Darlo v Gloucester

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Vokuhila
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Vokuhila » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:32 pm
Their opening goal :thumbup: Premier league standard, he just caught it right
I was getting some strong North Macedonia vibes off their kit today, and I reckon if you'd been squinting at the time you might've thought it was Goran Pandev himself stroking it in. Nice.

That game had so many talking points, it's ridiculous.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by onewayup » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:31 am

The poor standard of refereeing was the biggest talking point of today's game absolutely disgraceful. It's as if he was wearing their strip he became Gloucester's 12th man incredulous decisions favouring one team over the other. The mind boggles at the bad quality of some of these referees.

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Quaker85
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:33 am

Why are we seeing the standards decline so much in recent seasons? My mate reckons it’s grass roots abuse but I think it’s poor governance. The assessor will probably give him 6/10 for yesterday’s performance.


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loan_star
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by loan_star » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:29 pm

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:33 am
Why are we seeing the standards decline so much in recent seasons? My mate reckons it’s grass roots abuse but I think it’s poor governance. The assessor will probably give him 6/10 for yesterday’s performance.


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The problem is a lot of referees being promoted up the system have no idea how the game is played, just they know the rule book. We had a lad who packed in playing Sunday league who started refereeing and he was excellent, but to get promoted up the levels they said he wasn’t doing things correctly. He started refereeing as they like to see it and got promoted. Yet as a referee his handling of games got worse. But that’s how they like it, and that’s why the standard or referees is gradually getting worse as these robots get to officiate at higher levels

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:02 pm

Here’s a little example from yesterday’s game. Just one thing amongst the many.

At the end of the game, in the final minutes, our goalie TT attempted to take a free kick from obviously the wrong position (maybe 15-20 feet too far forward) and the ref stormed towards him and ordered him to move the ball back. TT took no notice, picked the ball up, moved it one inch then immediately kicked it. A clear booking yet the ref just ran away.

By this time I don’t think any player from either team was taking any notice of him, because of his ineptness he’d lost all respect.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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lo36789
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:00 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:02 pm
A clear booking yet the ref just ran away.
Out of interest what are you cautioning for?

An act of dissent? Aggressive attitude? Failing to respect the distance from a restart? Delaying the restart of play? Over celebration inciting crowd safety issues?

Can't just make up reasons to caution people. Taking a free kick from the wrong spot and not doing as you are asked are not offences.

As I have said before to players "unfortunately, being a pain in the arse isn't a cautionable offence, but you already know that as you are happy to get away with it"

Dunno about the rest of it - sounds like it was just general game management rather than actual decisions, but I am not sure Tommy Taylor committed a cautionable offence from what you have described.
Last edited by lo36789 on Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:17 pm

Awful though the ref was I'm not sure making an official complaint will be in our best interests going forward and nor do I think it will achieve anything. He was very inconsistent and made a lot of mistakes in his handling of the game and missed a lot of things but I would be happier if we just moved on. I can't really see what we hope to get from this move. I can also see some action potentially being taken against AA for his comments about the ref, even though his frustration was understandable.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:52 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:00 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:02 pm
A clear booking yet the ref just ran away.
Out of interest what are you cautioning for?

An act of dissent? Aggressive attitude? Failing to respect the distance from a restart? Delaying the restart of play? Over celebration inciting crowd safety issues?

Can't just make up reasons to caution people. Taking a free kick from the wrong spot and not doing as you are asked are not offences.

As I have said before to players "unfortunately, being a pain in the arse isn't a cautionable offence, but you already know that as you are happy to get away with it"

Dunno about the rest of it - sounds like it was just general game management rather than actual decisions, but I am not sure Tommy Taylor committed a cautionable offence from what you have described.
Dissent. He was clearly told what to do (possibly twice on thinking about it) but openly disobeyed the ref, right in front of the ref. I got the impression that TT wanted to get booked.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Emdubya » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:00 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:00 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:02 pm
A clear booking yet the ref just ran away.
Out of interest what are you cautioning for?

An act of dissent? Aggressive attitude? Failing to respect the distance from a restart? Delaying the restart of play? Over celebration inciting crowd safety issues?

Can't just make up reasons to caution people. Taking a free kick from the wrong spot and not doing as you are asked are not offences.

