Southport...

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Wiseacre
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Re: Southport...

Post by Wiseacre » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:51 am

Welcome Heaton Out. I can't see much wrong with your grammar or your views. As I said earlier I like AA and really enjoyed his managing our cup runs, but he's got a very difficult job and maybe he's worn out - what about some kind of sabbatical with Holloway taking the reins? It could be good for both of them. I'd be amazed if we made the play-offs this season so I'll try to realistic (and not whinge) it's just that the explanations (excuses?) for shocking outcomes like Tuesday nights are wearing thin - Ellis is a good player but he's not Graeme Souness, lets not expect one guy to make too much difference. Charman will be missed but our other front runners should step up. There just seems to me to be something awry with the team and AA's candour and bollocking's are not making it better. Also, when are we going to see Nelson at the helm - we are in danger of becoming a troubled ship.
It could be worse though - I remember the dog days of Archie Heaton. We're definitely in a better place now, even out of the league.

PierremontQuaker03
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Re: Southport...

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:10 pm

Just watched the highlights, that was a bad watch. All 3 goals were terrible, all extremely soft.

The penalty decision was an absolute joke, the guy did a swan dive I actually laughed when I saw it in normal speed. Two yellows would have been sufficient from the ref for both players, but the ref passed all responsibility over to the linesman, when the ref had a better view of the incident.

It is fairly clear the team needs to change for Saturday, there are a few regulars that need dropping, maybe they have become stale, but lets get some players in on loan or free agents to give them a chance.

Peace out.
“If you can't hit a driver, don't.”
Greg Norman

al_quaker
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Re: Southport...

Post by al_quaker » Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:14 pm

divas wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:28 am
Unfortunately we’ve lost any sort of momentum. Gray got us to the play offs purely on the back of the steam we’d built up in previous seasons. The season after was a similar story to what we have now.

More had to be changed in the summer than Alun would have liked and any team bringing in 10 or so new players will struggle initially. No matter how good the recruitment is you’re not going to get it all right so it needs to be refined over time. We effectively went back to square one.

The biggest worry for me is Alun’s demeanour since the start of the season, he seems to be carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and I’m sure that’s having an effect on the players. He’ll know the recruitment wasn’t what he wanted it to be but at some stage you’ve got to draw a line under it and make the best of what you have
This. Hopefully something clicks soon to generate a spark, for everyone's sake.

The 'we need investment' calls come out any time there is a bad run, but it's just wishful thinking. If a Darlo fan won euromillions, I'm sure we'd all happily take millions getting thrown in as gifts while still maintaining fan control, but it's just not going to happen. I might be wrong, but the only person who got close enough to warrant being named publicly was....Raj Singh.

So, all we can do is try and grow sustainably. I used to be of the "we must get back to the football league" mindset, but if this is our level then so be it. Being a mid table 6th tier team isn't particularly exciting, but eventually all clubs reach a level where they end up as a midtable team at best. There will still be good moments which come along, and our budget is competitve enough that one season everything will click, with perfect recruitment, and we will be in contention for promotion. All we can try and do is try and continue to build sustainably. Rather that than boom and bust, which is pretty much what landed us here in the first place.

A ground where you can get a decent view of the game is all I ask for :lol:

Heaton out
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Re: Southport...

Post by Heaton out » Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:37 pm

Wiseacre wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:51 am
Welcome Heaton Out. I can't see much wrong with your grammar or your views. As I said earlier I like AA and really enjoyed his managing our cup runs, but he's got a very difficult job and maybe he's worn out - what about some kind of sabbatical with Holloway taking the reins? It could be good for both of them. I'd be amazed if we made the play-offs this season so I'll try to realistic (and not whinge) it's just that the explanations (excuses?) for shocking outcomes like Tuesday nights are wearing thin - Ellis is a good player but he's not Graeme Souness, lets not expect one guy to make too much difference. Charman will be missed but our other front runners should step up. There just seems to me to be something awry with the team and AA's candour and bollocking's are not making it better. Also, when are we going to see Nelson at the helm - we are in danger of becoming a troubled ship.
It could be worse though - I remember the dog days of Archie Heaton. We're definitely in a better place now, even out of the league.
Thanks for welcome Wiseacre, we are in a better place you are correct & I too also like AA but it just feels like for some reason certain players don't seems as motivated, maybe as you say he is mentally worn out.

