Luke Charmans value

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Quakerlad
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Luke Charmans value

Post by Quakerlad » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:29 pm

Interesting to see Carver sign for Hartlepool for a “reported” £20k fee.

He is more experienced than Luke for sure but is a few years older so will be interesting to see where our valuation sits. Personally, I believe £50k is realistically probably the most we could expect even though I think he is worth a lot more, easily the best forward we have had for sometime and love seeing him play. Clearly he was promised in the summer that we would not stand in his way of full time football if a good offer came and must have been an influence in him signing.
That puts us in a difficult situation of balancing loyalty to him and the best interests of the club.

No idea if there is any history of fees paid for NLN level players but would be interesting.

Interesting few weeks ahead.

Old Git
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Old Git » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:50 pm

Quakerlad wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:29 pm
Interesting to see Carver sign for Hartlepool for a “reported” £20k fee.

He is more experienced than Luke for sure but is a few years older so will be interesting to see where our valuation sits. Personally, I believe £50k is realistically probably the most we could expect even though I think he is worth a lot more, easily the best forward we have had for sometime and love seeing him play. Clearly he was promised in the summer that we would not stand in his way of full time football if a good offer came and must have been an influence in him signing.
That puts us in a difficult situation of balancing loyalty to him and the best interests of the club.

No idea if there is any history of fees paid for NLN level players but would be interesting.

Interesting few weeks ahead.
Personally I don’t think we are in a difficult position at all. The job of AA and DJ is quite clearly to obtain the best possible deal they can for Darlington Football Club. Loyalty to Charman doesn’t really come into it as far as I am concerned. He is our employee and if other potential employers want his services it is up to them to sell him to the highest bidder, or if nobody meets what they think he is worth, to retain his services for the present time.
It is up to Charman’s agent to seek the best deal for their client which may or may not be the same as the best deal for the football club. Just as an example let’s say a cash rich NL team such as Wrexham or Stockport offer a higher transfer fee and extra incentives than an EFL team, say Bradford or Rochdale then I would expect us to sell to the NL team.

LoidLucan
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:52 pm

I think we can trust AA to get the balance right. He unearthed the gem that is Charman, has developed his game, helped get him back on track and I'm sure Charman trusts him. AA will also have an informed idea of a realistic price to be paid given all the circumstances. I'm sure the two things will come together to keep all parties happy. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of extras in the deal to do with goals, future transfers etc. You couldn't see AA being a soft touch and I'm sure he'll do right by both the player and club.

JE93
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by JE93 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:13 pm

Quakerlad wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:29 pm
Interesting to see Carver sign for Hartlepool for a “reported” £20k fee.

He is more experienced than Luke for sure but is a few years older so will be interesting to see where our valuation sits. Personally, I believe £50k is realistically probably the most we could expect even though I think he is worth a lot more, easily the best forward we have had for sometime and love seeing him play. Clearly he was promised in the summer that we would not stand in his way of full time football if a good offer came and must have been an influence in him signing.
That puts us in a difficult situation of balancing loyalty to him and the best interests of the club.

No idea if there is any history of fees paid for NLN level players but would be interesting.

Interesting few weeks ahead.
Not sure the Carver comparison is the best in terms of like for like as he's 4 years older than Charman and was only contracted to the summer (another 6 months). Not to dissimilar to the £15k we got for Beck when we sold him to Harrogate.

I think the other thing that is important for the January transfer market is the domino effect. X club buys Y clubs Striker. Y club now has money but no Striker, so buys Z clubs Striker with some of that money. Z club now has money but no Striker. And so on. It normally takes a move or two in the leagues 1 / 2 to get this all moving. Interestingly, Jake Beesley has just moved from Rochdale (one of the clubs rumoured to be in for Charman) to Blackpool for a fee believed to be in the region of £300k.

I genuinley hope we are asking for £75k (guarenteed) plus add ons for Charman. He is the best talent we've developed this far since demotion to the Northern League and he's bang in form in a mens league after having scored for fun at youth level. I fully want the lad to get to test himself at the highest level possible, but the club has to be compensated properly for the loss of a key player and hopefully with the proceeds tie down some of our other key talents (eg Jack Lambert) to longer contracts.

MB86DFC
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by MB86DFC » Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:27 pm

How much did we get for Heaton?

