Guiesley Away

Open now for discussion of all things Darlo!

Moderators: mikkyx, uncovered

Old Git
Posts: 3216
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Old Git » Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:50 pm

loan_star wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:36 pm
Old Git wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:08 pm

Resorting to insults Gramps looks like you are losing the argument as well as your cool.
He has fallen for one of his own retorts there, however I do agree with him on this occasion that sacking AA leaves us still needing a striker and I would think the current manager is best placed to know what sort of striker we need to replace Charman.
I have to admit he has been unfortunate there as had Nelson been ready to step into the first team we probably wouldn’t have to think about signing anybody.

Yarblockos
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:19 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:55 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:52 pm
Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:29 pm
I don't think the argument "name a replacement" is as strong a defence of AA as you think it is. You NEED to tell us why AA is the best man for job, what he is doing well and where he is getting it right.
Is the default the position that he isn't?

It is actually quite hard to assess him being the best, given that is a relative term, without anything to compare him to.

Who am I assessing that he is better than?

To some extent the fact I can't identify anyone better is my basis for thinking he is the best person for it.
Well, you could assess him with a manager who has similar resources. Is 16th in the table is the best anyone could possibly do with the resources we have? The other factor is that if players aren't playing for the manager, no matter how good he is, then he is done for.

Quakerlad
Posts: 639
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:54 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Quakerlad » Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:56 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:38 pm
Quakerlad wrote:You do make me laugh at time Darlogramps, it lightens the day.

Must remember to put approx before my numbers next time then you can’t basically call me a liar.Image.

As for me enjoying us doing badly, just ask my partner about my bad moods when we lose and she will tell you about how much I revel in it when we lose. Image.

Fact is you just ignore the positive messages and pick up on the same people because they actually challenge you. Like someone said, it’s all about opinions and often ours differ but it doesn’t mean I don’t respect yours, so please respect others too, thanks,
I don’t have to respect opinions just because you hold them.

You have every right to hold an opinion, but don’t be so naive as to think everyone should respect it. If I think you have a s*** opinion, I’ll tell you that.

And I notice you still haven’t withdrawn the fake information you made up. I didn’t say anything about needing to improve within any timeframe, let alone 12 games.

It’s pretty poor form from you to just make something up because it suits your purpose. The responsible thing from you would be to admit you got it wrong, apologise and then we can move on.
Like I said you lighten my day. Won’t be apologising but am moving on.

lo36789
Posts: 10931
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:07 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:55 pm
Well, you could assess him with a manager who has similar resources. Is 16th in the table is the best anyone could possibly do with the resources we have? The other factor is that if players aren't playing for the manager, no matter how good he is, then he is done for.
Nope I think someone probably could do better. Someone like Graham Potter or Steve Cooper would probably be able to achieve more, they have a good record of being able to get good value for resources in previous jobs. I also think their reputation and contacts would probably help bring in players.

But plucking elite managers out of the air and thinking they could do better doesn't feel a particularly worthwhile exercise.

The fact is Armstrong isn't utilising the resources we have. When he was utilising more of our resources we were on the top half, the under utilisation of our resources was out of his hands - but that seems to be being willfully ignored.

User avatar
loan_star
Posts: 7105
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:01 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by loan_star » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:09 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:50 pm
loan_star wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:36 pm
Old Git wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:08 pm

Resorting to insults Gramps looks like you are losing the argument as well as your cool.
He has fallen for one of his own retorts there, however I do agree with him on this occasion that sacking AA leaves us still needing a striker and I would think the current manager is best placed to know what sort of striker we need to replace Charman.
I have to admit he has been unfortunate there as had Nelson been ready to step into the first team we probably wouldn’t have to think about signing anybody.
He was right to gamble with Nelson. Hopefully he will sort his knee out and get back to being the player we know he is.
Until then we need a decent replacement either on loan or permanently.

LoidLucan
Posts: 4536
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:29 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:12 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:55 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:52 pm
Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:29 pm
I don't think the argument "name a replacement" is as strong a defence of AA as you think it is. You NEED to tell us why AA is the best man for job, what he is doing well and where he is getting it right.
Is the default the position that he isn't?

It is actually quite hard to assess him being the best, given that is a relative term, without anything to compare him to.

Who am I assessing that he is better than?

To some extent the fact I can't identify anyone better is my basis for thinking he is the best person for it.
Well, you could assess him with a manager who has similar resources. Is 16th in the table is the best anyone could possibly do with the resources we have? The other factor is that if players aren't playing for the manager, no matter how good he is, then he is done for.
I don't see evidence that the players aren't playing for the manager. Against Kettering, if Cassidy had converted that simple header we would have taken three points and I think we would have done likewise yesterday if he took the chances that came his way. There have been some fine margins recently and we have been only a smidge away from a totally different outcome in the last couple of games.To suggest the players have just packed in and given up on AA is just plain wrong.

