don’t want me to reply, don’t keep replying yourself. It takes two to tango and all that…..
Oh and I’ve not argued in favour of lockdown. But you knew that already.
quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
Whether or not you believe the government are competent or not is totally subjective, mistakes have been made and those mistakes have been well documented but no country can claim to have had a totally polished response to this crisis - for example just this week the Dutch PM has apologised for opening too early.
Glad you’ve brought that up. 500% increase after removing all restrictions. Almost as if unlocking too soon, during a wave of exponentially increasing cases, fuelled by the highly transmissible Delta variant is a mistake.
Already hospitals in the North East are reporting a sharp increase in admissions (see North Tees hospital).
But that’s all inconvenient to you, so you’ll ignore it.

quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
I believe there has been a misunderstanding here, I did not attempt at any point to make out lockdown had no impact when it came to disruption…..
Erm, yes you did. I’ve quoted it in my above post.
quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
My point was even with restrictions and lockdown disruption still occured it did not negate it entirely. So again I fail to see how I re-wrote history? And if it came off that way it was certainly not intentional. Also regarding the point of lockdown not getting rid of the virus I never claimed anyone had said that? I was just stating what was already common knowledge so I have to question you once again where exactly did I misrepresent the truth? If this was a strawman argument surely I must have stated that you or someone else said that as an attempt to distort your argument? And finally I did not dispute the fact that lockdown reduced case numbers.
In the context of the discussion we’re having, saying “ultimately we did not get rid of the virus”, is an attempt at undermining the argument in favour of locking down in January. As if it to say: “Lockdown didn’t eliminate cases or prevent disruption, therefore was ineffective.” You’ve corrected yourself now, but you wouldn’t have done if you hadn’t been challenged.

quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
I am not employing any tactics, I can assure you I have no wish to play games with you, I have to be honest the fact you seem to be treating this as some kind of tactical battle is a little bizarre. As I pointed out to you before, Chris Whitty, who is infinitely more qualified to give an informed opinion on this matter than either of us has said already further delay will not make any difference.
The outcome ultimately will be the same regardless, which is the point you seem to either be missing or going to great pains to avoid.
We’re having an argument, a discussion. Of course you use tactics to try and prove your point. We do that in any disagreement. The way we put things across in a debate is all tactical. You maybe don’t realise, but it’s there.
Anyway, your paraphrasing of Chris Whitty’s is a pretty simplistic account of what he said. He didn’t say further delay wouldn’t make any difference. He also said: “The slower we take it, the fewer people will have Covid, the smaller the peak will be, and the smaller the number of people who go into hospital and die. So, going very slowly through this step is really essential.”
The trouble is, when the Government have already told people there are no restrictions, how do you enforce a slow approach? You can’t. So it’s all well and good him saying “take it slow”, but how do you do that? Right now I’d be more comfortable if people kept two metres from me. Yet legally there’s nothing to stop anyone walking in my personal space, as of Monday. Covid will spread further and faster, and it’s endorsed by the Government.
Neither he, Patrick Vallance or the Prime Minister have explained that, which is leading to confusion and, as far as I can see, will cause a big increase, on top of an already increasing number of cases and hospitalisations.

Next week’s removal of restrictions will go ahead, but I believe it’s a reckless, grave mistake that will cost lives, increase hospitalisations and ultimately do more harm than good.
And I’m perfectly entitled to state that. Your implication seems to be “This conversation isn’t going to change anything, so you might as well stop posting”, which is a feeble attempt at getting me to shut up.
I don’t seriously believe Chris Whitty would think unlocking with 40k cases and rising is better than unlocking at 1k and dropping.
quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
Why are you insistent on bringing shildonlad into this?
Pretty simple. You and him have similar views on next week’s restrictions. And he’s proven himself to be utterly moronic, so I’m more likely to win over other people by attaching your arguments to his. And you’re making it pretty easy to be fair.
quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
I already said previously that situation could play out regardless of when you lift restrictions - but as yet it hasn't so for now this vaccine-busting variant of which you speak exists only in your head, lets hope it stays there and that this remains a slippery slope argument.
You might want to read some of the medical studies into the Delta variant, the South African variant and the variant sweeping Peru right now. All of which indicate these variants are better at dodging vaccines.
For example, have a read of this study into the Pfizer variant’s effectiveness against the Delta variant. Only 10% effectiveness if single-jabbed (which is currently half the UK population). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586- ... t=deeplink
You might want to delude yourself into pretending it’s not an issue. But you’re only making yourself look a fool….

quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
But if you do cough it up next time you're at Blackwell Meadows and it does spread, trust me as frustrated as I will be if the restrictions are reimposed, I will live with them and I cannot speak for others.
There’s an obvious answer to this. Do it properly when cases are lower and more people are vaccinated, and we won’t need to reimpose restrictions.

quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
On a related note, with the knowledge restrictions are to be lifted next week, will you still be attending matches?
Probably not. With the job I do, I can't afford to risk catching Covid and having to isolate. And while there's high levels of Covid in circulation, it’ll be too much of a risk to be heading into big crowds.
If the club (or indeed any club) were to offer some areas of the ground where fans could socially distance, or any other measures I’d be more inclined to consider it.
Once this third wave has reduced and the amount of Covid in circulation is lower, then I’d be more comfortable with going back.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by loan_star » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:06 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:14 pm
And with respect, you've not answered a single point I've raised. You won't explain why he thinks this, or explain what his specific expertise are. The fact you're being coy on this leads me to suspect you've made up aspects of this story.

Moreover, you've been a coward and dodged the question of why I'm arrogant for rejecting one doctor's view, but you are seemingly entitled to reject the view of hundreds of doctors. That feels hypocritical to me.
Has it not occurred to you that I may not have pursued the conversation with him to find out why he thinks that way? As I said earlier, doctors can quite often have different opinions and this one obviously does too. Is that too difficult for you to comprehend?
Yes I think the lockdowns should end as planned, as do many people. Otherwise the next variant, which will come just as flu variants come along, will have the same outcome with people saying we should be restricted in what we do still.
As for calling people cowards, pot calling kettle there I think.
Oh and by the way, using a murderer as an example of why not all doctors should be trusted is as good as comparing my friend to a murderer, even though you claim this isn’t the case. I expect better, even from you.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by onewayup » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:19 pm

Just as I said your your own spin on it .
Enough said.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by quaker4life » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:02 pm

DarloGramps wrote: Could say the same about you. You are after all replying to me and posing questions. And subsequently complaining when I respond. That’s a bit dumb on your part – to ask questions and then whinge about my replying. If you don’t want me to reply, don’t keep replying yourself. It takes two to tango and all that…..
Oh and I’ve not argued in favour of lockdown. But you knew that already.
I wasn't complaining.
DarloGramps wrote: Glad you’ve brought that up. 500% increase after removing all restrictions. Almost as if unlocking too soon, during a wave of exponentially increasing cases, fuelled by the highly transmissible Delta variant is a mistake.
Already hospitals in the North East are reporting a sharp increase in admissions (see North Tees hospital).
But that’s all inconvenient to you, so you’ll ignore it.
It's not an inconvenience to me, it is an inevitability and I have never disputed that it would lead to increased hospital admissions.
quaker4life wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am
I believe there has been a misunderstanding here, I did not attempt at any point to make out lockdown had no impact when it came to disruption…..
DarloGramps wrote: Erm, yes you did. I’ve quoted it in my above post.
Again, it was not my intention.
DarloGramps wrote:In the context of the discussion we’re having, saying “ultimately we did not get rid of the virus”, is an attempt at undermining the argument in favour of locking down in January. As if it to say: “Lockdown didn’t eliminate cases or prevent disruption, therefore was ineffective.” You’ve corrected yourself now, but you wouldn’t have done if you hadn’t been challenged.
It was not a deliberate attempt to undermine the argument, I said it because there are some who hold on to this nonsensical notion of Zero Covid and I never suggested that you were one of them.
DarloGramps wrote:We’re having an argument, a discussion. Of course you use tactics to try and prove your point. We do that in any disagreement. The way we put things across in a debate is all tactical. You maybe don’t realise, but it’s there.
Anyway, your paraphrasing of Chris Whitty’s is a pretty simplistic account of what he said. He didn’t say further delay wouldn’t make any difference. He also said: “The slower we take it, the fewer people will have Covid, the smaller the peak will be, and the smaller the number of people who go into hospital and die. So, going very slowly through this step is really essential.”
The trouble is, when the Government have already told people there are no restrictions, how do you enforce a slow approach? You can’t. So it’s all well and good him saying “take it slow”, but how do you do that? Right now I’d be more comfortable if people kept two metres from me. Yet legally there’s nothing to stop anyone walking in my personal space, as of Monday. Covid will spread further and faster, and it’s endorsed by the Government.
Neither he, Patrick Vallance or the Prime Minister have explained that, which is leading to confusion and, as far as I can see, will cause a big increase, on top of an already increasing number of cases and hospitalisations.
I was highly certain I heard him say words to the effect of that although the delay was necessary and was the right thing to do first time round it now won't make any difference. Regardless the point was that further delay will not make any difference as the outcome will ultimately be the same and as we can see it's proving to be true as there has been a substantial increase in cases and hospitalizations are starting to creep up once again.