As I have said before to players "unfortunately, being a pain in the arse isn't a cautionable offence, but you already know that as you are happy to get away with it"

Dunno about the rest of it - sounds like it was just general game management rather than actual decisions, but I am not sure Tommy Taylor committed a cautionable offence from what you have described.
Wondered when you would stick your oar in as council for the defense.You obviously weren’t at the game given your”sounds like” comment.No doubt you’ll watch 10 minutes of highlights and tell us all he was playing a blinder.The man was an absolute joke and his assistants were not far behind.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:14 pm

Lo just a question on Taylor not taking the free kick from the correct place after the ref asked him twice to do so and Taylor ignoring him and after the the ref had pulled him up earlier in the game, how isn’t it a yellow card for repeated offenses? If it’s not can players then just do what they want and not adhere to the refs instructions?

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:20 pm

Nope if was a match day and funny enough there were football league games who needed officials.

Weird take. I just actually said the highlights won't show a great deal for the moans people have - as if sounds like it was general game management. I can't comment on the rest, and doubt it will ever be evident. I am sure out club mark will be reflective and since club marks account for 40% of the overall merit table then that is the feedback loop.

The only thing I can comment on is the explicit example mentioned. Moving the ball, as requested, and then taking the kick is not an act of dissent (if it wasn't moved precisely to the point that is quite judgemental - if it's a kick taken by a goalkeeper it is usually defensive / halfway like in which case give or take 5/10 yards doesn't really matter a great deal).

Simply put it is not an offence. It's a retake but who wants that at the end of the game just better to get on with it and finish the game.

Not listening is not an offence by the laws either. Football matches aren't victorian classrooms. If players were cautioned every time they had to be asked twice to do something there wouldn't be many games which would play to a finish.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:18 pm

I think I’m right in saying you’re a ref? Assuming you are, if a player on a number of occasions doesn’t listen to you and shows dissent through either his words or actions and you had spoken to him before about it, you wouldn’t caution him?

I’ll let you watch the highlights as it will show the elbow into Cassidy and hopefully it’ll show the two penalty the shouts, the first of which was blatant, the second maybe in the bracket of I’ve seen them given.

On the elbow i asked one of their subs who was warming up and even he said it was. Things like that change games because the pit player is more than likely to have been sent off.

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the foul committed by Cassidy when he tripped their lad, but was a clear two yards away from him because another one of their lads had eased him away from the ball.

What I’m trying to get at is it wasn’t just fans moaning about game management although there was a lot of that, it was a string of very poor decisions which unfortunately went against us.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:58 pm

Darlo_Rob wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:18 pm
I think I’m right in saying you’re a ref? Assuming you are, if a player on a number of occasions doesn’t listen to you and shows dissent through either his words or actions and you had spoken to him before about it, you wouldn’t caution him?
If it is an act of actual dissent. That is the point being asked to place the ball and it not being where spectators think it should have been but the referee being happy with placement is not an offence.
Darlo_Rob wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:18 pm
I’ll let you watch the highlights as it will show the elbow into Cassidy and hopefully it’ll show the two penalty the shouts, the first of which was blatant, the second maybe in the bracket of I’ve seen them given.

On the elbow i asked one of their subs who was warming up and even he said it was. Things like that change games because the pit player is more than likely to have been sent off.

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the foul committed by Cassidy when he tripped their lad, but was a clear two yards away from him because another one of their lads had eased him away from the ball.

What I’m trying to get at is it wasn’t just fans moaning about game management although there was a lot of that, it was a string of very poor decisions which unfortunately went against us.
Footage is what these decisions are judged on - and it's why I haven't commented on anything as have nothing to base evidence on. Supporters are a pretty unreliable source normally.

Last week a decision was proclaimed as the worst non offside ever seen...fans moved down the ground to shout abuse for 30 minutes about it and waiting in car park...Guess what the footage showed. His arm / hand was in an offside position when the ball was played the rest of him was onside.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:09 pm

There was another incident that also fired me up. A Gloucester player goes down injured in front of the seated stand, he starts off (I’m pretty sure about this) off the pitch, then rolls onto the pitch. Eventually a delay insures but wait a minute, no away team physiotherapist is active, so more delay! Then eventually the player is told to roll off and at that point a physio then does immediately start to sprint around the pitch perimeter.