Yarblockos
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:19 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:44 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:12 pm
I don't see evidence that the players aren't playing for the manager. Against Kettering, if Cassidy had converted that simple header we would have taken three points and I think we would have done likewise yesterday if he took the chances that came his way. There have been some fine margins recently and we have been only a smidge away from a totally different outcome in the last couple of games.To suggest the players have just packed in and given up on AA is just plain wrong.
Well, AA said he wanted a reaction after the Telford defeat, which must have been hugely embarrassing for everyone, but I'm not sure we've seen a reaction have we? We've lost the next two games 1-0. If a reaction meant we will lose by less than 5 then I guess its an improvement, but saying Cassidy had once chance against Kettering does not sound to me like we have massively responded to AA's demand.

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 6718
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:49 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:00 pm
Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:29 pm
I don't think the argument "name a replacement" is as strong a defence of AA as you think it is. You NEED to tell us why AA is the best man for job, what he is doing well and where he is getting it right. If I'm stuck in a lousy marriage and want a divorce, the fact I can't give you the name of my next wife does not stop it being a lousy marriage.
It is not a defence of AA in any way, shape or form and actually you'll find it is a pertinent question, if he goes we NEED to bring in someone who is going to improve us and what is a Fenton or an Elliot going to do that he isn't already? Further to your somewhat bizarre analogy it's like divorcing your wife and running off with your mistress, maybe the mistress is better looking and has bigger t**s etc but you find afterwards life with her is more unbearable than it was with your ex and you then you begin having regrets.

The moral of the story being the grass isn't always greener,
But what if you put the vacancy of wife through a proper, professional process? ;)

“So you’re better looking, have bigger t***s and also “etc” - but what else can you offer? Can you cook? Do you have bad mood swings?
Last edited by theoriginalfatcat on Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Profile pic ↗️
Feethams the Panda. 28 Jan 2012.
Now extinct!

LoidLucan
Posts: 4536
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:29 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:51 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:44 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:12 pm
I don't see evidence that the players aren't playing for the manager. Against Kettering, if Cassidy had converted that simple header we would have taken three points and I think we would have done likewise yesterday if he took the chances that came his way. There have been some fine margins recently and we have been only a smidge away from a totally different outcome in the last couple of games.To suggest the players have just packed in and given up on AA is just plain wrong.
Well, AA said he wanted a reaction after the Telford defeat, which must have been hugely embarrassing for everyone, but I'm not sure we've seen a reaction have we? We've lost the next two games 1-0. If a reaction meant we will lose by less than 5 then I guess its an improvement, but saying Cassidy had once chance against Kettering does not sound to me like we have massively responded to AA's demand.
Here's a couple of comments from Guiseley fans:

"Excellent performance against an experienced side who look better than their league position."

"Great game to watch, both teams gave it everything."

They don't have an axe to grind and the comments are completely at odds with what you are unfairly trying to suggest.

Yarblockos
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:19 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:53 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:07 pm
Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:55 pm
Well, you could assess him with a manager who has similar resources. Is 16th in the table is the best anyone could possibly do with the resources we have? The other factor is that if players aren't playing for the manager, no matter how good he is, then he is done for.
Nope I think someone probably could do better. Someone like Graham Potter or Steve Cooper would probably be able to achieve more, they have a good record of being able to get good value for resources in previous jobs. I also think their reputation and contacts would probably help bring in players.

But plucking elite managers out of the air and thinking they could do better doesn't feel a particularly worthwhile exercise.

The fact is Armstrong isn't utilising the resources we have. When he was utilising more of our resources we were on the top half, the under utilisation of our resources was out of his hands - but that seems to be being willfully ignored.
I would have thought it sensible to compare AA's performance with other managers in the NLN with similar resources. I'm not sure that Breedon, Taylor and Mondal are great use of our limted resources. Also, we were in the top half having played more games than anyone else.

lo36789
Posts: 10931
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:58 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:53 pm
I would have thought it sensible to compare AA's performance with other managers in the NLN with similar resources.
Who, someone like Chester are probably the closest to our resources.

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 6718
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:01 pm

This bickering between A.A’s supporters and detractors may become irrelevant because another few bad results may see him walk away.

Which would not be a good thing. Let’s remember, he is doing the job that Martin Gray felt was beneath him.
Profile pic ↗️
Feethams the Panda. 28 Jan 2012.
Now extinct!

Old Git
Posts: 3216
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Old Git » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:22 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:01 pm
This bickering between A.A’s supporters and detractors may become irrelevant because another few bad results may see him walk away.

Which would not be a good thing. Let’s remember, he is doing the job that Martin Gray felt was beneath him.
So you know that Martin Gray thought that managing Darlington was beneath him. Did a hell of a good job then. Really do try to engage your brain in future before talking such tripe.