The issue of mixed messaging and confusion has been prevalent throughout the pandemic, no more so when they introduced that ludicrous tier system last year, they seemed to make it up as they went along. You didn't need to be a scientist to see that it wouldn't work, even Chris Whitty was vocal in his opinion that "tier 3" restrictions would not be enough to prevent the spread of the virus. From an economic perspective it made sense but as a means of controlling the spread of the virus it was totally ineffective.

The "taking it slow" comment is open to interpretation but I take it to mean that we should not go wild or, as the PM puts it, be "demob happy".
DarloGramps wrote:Next week’s removal of restrictions will go ahead, but I believe it’s a reckless, grave mistake that will cost lives, increase hospitalisations and ultimately do more harm than good.
And I’m perfectly entitled to state that. Your implication seems to be “This conversation isn’t going to change anything, so you might as well stop posting”, which is a feeble attempt at getting me to shut up.
I don’t seriously believe Chris Whitty would think unlocking with 40k cases and rising is better than unlocking at 1k and dropping.
Yes you are perfectly entitled to state that and I wasn't trying to get you to shut up, if you want someone to be quiet continuing to engage them surely defeats the object?!
Why are you insistent on bringing shildonlad into this?
DarloGramps wrote:Pretty simple. You and him have similar views on next week’s restrictions. And he’s proven himself to be utterly moronic, so I’m more likely to win over other people by attaching your arguments to his. And you’re making it pretty easy to be fair.
I have to admit I have not been paying much attention what shildonlad has been posting as it was not him who I was engaged in conversation with however I have already said that nothing I've stated is an endorsement of the views of others. I must say this fine example of Ad Hominem is somewhat hypocritical even if was intended as a ploy, you clearly believe shildonlad to be moronic and you have attempted to make me appear moronic also by association to play down my argument.

As far as I'm concerned though I am not trying to win people over or persuade anyone to come round to my way of thinking, to me this is just an exchange of thoughts and opinions and nothing else.
DarloGramps wrote:You might want to read some of the medical studies into the Delta variant, the South African variant and the variant sweeping Peru right now. All of which indicate these variants are better at dodging vaccines.
For example, have a read of this study into the Pfizer variant’s effectiveness against the Delta variant. Only 10% effectiveness if single-jabbed (which is currently half the UK population). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586- ... t=deeplink
You might want to delude yourself into pretending it’s not an issue. But you’re only making yourself look a fool….
Thank you for the reading material and I will look at it later, it is too late at night for me to attempt to pour over medical text!