So my question is (lo) shouldn’t the lineman have seen this as a time wasting ploy and advised the ref accordingly? A lot of this time was not accounted for.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:13 pm

Problem is you very rarely trust your OWN fans and going back to the dissent, the ref wasn’t happy with where the ball was placed and told Taylor several times then and on another occasion , but still allowed him to take it. I and others have told you that many times now, but you clearly haven’t listened, or as is usual with a number of your posts you just want to argue with your OWN fans and side with the refs union.

If you’re on Twitter check out the stills of the elbow and see if you can defend it.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:13 pm

Ps, amazing first goal though. One of the best ever at Blackwell Meadows - special mention to Thomo’s long range lob v K’minster a few years back.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:21 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:58 pm
Darlo_Rob wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:18 pm
I think I’m right in saying you’re a ref? Assuming you are, if a player on a number of occasions doesn’t listen to you and shows dissent through either his words or actions and you had spoken to him before about it, you wouldn’t caution him?
If it is an act of actual dissent. That is the point being asked to place the ball and it not being where spectators think it should have been but the referee being happy with placement is not an offence.
Darlo_Rob wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:18 pm
I’ll let you watch the highlights as it will show the elbow into Cassidy and hopefully it’ll show the two penalty the shouts, the first of which was blatant, the second maybe in the bracket of I’ve seen them given.

On the elbow i asked one of their subs who was warming up and even he said it was. Things like that change games because the pit player is more than likely to have been sent off.

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the foul committed by Cassidy when he tripped their lad, but was a clear two yards away from him because another one of their lads had eased him away from the ball.

What I’m trying to get at is it wasn’t just fans moaning about game management although there was a lot of that, it was a string of very poor decisions which unfortunately went against us.
Footage is what these decisions are judged on - and it's why I haven't commented on anything as have nothing to base evidence on. Supporters are a pretty unreliable source normally.

Last week a decision was proclaimed as the worst non offside ever seen...fans moved down the ground to shout abuse for 30 minutes about it and waiting in car park...Guess what the footage showed. His arm / hand was in an offside position when the ball was played the rest of him was onside.
Hang on lo, I got a very good view on this and also it was OUR goalie Tommy Taylor. I’m not being partisan here, I don’t want Darlo players to be booked! The ref asked him to move it back 15/20 foot. He (TT) picked the ball up, put it down in virtually the same place and kicked it quickly. It seemed to me he was on a wind up really, but it also illustrates that the ref had given up and it also illustrates that the players had lost respect.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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bigdavethemaddog
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by bigdavethemaddog » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:28 pm

what kicked off in the second half in front of the seated stand with the Gloucester player (Mensah?) when the ref was called over then ran across the piych to speak to his linesman and a steward near the dugouts?

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:40 pm

bigdavethemaddog wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:28 pm
what kicked off in the second half in front of the seated stand with the Gloucester player (Mensah?) when the ref was called over then ran across the piych to speak to his linesman and a steward near the dugouts?
A drink was thrown at him apparently.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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lo36789
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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:41 pm

bigdavethemaddog wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:28 pm
what kicked off in the second half in front of the seated stand with the Gloucester player (Mensah?) when the ref was called over then ran across the piych to speak to his linesman and a steward near the dugouts?
Someone said a liquid was thrown at him? It would have just been to let our safety officer know it would be reported as the club are obligated to report it as well.

Protocol is that it has to be reported.
Last edited by lo36789 on Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:46 pm

Darlo_Rob wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:13 pm
Problem is you very rarely trust your OWN fans and going back to the dissent, the ref wasn’t happy with where the ball was placed and told Taylor several times then and on another occasion , but still allowed him to take it. I and others have told you that many times now, but you clearly haven’t listened, or as is usual with a number of your posts you just want to argue with your OWN fans and side with the refs union.

If you’re on Twitter check out the stills of the elbow and see if you can defend it.
Darlington fans are still fans...sorry to say it.

Stills are pointless to judge anything but offside and positional decisions. You need to know speed, distance and context.

Based purely on the stills which is a player with his eyes on the ball it could be a yellow for dangerous play, hard to say it was an act of violence with brutality from the images. Would need to see a deliberate act of swinging the elbow with force for it to warrant a red card (it may have been but the two images on twitter do not show that they just show an arm that is up).

If the free kick was given to Gloucester clearly not the right decision...

Just based on the facts not placing the ball correctly is not an outburst of dissent to dispute a decision. It just needs active management to get the game restarted as quick as possible. This is just the reality. If he had cautioned I am pretty sure he would have been absolute crucified on his report both under management of restarts and within application of law.