I’d be disappointed with anything less than 6 figures.

lo36789
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:00 pm

I had £50k in my head as well to be honest, hopefully with some add ons. Just from a pure economics stand point and the types of other transfer fees you see.

Unless you sell to a big hitter in League Two I am not sure many have the budget to spend a lot on transfer fees, but then he is a striker so should cost more than what Heaton was sold for (£80k wasn't it?).

We are in a strong position in terms of Charman being contracted, the only aspect where I worry we are weakened slightly is we don't want to keep him against his will, if an offer is below value would we really stand in Charman's way to go back to pro football.

onewayup
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by onewayup » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:01 pm

I believe charman is worth as much as AACan get for him , 100,000 plus add-ons would be a good start considering his age. :thumbup:

LoidLucan
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:32 pm

There may (or may not) be some pointers in this. In 2020 Forest Green signed Josh March, then 22, from Leamington after he had scored 24 goals in 27 games. The fee was undisclosed but FGR's opening bid was reported to be around £25,000. But inflation has rocketed since then :D

I hardly dare say it but Leamington also got a pre-season friendly out of the deal.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by jjljks » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:46 pm

Sad that the value of Charman has to be quantified, as he has yet to develop his potential. Hopefully, he will go to a club that can nurture his raw talent & give him a career path whilst at the same time, give us a good deal and a share if he does make proress

Old Git
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Old Git » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 pm

We can discuss Luke Charman’s value until the cows come home but ultimately is simply whatever someone is willing to pay for him.

lo36789
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:55 pm

Old Git wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 pm
We can discuss Luke Charman’s value until the cows come home but ultimately is simply whatever someone is willing to pay for him.
And what we are prepared to sell him for...of course.

Sure my old manager, who used to do the books for the royal estate, said Buckingham Palace didn't have an accounting value on the basis it didn't have a 'willing seller' - no idea how true that is.

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Spyman
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Spyman » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 am

I'd expect around £50k, but the real value is in the player he turns into in a few years time and if we're hoping to make real money on him this can only really be done through his next move or the one after - no non-league player is going to sell for 6-figures but a league 1/2 player quite possibly will.

We need to get him sold to a team that can develop him further and make sure we've got sell on clauses for his next move and the one beyond that (I presume that's possible). That's where any decent money will be generated if he continues to develop as a player.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Beano » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:43 am

Spyman wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 am
I'd expect around £50k, but the real value is in the player he turns into in a few years time and if we're hoping to make real money on him this can only really be done through his next move or the one after - no non-league player is going to sell for 6-figures but a league 1/2 player quite possibly will.

We need to get him sold to a team that can develop him further and make sure we've got sell on clauses for his next move and the one beyond that (I presume that's possible). That's where any decent money will be generated if he continues to develop as a player.

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^^^ Exactly this.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:51 am

Beano wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:43 am
Spyman wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 am
I'd expect around £50k...
^^^ Exactly this.
+1

LoidLucan
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:31 am

Agreed although Leicester did pay £1m for Jamie Vardy in 2012 after his scoring exploits for Fleetwood in the Conference Premier. Fleetwood had paid £156,000 to sign him from Halifax.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by tdk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:25 am

Notice Rochdale have just sold a striker to Blackpool, could be a reason for them to get involved

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Spyman
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Spyman » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:44 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:31 am
Agreed although Leicester did pay £1m for Jamie Vardy in 2012 after his scoring exploits for Fleetwood in the Conference Premier. Fleetwood had paid £156,000 to sign him from Halifax.
This is true - it's not to say it can't happen but Vardy was banging in hat-tricks on a regular basis in the Conference Premier which, as impressive as Charman's form has been, is a considerable step up in performance.

In fact, that probably adds some perspective - a better player scoring more in a higher division going for £156k (also in a time when lower league clubs arguable had a bit more money to spend pre-covid). £50k still sounds about right and if we're lucky, Charman turns into a Championship player and we bag another decent pay-out when he gets there.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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Luke Charmans value

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:39 pm

Spyman’s analysis is pretty much spot on.

If you look at it from a buying club’s point of view, Charman is clearly talented, but is playing part-time in the sixth tier for a side that has, for the most part been bottom half to mid-table this season.

Moreover, he’s had an excellent half a season, but not much beyond that (hard to draw too many conclusions from last season, where it was abandoned without him scoring a league goal).

League 1 and League 2 clubs rarely spent £100k in the good times, let alone off the back of a pandemic. Spending six figures on a player untested in the EFL would be a massive gamble.