Also I have never disputed the fact it is an issue.
DarloGramps wrote:Probably not. With the job I do, I can't afford to risk catching Covid and having to isolate. And while there's high levels of Covid in circulation, it’ll be too much of a risk to be heading into big crowds.
If the club (or indeed any club) were to offer some areas of the ground where fans could socially distance, or any other measures I’d be more inclined to consider it.
Once this third wave has reduced and the amount of Covid in circulation is lower, then I’d be more comfortable with going back.
Fair enough, your apparent hubris regarding this situation now makes more sense.

For me personally nothing will change drastically other than I will be more selective as to where and when I wear a mask, for example I will certainly not be wearing one at the Football but I will continue to carry one with me incase any premises request that people wear them and I've seen a couple of places state already that they will do so.

To be honest I don't see a major seismic shift in people's behavior occuring as there seems to be a widespread consensus amongst people that they will continue to exercise caution by continuing to wear masks and socially distancing where possible.

Of course there are those who will throw caution to the wind and go mad but I would think the majority of them are those who were ignoring the restrictions to begin with.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by EDJOHNS » Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:42 am

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:00 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:08 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm
Actually, there's probably less than 10 Million haven't received at least one jab. If 4% of the adult population don't get it, which doesn't seem too unlikely, that's still over 3 million people. Is this an acceptable number to those most at risk, or would we still be wanting restrictions in place?
As 1 of those who had no chance of survival if I caught Covid I have had both jabs,(quite a while ago now), so I am as protected as I am ever going to be.
Am I still "worried"? Only that I may pass it on to my daughter or grandson who are both at risk due to health problems. As for myself, I have a reasonable chance now, and at over 70, how long a life span have I honestly got anyway? Who the hell wants to live forever?
I DO like the idea of a passport to prove you have had the jabs. As has been said, it just may get some of the selfish brigade to join the club !!
Folk get asked for id in nightclubs so whats the hassle in producing a driveing licence sized plastic card to say you have had both vacines to security, biggest issue i see is political backlash saying the government is controlling folk, its turning into a dictatorship etc
There is no need to "produce" a pass. You got a card when you had the jab saying the date and what vaccine you had.
On my second 1 it also gives the date of the first. Just laminate that and keep it.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by bga » Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:13 am

EDJOHNS wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:42 am
shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:00 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:08 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm
Actually, there's probably less than 10 Million haven't received at least one jab. If 4% of the adult population don't get it, which doesn't seem too unlikely, that's still over 3 million people. Is this an acceptable number to those most at risk, or would we still be wanting restrictions in place?
As 1 of those who had no chance of survival if I caught Covid I have had both jabs,(quite a while ago now), so I am as protected as I am ever going to be.
Am I still "worried"? Only that I may pass it on to my daughter or grandson who are both at risk due to health problems. As for myself, I have a reasonable chance now, and at over 70, how long a life span have I honestly got anyway? Who the hell wants to live forever?
I DO like the idea of a passport to prove you have had the jabs. As has been said, it just may get some of the selfish brigade to join the club !!
Folk get asked for id in nightclubs so whats the hassle in producing a driveing licence sized plastic card to say you have had both vacines to security, biggest issue i see is political backlash saying the government is controlling folk, its turning into a dictatorship etc
There is no need to "produce" a pass. You got a card when you had the jab saying the date and what vaccine you had.
On my second 1 it also gives the date of the first. Just laminate that and keep it.
That will not work. Anyone could use anyone's card. Want to borrow mine?

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Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:13 am

loan_star wrote: Has it not occurred to you that I may not have pursued the conversation with him to find out why he thinks that way? As I said earlier, doctors can quite often have different opinions and this one obviously does too. Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? .
Again, while you withhold information about him, it leads me to doubt this conversation even took place.
For instance, why won’t you tell anyone what his specialism is? Either you don’t know, or it isn’t in the appropriate fields for this pandemic. If he was a virologist or immunologist, you’d be shouting that from the rooftops.

However, in the same way your “doctor friend” is allowed a different opinion, I am also allowed a different opinion to your doctor. I’ve considered his views and explained my reasoning as to why I disagree and why I think it’s flawed.