Yarblockos
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Re: Southport...

Post by Yarblockos » Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:41 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:14 pm
This. Hopefully something clicks soon to generate a spark, for everyone's sake.

The 'we need investment' calls come out any time there is a bad run, but it's just wishful thinking. If a Darlo fan won euromillions, I'm sure we'd all happily take millions getting thrown in as gifts while still maintaining fan control, but it's just not going to happen. I might be wrong, but the only person who got close enough to warrant being named publicly was....Raj Singh.

So, all we can do is try and grow sustainably. I used to be of the "we must get back to the football league" mindset, but if this is our level then so be it. Being a mid table 6th tier team isn't particularly exciting, but eventually all clubs reach a level where they end up as a midtable team at best. There will still be good moments which come along, and our budget is competitve enough that one season everything will click, with perfect recruitment, and we will be in contention for promotion. All we can try and do is try and continue to build sustainably. Rather that than boom and bust, which is pretty much what landed us here in the first place.

A ground where you can get a decent view of the game is all I ask for :lol:
Yep, I'd like a ground with a decent view too.

I don't think its possible to say we have reached our level. Is there really any team who are always mid-table, every year? Most clubs go up and down over the years, its about trying to do better and plenty of small sides are punching above their weight.

I'm not sure what problems lie with AA and which ones lie elsewhere. If you take out the cup runs our league form has been poor/below average throughout AA's reign and defensvely we've always been suspect. Summer recruitment was shocking, I'm starting to think AA can't recognise a good defender to save his life. But to be honest, the summer recruitment was so poor I'm actually relatively pleased at how well we are doing, I was expecting a relgation fight.

LoidLucan
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Re: Southport...

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:09 pm

divas wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:28 am
Unfortunately we’ve lost any sort of momentum. Gray got us to the play offs purely on the back of the steam we’d built up in previous seasons. The season after was a similar story to what we have now.

More had to be changed in the summer than Alun would have liked and any team bringing in 10 or so new players will struggle initially. No matter how good the recruitment is you’re not going to get it all right so it needs to be refined over time. We effectively went back to square one.

The biggest worry for me is Alun’s demeanour since the start of the season, he seems to be carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and I’m sure that’s having an effect on the players. He’ll know the recruitment wasn’t what he wanted it to be but at some stage you’ve got to draw a line under it and make the best of what you have
The major part of AA's clear-out involved the group who went back to Blyth and it's interesting to see how they are faring now. Some here felt it was a mistake to let them all go but Blyth are now hurtling towards the relegation places and bottom of the form table. Plenty of Blyth fans are saying Maguire's not the player he was and doesn't look like he ever will be. He's still on big money and can't hit a barn door at present. Liddle was on the bench earlier in the season, Reid had to play at centre back but then started dropping some clangers, Watson's in and out and their other returning star player Buddle is usually troubled by a long-term back injury. Some of the fans are calling for Nelson to go before it's too late.

Darlopartisan
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Re: Southport...

Post by Darlopartisan » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:27 pm

All we need is another Ellis, simple, apparently like hens teeth though.

lo36789
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Re: Southport...

Post by lo36789 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:32 pm

Thing is I am not sure a ground with a view is outside of the question at BM.

Though we might need to divert some money to ground development and I don't get the feeling that would be popular.

There will be remarks of why should we (because it is us that want it) and the rugby club don't want us (but also the rugby club want our money).

More legitimately is that it would be a waste given the ceiling of BM from a development side but the problem is we are not even close to threatening that ceiling really.

I'm not sure elevated views would give a particularly good ROI either (for the club as a business) - would increase in attendances justify the cost.

jjljks
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Re: Southport...