I think some fans might want to temper their expectations on how much we would get if he leaves this month or in the summer. And as Spyman says, it’s the add-on clauses we should be more interested in, not the up front fee. They’re way more lucrative.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:03 pm

Agreed. Can't we imagine us doing the same thing when we were a League Two side.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Vodka_Vic » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:56 pm

I'm sure there was a non-league club which netted 7 figures recently on a sell-on clause. Wasn't Chorley was it?

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:06 pm

Anyone who sells to Peterborough seems to net a decent sell on down the line!

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by MB86DFC » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:11 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:03 pm
Agreed. Can't we imagine us doing the same thing when we were a League Two side.
But we did spunk 100 grand on a 32 year old Joachim

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by JE93 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:54 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:56 pm
I'm sure there was a non-league club which netted 7 figures recently on a sell-on clause. Wasn't Chorley was it?
I think York netted seven figures when Ben Godfrey was sold by Norwich to Everton for c.£25m.

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Luke Charmans value

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:20 pm

MB86DFC wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:03 pm
Agreed. Can't we imagine us doing the same thing when we were a League Two side.
But we did spunk 100 grand on a 32 year old Joachim
And on Pawel Abbot as well (which may be Lo’s point - can never quite tell with him).

However Abbot and Joachim were established players, two of the best in the division. And that was at a time when George Houghton was happy to throw around money on players and wages that ultimately we couldn’t afford. And there hadn’t just been a pandemic and the best part of 18 months without fans.

Charman is a part-time player at Tier 6 with no record in the EFL. Indeed, if we’d paid £100k for a 6th tier part-timer on the back of half a season, a lot of our fans would be questioning that.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Vodka_Vic » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:38 pm

JE93 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:54 pm
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:56 pm
I'm sure there was a non-league club which netted 7 figures recently on a sell-on clause. Wasn't Chorley was it?
I think York netted seven figures when Ben Godfrey was sold by Norwich to Everton for c.£25m.
Thanks. That's the one. That's what can happen down the line.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:53 pm

Just watch Newcastle make a big-money bid to bring Luke home as they are locked in a Championship promotion battle next season :D

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by Old Git » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:14 pm

I agree that we have to be realistic in our valuation of Charman but at the same time he is an exciting prospect with a good deal of potential. He has just turned 24 and is a genuine goal scorer with 2 good feet, pace and decent in the air. He can score goals from inside the six yard box but can also strike them from outside the box. He is a skilful and talented player who scores goals and as such is a rare commodity and will be in demand.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by darlo reborn » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:50 pm

With that comment above would you like to be his agent old git !!!!

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by tdk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:46 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:20 pm
MB86DFC wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:03 pm
Agreed. Can't we imagine us doing the same thing when we were a League Two side.
But we did spunk 100 grand on a 32 year old Joachim
And on Pawel Abbot as well (which may be Lo’s point - can never quite tell with him).

However Abbot and Joachim were established players, two of the best in the division. And that was at a time when George Houghton was happy to throw around money on players and wages that ultimately we couldn’t afford. And there hadn’t just been a pandemic and the best part of 18 months without fans.

Charman is a part-time player at Tier 6 with no record in the EFL. Indeed, if we’d paid £100k for a 6th tier part-timer on the back of half a season, a lot of our fans would be questioning that.
I seem to remember we had agreed to pay £100,000 for tresor kandol as well, before whatever happened with him happened. He was probably more comparable to charman, albeit from the league above.

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Re: Luke Charmans value

Post by lo36789 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:06 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:20 pm
MB86DFC wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:03 pm
Agreed. Can't we imagine us doing the same thing when we were a League Two side.
But we did spunk 100 grand on a 32 year old Joachim
And on Pawel Abbot as well (which may be Lo’s point - can never quite tell with him).

However Abbot and Joachim were established players, two of the best in the division. And that was at a time when George Houghton was happy to throw around money on players and wages that ultimately we couldn’t afford. And there hadn’t just been a pandemic and the best part of 18 months without fans.

Charman is a part-time player at Tier 6 with no record in the EFL. Indeed, if we’d paid £100k for a 6th tier part-timer on the back of half a season, a lot of our fans would be questioning that.
Haha yes it was...funny enough I originally put Joachim and Abbot as examples of where we would spend £100k

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