Your evasive, defensive reaction to my considered response makes you a bit of a snowflake to be honest. It makes me think you’re hiding something because you know it undermines you.
loan_star wrote: As for calling people cowards, pot calling kettle there I think.
Can you explain with an example?

You’ve twice now dodged the question as to why I’m arrogant for disagreeing with one doctor, but you’re not arrogant when you dismiss hundreds of doctors’ opinions.

That suggests you don’t want to admit your own hypocrisy, which makes you a coward.

You also won’t answer any questions on your friend’s specialism or his opinion. That reinforces the same point.

So I’ve explained my example. Can you explain your criticism with one?
loan_star wrote: Oh and by the way, using a murderer as an example of why not all doctors should be trusted is as good as comparing my friend to a murderer, even though you claim this isn’t the case. I expect better, even from you.
More snowflake behaviour from a hardcore GB News-type. It is interesting how much you all like to play the victim.

It’s very clear I used Shipman as an example as to why you can’t say: “He’s a doctor, his opinion counts more.” Granted it was an extreme example but it gets the point across. I was attacking your argument, nothing else.

At no point did I say your friend was like Shipman, and it’s bad faith from you to try and claim otherwise.

All this says to me is you’re struggling with your argument so are resorting to increasingly ludicrous distortions of mine to distract from the point.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by loan_star » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:28 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:13 am
loan_star wrote: Has it not occurred to you that I may not have pursued the conversation with him to find out why he thinks that way? As I said earlier, doctors can quite often have different opinions and this one obviously does too. Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? .
Again, while you withhold information about him, it leads me to doubt this conversation even took place.
For instance, why won’t you tell anyone what his specialism is? Either you don’t know, or it isn’t in the appropriate fields for this pandemic. If he was a virologist or immunologist, you’d be shouting that from the rooftops.

However, in the same way your “doctor friend” is allowed a different opinion, I am also allowed a different opinion to your doctor. I’ve considered his views and explained my reasoning as to why I disagree and why I think it’s flawed.

Your evasive, defensive reaction to my considered response makes you a bit of a snowflake to be honest. It makes me think you’re hiding something because you know it undermines you.
loan_star wrote: As for calling people cowards, pot calling kettle there I think.
Can you explain with an example?

You’ve twice now dodged the question as to why I’m arrogant for disagreeing with one doctor, but you’re not arrogant when you dismiss hundreds of doctors’ opinions.

That suggests you don’t want to admit your own hypocrisy, which makes you a coward.

You also won’t answer any questions on your friend’s specialism or his opinion. That reinforces the same point.

So I’ve explained my example. Can you explain your criticism with one?
loan_star wrote: Oh and by the way, using a murderer as an example of why not all doctors should be trusted is as good as comparing my friend to a murderer, even though you claim this isn’t the case. I expect better, even from you.
More snowflake behaviour from a hardcore GB News-type. It is interesting how much you all like to play the victim.

It’s very clear I used Shipman as an example as to why you can’t say: “He’s a doctor, his opinion counts more.” Granted it was an extreme example but it gets the point across. I was attacking your argument, nothing else.

At no point did I say your friend was like Shipman, and it’s bad faith from you to try and claim otherwise.

All this says to me is you’re struggling with your argument so are resorting to increasingly ludicrous distortions of mine to distract from the point.
You are a coward every day on here. You try and provoke arguments, talking down to people who you don't agree with whilst hiding behind a user name, never willing to say who you are, yet you demand information such as name and specialty of the doctor who I am friends with. Tough s*** if you don't believe me. You know who I am so come down to where I play cricket this saturday afternoon and meet the doctor face to face and tell him yourself why you think he is wrong, he'll be there and no doubt only too glad to explain his point of view better than I can. You can also tell him you have him in the same bracket as a murderer. However you are a coward who wouldn't dare do that, aren't you!