Post by jjljks » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:45 pm

joejaques wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:32 am
jjljks wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:27 am
darloed19 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:22 pm
Gone as far as we can being a fan owned club.
Can think of a few foreign clubs that are fan owned & did quite well for a while. Barcelona & Bundesliga clubs have shown what can be achieved (but I will settle for a competitve team with spirit, playing in our own stadium within Darlington BC boundary).
Ok, I will admit still some way to go there on both fronts.
Mind, Barcelona have just lost their manager after losing the latest El Classico, so can always be a struggle!
First target, an extra 30,000 or so owners. :roll:
Haha, yes! Not just like the mythical Spenny fans. Maybe we can have virtual owners like the exiles in Texas,, Germany, Norway, NZ & Wales of course😉
Might be 28,000 of them living away or on mixlr!

Old Git
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Re: Southport...

Post by Old Git » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:18 pm

With regard to the question of whether we have reached our limit as a fan owned club I am reminded of something Martin Gray said. There are 2 types of clubs those moving forward and those moving backwards. Once you say you are looking to consolidate you have stopped moving forward and will start to move backwards.
I hope I have paraphrased him correctly but what I think he meant was once you lack ambition to improve you will be in decline as others will improve ahead of you. Probably explains why he became frustrated and moved on but he was right. Since he left 4 years ago we have struggled to move forward and consolidating equals stagnation and eventually regression.
Think he probably knew he had taken us as far as he could with the resources available. Unfortunately nothing has really changed since he left and it would take an exceptional manager to get us moving forward again.

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Southport...

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:37 pm

Old Git wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:18 pm
With regard to the question of whether we have reached our limit as a fan owned club I am reminded of something Martin Gray said. There are 2 types of clubs those moving forward and those moving backwards. Once you say you are looking to consolidate you have stopped moving forward and will start to move backwards.
I hope I have paraphrased him correctly but what I think he meant was once you lack ambition to improve you will be in decline as others will improve ahead of you. Probably explains why he became frustrated and moved on but he was right. Since he left 4 years ago we have struggled to move forward and consolidating equals stagnation and eventually regression.
Think he probably knew he had taken us as far as he could with the resources available. Unfortunately nothing has really changed since he left and it would take an exceptional manager to get us moving forward again.
We were in a lot of debt when he left, we couldn't afford the players we had and needed to arrest that situation fast. Not all of this was Gray's fault he was allowed to spend when we were late at moving back to Darlington and then crowds dropped after the play off fiasco and poor results.

However we have massively moved on from this and we aren't borrowing cash from fans and paying people late anymore. So next step is moving forward from that point of view on the field also, this will require stability.

Yarblockos
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Re: Southport...

Post by Yarblockos » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:41 pm

I don't think we do lack ambition though. We are told the budget is competitive (good enough that we should be able to challenge for a play-off place?) and nobody seems to be content with mid-table every season. We aren't aiming to stagnate. But I agree, its takes an exceptional manager or finding some hidden gems to take the team forward again.

eddie-rowles
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Re: Southport...

Post by eddie-rowles » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:41 pm

divas wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:28 am
Unfortunately we’ve lost any sort of momentum. Gray got us to the play offs purely on the back of the steam we’d built up in previous seasons. The season after was a similar story to what we have now.

More had to be changed in the summer than Alun would have liked and any team bringing in 10 or so new players will struggle initially. No matter how good the recruitment is you’re not going to get it all right so it needs to be refined over time. We effectively went back to square one.

The biggest worry for me is Alun’s demeanour since the start of the season, he seems to be carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and I’m sure that’s having an effect on the players. He’ll know the recruitment wasn’t what he wanted it to be but at some stage you’ve got to draw a line under it and make the best of what you have
Good shout, agree Alun doesnt look well and not surprising after a serious operation, his body language rubbing his face hiding his embarrassment , annoyance players not listening, perhaps Daz needs to take a more forward role and let Alun recover fully, his health is more important.

Darlobill
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Re: Southport...

Post by Darlobill » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:56 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:37 pm
Old Git wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:18 pm
With regard to the question of whether we have reached our limit as a fan owned club I am reminded of something Martin Gray said. There are 2 types of clubs those moving forward and those moving backwards. Once you say you are looking to consolidate you have stopped moving forward and will start to move backwards.
I hope I have paraphrased him correctly but what I think he meant was once you lack ambition to improve you will be in decline as others will improve ahead of you. Probably explains why he became frustrated and moved on but he was right. Since he left 4 years ago we have struggled to move forward and consolidating equals stagnation and eventually regression.
Think he probably knew he had taken us as far as he could with the resources available. Unfortunately nothing has really changed since he left and it would take an exceptional manager to get us moving forward again.
We were in a lot of debt when he left, we couldn't afford the players we had and needed to arrest that situation fast. Not all of this was Gray's fault he was allowed to spend when we were late at moving back to Darlington and then crowds dropped after the play off fiasco and poor results.