Darlogramps
Posts: 6025
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:42 pm

Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:24 pm
Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:49 am
Quakerlad wrote: Remember you Gramps saying early season that we needed to give him more than 12 games to get it right. Well the last 12 have been worse and we are on a downward spiral, so much as I like the guy, we need new ideas.
I have never said that. Can you point me to that please?

Old Git said he needed 10 more but I’ve never said give him 12 more.

And which new ideas do we need? Do you want to see a new style? Focus on youth players? To go completely direct and play long ball? To bring in experienced old heads instead? Switch to three at the back?

Why won’t any of those angling for change tell us about the sort of change they want to see?

Surely it’s not because they’re happy to sound off from behind a keyboard, but have given no thought to what comes next Image
Old Git did say give him 10 more games to see where we are. Those games are now gone and if anything the situation has deteriorated.
As for recruiting a new manager, why do you make it sound so difficult? Businesses recruit new managers all the time. I have been retired for a little while now, but when I was involved with hiring someone, we would draw up a job description and then advertise the post in the relevant way. Candidates would submit a CV and we would sift through them to produce a shortlist of people to interview. The most suitable candidate would be offered the vacancy.
You seem to think we can somehow bypass the whole process and announce who we want before the potential vacancy is even available. Of course it is wise to have a list of requirements you expect the candidates to match, in terms of qualifications, experience and personal skills. It is also important to keep an open mind, as sometimes you can get a candidate who does not exactly fit your ideal profile, but you just get a good feeling that they will be right for the job. Also important to have 2 or 3 people involved in making the selection as others may pick up on something you’ve missed or overlooked.
Gramps, hope this helps you understand how the process of recruitment could work and why it is not possible to bandy names about without going through the proper process.
What is this utter inane drivel, you massive clueless bag of brain farts.

It is notoriously difficult to get the right manager. Trying to make out it’s as simple as inviting CVs is laughable. What if the candidates aren’t good enough? What if the right fit for the club is employed elsewhere so isn’t sending in a CV? What if all the applicants are less qualified than the bloke you’ve just got rid of?

All this is, is you dodging anything that puts you in the position of committing to any sort of opinion. All you want to do is sit on your backside and whinge repeatedly, as if you somehow know better than DJ and AA.

Yet you want even say which type of manager you want next? You don’t even have to name someone, but at least have some idea of what you want next.

You haven’t thought about because you’re a reactionary bag of hot air with no ideas, no originality, no capacity for independent thought.
Resorting to insults Gramps looks like you are losing the argument as well as your cool.
Nope, it’s just pointless trying to engage with you as you have nothing to say. And you’re more than happy to throw insults, even going after people’s mental health which is pretty despicable to be honest.

You’ve said far worse in the last few days on here than me, so don’t be trying to take the moral high ground. I’m just fighting fire with fire and you don’t like it.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

Darlogramps
Posts: 6025
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:43 pm

Amazing how Yarblockos is desperate to keep the discussion on slagging off Armstrong, but zero to offer on what he actually wants to see happen next.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 6718
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:44 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:22 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:01 pm
This bickering between A.A’s supporters and detractors may become irrelevant because another few bad results may see him walk away.

Which would not be a good thing. Let’s remember, he is doing the job that Martin Gray felt was beneath him.
So you know that Martin Gray thought that managing Darlington was beneath him. Did a hell of a good job then. Really do try to engage your brain in future before talking such tripe.
Nope, the Tripe-ometer is reading zero.

I’m just going by what he said at the time Oldgit. He said before he left, that the new money restraints he would have to endure would force him to sell his better players and he would struggle to be competitive. He also said that he knew that this would mean that fans could start to give him hassle (you know, the sort of thing that Armstrong is having to go through now) and he said he didn’t want to go through this.

Shortly after, he lined up a job at a “big club” and left, taking some of our better players with him. Because of his words and his actions, I think it’s fair to say that that Armstrong is now doing the job that he (Gray) felt was beneath him.

He said all this at the infamous fans forum and I heard it with my two working ears, because I was there.

He also said he had a mystery investor lined up who wanted to run the club on a 51/49% power ratio. As in the mystery investor would have the deciding vote on everything, but I let’s not get into this.
Profile pic ↗️
Feethams the Panda. 28 Jan 2012.
Now extinct!

Darlogramps
Posts: 6025
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Guiesley Away

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:45 pm

Quakerlad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:38 pm
Quakerlad wrote:You do make me laugh at time Darlogramps, it lightens the day.

Must remember to put approx before my numbers next time then you can’t basically call me a liar.Image.

As for me enjoying us doing badly, just ask my partner about my bad moods when we lose and she will tell you about how much I revel in it when we lose. Image.