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by EDJOHNS » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:32 pm

bga wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:13 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:42 am
shildonlad wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:00 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:08 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm
Actually, there's probably less than 10 Million haven't received at least one jab. If 4% of the adult population don't get it, which doesn't seem too unlikely, that's still over 3 million people. Is this an acceptable number to those most at risk, or would we still be wanting restrictions in place?
As 1 of those who had no chance of survival if I caught Covid I have had both jabs,(quite a while ago now), so I am as protected as I am ever going to be.
Am I still "worried"? Only that I may pass it on to my daughter or grandson who are both at risk due to health problems. As for myself, I have a reasonable chance now, and at over 70, how long a life span have I honestly got anyway? Who the hell wants to live forever?
I DO like the idea of a passport to prove you have had the jabs. As has been said, it just may get some of the selfish brigade to join the club !!
Folk get asked for id in nightclubs so whats the hassle in producing a driveing licence sized plastic card to say you have had both vacines to security, biggest issue i see is political backlash saying the government is controlling folk, its turning into a dictatorship etc
There is no need to "produce" a pass. You got a card when you had the jab saying the date and what vaccine you had.
On my second 1 it also gives the date of the first. Just laminate that and keep it.
That will not work. Anyone could use anyone's card. Want to borrow mine?
Have to give you that 1. I obviously don't think deviously enough.

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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:38 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:28 am
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:13 am
loan_star wrote: Has it not occurred to you that I may not have pursued the conversation with him to find out why he thinks that way? As I said earlier, doctors can quite often have different opinions and this one obviously does too. Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? .
Again, while you withhold information about him, it leads me to doubt this conversation even took place.
For instance, why won’t you tell anyone what his specialism is? Either you don’t know, or it isn’t in the appropriate fields for this pandemic. If he was a virologist or immunologist, you’d be shouting that from the rooftops.

However, in the same way your “doctor friend” is allowed a different opinion, I am also allowed a different opinion to your doctor. I’ve considered his views and explained my reasoning as to why I disagree and why I think it’s flawed.

Your evasive, defensive reaction to my considered response makes you a bit of a snowflake to be honest. It makes me think you’re hiding something because you know it undermines you.
loan_star wrote: As for calling people cowards, pot calling kettle there I think.
Can you explain with an example?

You’ve twice now dodged the question as to why I’m arrogant for disagreeing with one doctor, but you’re not arrogant when you dismiss hundreds of doctors’ opinions.

That suggests you don’t want to admit your own hypocrisy, which makes you a coward.

You also won’t answer any questions on your friend’s specialism or his opinion. That reinforces the same point.

So I’ve explained my example. Can you explain your criticism with one?
loan_star wrote: Oh and by the way, using a murderer as an example of why not all doctors should be trusted is as good as comparing my friend to a murderer, even though you claim this isn’t the case. I expect better, even from you.
More snowflake behaviour from a hardcore GB News-type. It is interesting how much you all like to play the victim.

It’s very clear I used Shipman as an example as to why you can’t say: “He’s a doctor, his opinion counts more.” Granted it was an extreme example but it gets the point across. I was attacking your argument, nothing else.

At no point did I say your friend was like Shipman, and it’s bad faith from you to try and claim otherwise.

All this says to me is you’re struggling with your argument so are resorting to increasingly ludicrous distortions of mine to distract from the point.
You are a coward every day on here. You try and provoke arguments, talking down to people who you don't agree with whilst hiding behind a user name, never willing to say who you are, yet you demand information such as name and specialty of the doctor who I am friends with. Tough s*** if you don't believe me. You know who I am so come down to where I play cricket this saturday afternoon and meet the doctor face to face and tell him yourself why you think he is wrong, he'll be there and no doubt only too glad to explain his point of view better than I can. You can also tell him you have him in the same bracket as a murderer. However you are a coward who wouldn't dare do that, aren't you!
Incoming.

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loan_star
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Re: Darlington V Tadcaster Albion - preseason friendly

Post by loan_star » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:50 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:38 pm

Incoming.
:lol:

I could add that he’s also a hypocrite since he berates people for name calling yet has no problem doing it himself. It’s the last resort of someone who’s lost the argument according to him.....

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