However we have massively moved on from this and we aren't borrowing cash from fans and paying people late anymore. So next step is moving forward from that point of view on the field also, this will require stability.
Not sure I agree, the cup run, TV money, and Covid loans have helped us hugely which have meant we haven’t had to rely on getting the begging bowl out yet. Off the pitch I think we have moved on with a lot more volunteering with a wider skill set on the pitch though I’m not sure we are any better than under MG or TW as results show. If as a club we are happy with league we are in then IMO that’s when you start to go backwards surely every club wants to be ambitious. It’s certainly hard to seem to get any traction this year.

Old Git
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Re: Southport...

Post by Old Git » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:28 pm

My comments about the club not moving forward were regarding our on field performances. I fully accept that off the field the club has made some progress.

Beano
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Re: Southport...

Post by Beano » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:52 pm

Darlobill wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:56 pm
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:37 pm
Old Git wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:18 pm
With regard to the question of whether we have reached our limit as a fan owned club I am reminded of something Martin Gray said. There are 2 types of clubs those moving forward and those moving backwards. Once you say you are looking to consolidate you have stopped moving forward and will start to move backwards.
I hope I have paraphrased him correctly but what I think he meant was once you lack ambition to improve you will be in decline as others will improve ahead of you. Probably explains why he became frustrated and moved on but he was right. Since he left 4 years ago we have struggled to move forward and consolidating equals stagnation and eventually regression.
Think he probably knew he had taken us as far as he could with the resources available. Unfortunately nothing has really changed since he left and it would take an exceptional manager to get us moving forward again.
We were in a lot of debt when he left, we couldn't afford the players we had and needed to arrest that situation fast. Not all of this was Gray's fault he was allowed to spend when we were late at moving back to Darlington and then crowds dropped after the play off fiasco and poor results.

However we have massively moved on from this and we aren't borrowing cash from fans and paying people late anymore. So next step is moving forward from that point of view on the field also, this will require stability.
Not sure I agree, the cup run, TV money, and Covid loans have helped us hugely which have meant we haven’t had to rely on getting the begging bowl out yet. Off the pitch I think we have moved on with a lot more volunteering with a wider skill set on the pitch though I’m not sure we are any better than under MG or TW as results show. If as a club we are happy with league we are in then IMO that’s when you start to go backwards surely every club wants to be ambitious. It’s certainly hard to seem to get any traction this year.
I’d argue the progress off the pitch is as important as that on the pitch.

We’ll never have a realistic tilt at promotion unless we’re financially stable and aren’t relying on begging bowls and loans to survive. That allows us to plan longer term and sustainably which in itself, if done properly, allows us to maximise what we have.

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D_F_C
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Re: Southport...

Post by D_F_C » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:48 pm

Darlopartisan wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:27 pm
All we need is another Ellis, simple, apparently like hens teeth though.
You'll get one in January. He's called David Wheater. Practically confirmed in the 'Under the cosh' Live shows earlier in the week. But he wants to work for AA

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D_F_C
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Re: Southport...

Post by D_F_C » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:48 pm

loan_star wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:35 am
H1987 wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:12 am
Gray got us to the playoffs when the ground was objectively worse than it is now.
Different team and on a promotion high. Not unusual to see a promoted team do well in its first season in a new league.
Virtually the same team in the next season struggled and Gray walked out. The rest is history!
Different league then as well. So much more quality, so much more full time, so much more £££

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Southport...

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:20 pm

Dan McGuire limped off with a groin injury after 40 minutes today and Blyth lost 4-0. I think Alun did the right thing in refreshing the squad. Also, Adam Campbell has scored very little this year, which may be partly down to where he is being played. Regarding recruitment, all clubs have found it difficult and I think this explains the up and down nature of results in the league this season. Realistically we're back to where we were when Alun arrived, as Divas has said, and it's probably another 2 year project to get the squad where he wants it to be. We just have to be patient, and no-one foresaw the disruption that the pandemic has caused and also our bad luck with chronic injuries (Luke Trotman, Jamie Holmes, Louis Laing).