I've no idea on the rest.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:15 pm

Of course placing the ball in the wrong position isn’t an outburst of dissent, but doing it on several occasions when the referee has told you to take the ball back and either refuses to do so, or clearly moving it back a few inches is. If you don’t think that is and as a referee don’t at the very least talk to him, or in my opinion in this case caution him, you’re not doing your job in controlling the game.

I didn’t say he should have got a red card for the elbow, I said it was more than likely a red would have been given if the ref was watching. You must think he ref got it wrong (will the refs union strike you off for going against them), because you think it’s a yellow.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:19 pm

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Old Git » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:27 pm

Fans will always moan about referees and think they have been biased against their team but I have to say Mr Cooper was not only inept but seemed to be constantly giving decisions in favour of Gloucester. He made so many mistakes it is hard to know where to begin. Have to agree with AA that he looked like he had won a raffle prize to referee a football match but had never seen a game in his life let alone played or refereed one.
He seemed completely ignorant of Gloucester’s time wasting tactics and indeed through his incompetence he seemed to help them. I believe he should have added 8/10 minutes of injury time on at the end of the second half but only played 5 minutes. The incident that started with Rivers being elbowed in the face and led to the drink throwing incident must have taken up most of the 5 minutes. In addition there were other blatant time wasting incidents, one of the most obvious including the stricken player lying a yard on the pitch and a slow physio that Danny would have breezed past, being one of the most obvious. In addition there were I believe 5 substitutes used which would account for at least another two and a half minutes.
With regards to the elbow in the face of Rivers, not sure how both the ref and linesman missed that one. The useless linesman had an uninterrupted view from about 10 yards away. When he came off blood was pouring from his nose. How did the clowns in charge think that happened?

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:30 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:19 pm
SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Force or brutality. See you said it. A still image cannot possibly enable a judgement of either of those.

It could be wrong but I'd need to see it. Based purely on the stills it equally just looks like a high arm used for leverage.

If people really want the answer. Pay them more.

£50-£80 to be out the house for 8-10 hours on a Saturday. After covid loads have realised that it isn't worth it for what they lose in terms of time with their families. About 30-40% down on affiliations across the country and more and more are packing in every week.

I left the house at 6am and got home at 1am on Wednesday for £60 match fee...or £34.80 after tax and national insurance...do you think there are queues of people wanting to do that?

Loads of talk about ex pro's going into reffing. They see the money and they have a single answer for it "absolutely no way, not worth it".
Last edited by lo36789 on Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by bigdavethemaddog » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:37 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:41 pm
bigdavethemaddog wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:28 pm
what kicked off in the second half in front of the seated stand with the Gloucester player (Mensah?) when the ref was called over then ran across the piych to speak to his linesman and a steward near the dugouts?
Someone said a liquid was thrown at him? It would have just been to let our safety officer know it would be reported as the club are obligated to report it as well.

Protocol is that it has to be reported.
cheers. i was over the other side so didnt see the incident. i thought it was a racist remark at first.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:37 pm

Read it Lo. It doesn't have to involve excessive force or brutality, a challenge that endangers the safety of a player is a red card offence. I would think flailing your elbow at a player's face would be included in that. You'd be better off trying to defend the ref after you've seen it rather than adopting your usual "fans know nowt" stance.
Last edited by LoidLucan on Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:39 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:37 pm
Read it Lo. It doesn't have to involve force or brutality, a challenge that endangers the safety of a player is a red card offence. I would think flailing your elbow at a player's face would be included in that.
Underlying requirement is excessive force.

Per law..."Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off"

It's 'and' clause to endanger the safety the excessive force is a precursor.

That is the baseline box that is always asked first there is a difference between "could you hurt an opponent" v "could you endanger their safety".

I haven't tried to defend. I have repeated repeatedly I have no idea if it's right or wrong based on still images.

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:48 pm

So a high arm used for leverage which makes contact with an opponents face (I’m assuming you’ve seen both stills) is still a foul, I’m assuming you still agree with that. Again, because you only seem to read certain parts of posts, I’m not saying whether it was a red or yellow, but to give a free kick to Gloucester?

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Re: Darlo v Gloucester

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:48 pm

I've quoted the law as it's written in black and white and it states that a challenge that endangers the safety of a player is a red card offence. It couldn't be clearer.

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