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: Southport...

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:42 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:Dan McGuire limped off with a groin injury after 40 minutes today and Blyth lost 4-0. I think Alun did the right thing in refreshing the squad. Also, Adam Campbell has scored very little this year, which may be partly down to where he is being played. Regarding recruitment, all clubs have found it difficult and I think this explains the up and down nature of results in the league this season. Realistically we're back to where we were when Alun arrived, as Divas has said, and it's probably another 2 year project to get the squad where he wants it to be. We just have to be patient, and no-one foresaw the disruption that the pandemic has caused and also our bad luck with chronic injuries (Luke Trotman, Jamie Holmes, Louis Laing).
Completely forgot about Louis Laing, was showing good form before his injury and wonder if Alun brings him back.

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D_F_C
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Re: Southport...

Post by D_F_C » Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:46 am

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:20 pm
Dan McGuire limped off with a groin injury after 40 minutes today and Blyth lost 4-0. I think Alun did the right thing in refreshing the squad. Also, Adam Campbell has scored very little this year, which may be partly down to where he is being played. Regarding recruitment, all clubs have found it difficult and I think this explains the up and down nature of results in the league this season. Realistically we're back to where we were when Alun arrived, as Divas has said, and it's probably another 2 year project to get the squad where he wants it to be. We just have to be patient, and no-one foresaw the disruption that the pandemic has caused and also our bad luck with chronic injuries (Luke Trotman, Jamie Holmes, Louis Laing).
I certainly miss Adam Campbell and think he's doing well there. Obviously our biggest miss is Sousa. But I don't really miss any of the others

Old Git
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Re: Southport...

Post by Old Git » Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:14 am

D_F_C wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:46 am
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:20 pm
Dan McGuire limped off with a groin injury after 40 minutes today and Blyth lost 4-0. I think Alun did the right thing in refreshing the squad. Also, Adam Campbell has scored very little this year, which may be partly down to where he is being played. Regarding recruitment, all clubs have found it difficult and I think this explains the up and down nature of results in the league this season. Realistically we're back to where we were when Alun arrived, as Divas has said, and it's probably another 2 year project to get the squad where he wants it to be. We just have to be patient, and no-one foresaw the disruption that the pandemic has caused and also our bad luck with chronic injuries (Luke Trotman, Jamie Holmes, Louis Laing).
I certainly miss Adam Campbell and think he's doing well there. Obviously our biggest miss is Sousa. But I don't really miss any of the others
I don’t miss Campbell at all and I think 21 goals in 12 league games this season is clear evidence of that. Our front line of De Santos Cassidy Charman and Rivers are doing well and with Lambert Nelson and Mondal also available I can’t see where Campbell would fit in.
Good luck to him at Heed except against us but we have moved on.

Lallacab
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Re: Southport...

Post by Lallacab » Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:09 am

Old Git wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:14 am
D_F_C wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:46 am
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:20 pm
Dan McGuire limped off with a groin injury after 40 minutes today and Blyth lost 4-0. I think Alun did the right thing in refreshing the squad. Also, Adam Campbell has scored very little this year, which may be partly down to where he is being played. Regarding recruitment, all clubs have found it difficult and I think this explains the up and down nature of results in the league this season. Realistically we're back to where we were when Alun arrived, as Divas has said, and it's probably another 2 year project to get the squad where he wants it to be. We just have to be patient, and no-one foresaw the disruption that the pandemic has caused and also our bad luck with chronic injuries (Luke Trotman, Jamie Holmes, Louis Laing).
I certainly miss Adam Campbell and think he's doing well there. Obviously our biggest miss is Sousa. But I don't really miss any of the others
I don’t miss Campbell at all and I think 21 goals in 12 league games this season is clear evidence of that. Our front line of De Santos Cassidy Charman and Rivers are doing well and with Lambert Nelson and Mondal also available I can’t see where Campbell would fit in.
Good luck to him at Heed except against us but we have moved on.
21 goals in 12 games would suggest we’d miss him a lot lol

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