Fact is you just ignore the positive messages and pick up on the same people because they actually challenge you. Like someone said, it’s all about opinions and often ours differ but it doesn’t mean I don’t respect yours, so please respect others too, thanks,
I don’t have to respect opinions just because you hold them.

You have every right to hold an opinion, but don’t be so naive as to think everyone should respect it. If I think you have a s*** opinion, I’ll tell you that.

And I notice you still haven’t withdrawn the fake information you made up. I didn’t say anything about needing to improve within any timeframe, let alone 12 games.

It’s pretty poor form from you to just make something up because it suits your purpose. The responsible thing from you would be to admit you got it wrong, apologise and then we can move on.
Like I said you lighten my day. Won’t be apologising but am moving on.
Excellent, you’ve set the precedent. I’ll make up blatant inaccuracies about you in future. In the meantime, you keep cheering for the opposition.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

Wijnhard's_Schlong
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:52 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Wijnhard's_Schlong » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:47 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:07 am
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:52 am
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:47 pm


Why does he NEED to name a replacement? What team is in a position to cherry pick a new manager before they sack the current one? And if he can't name a replacement does that mean there isn't anyone out there who would be interested who is better than AA?
Exactly this. What an absolutely feeble argument that is to persist with an under-performing management team - oooh, well name someone better?
Erm, how is that a feeble argument? Surely if you want rid of a manager, there needs to be a discussion about what the next steps are.

It’s not enough to just say “Get rid of the manager”. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask of those wanting a change about the exact change they want. It says a lot that people like you, Yarblockos and Old Git get so defensive when people ask that question.

Do you want a manager with a passing style? Someone who promotes youth? Someone with a more pragmatic or direct style?

You can’t say you want change but have no idea about the change you want. There’s nothing constructive in that at all.

If you don’t know enough to be able to do that, well I would suggest you find Google and do a bit of researching, instead of whining like a snowflake every Saturday.
Two Saturdays running now constitutes every Saturday does it? Interesting. I've specifically withheld any major criticism up to this point for numerous reasons but there gets to a point when enough is enough. How long are you happy to let the same patterns repeat themselves? Slow start to the season, hugely inconsistent results, inabilities to bring in the correct personnel, nothing changing when on bad runs of form. All synonymous with AA's tenure. If calling the current malaise out for what it is, shite, means I'm a snowflake then so be it.

I haven't the time nor inclination to scour the non-league scene for possible managerial candidates, particularly if it's only to appease your point of view. Serious question - do you think there's nobody who could be attracted to the club that could achieve a better return of 27 points from 25 games given our budget?
So you know enough to determine AA needs to go, but don’t know enough to determine even the type of replacement you want to see?

You do realise how ludicrous that sounds, don’t you?

I’ve said in this thread how long I’d give it. I’m not repeating myself if you can’t be bothered to read properly.

As for “I’m not scouting the non-league scene particularly just to appease you” - grow up will you. I’ve asked you what type of change you want to see and you can’t answer. It shows how vacuous your opinion is.

Basically you’re scared to commit to a position. It’s very easy to criticise from behind a keyboard but when someone actually asks you what you think on what comes next, you have no idea.
Well this is going to be the most fantastically epic waste of time but, go on there, I'll spell it out for you.

The evidence I have in forming the opinion that a change of manager is required is there for all to see. League position, form table and repeated issues in being able to bring in the correct personnel. The squad is either not as good as many seem to believe it is, or, these apparently better-than-they're-currently-showing players aren't performing to their potential for tactical and/or motivational reasons. Either way this falls at the feet of the manager. While I acknowledge we're a unique club in many respects and there is seemingly some harmonious progress being made behind the scenes/off the pitch, football is ultimately a results business and (based on the reasons above) I have no reason to believe we'll achieve the holy grail of genuinely challenging for the play-offs.

As I've repeated, my biggest frustration in the current plight is where we're at relative to budget. Before you ask, I obviously haven't got the facts to back this up but it's safe to say we're hardly languishing at the bottom of the table on that front. A candidate with a proven ability to over-achieve relative to budget at a similar level would clearly be a major plus. I also think we need a manager with a more ruthless streak, too much loyalty has been shown to certain individuals over the course of the current tenure in my opinion. In terms of playing style, I think you can only pass your way to the top end of this league with a squad full of "proper" footballers which is sadly out of our reach financially. I'd be looking to negate this with a more direct style and a few more big hard lumps to try and get away from the soft centre the current team has shown time and time again. Granted it's not as pretty on the eye but neither is the apparently more attractive passing style currently being served up. I'm not party to the required information that would draw up which candidates fit this bill but expect the Board would be broadly aware.

Not really scared in committing to a position or ludicrous is it.

User avatar
loan_star
Posts: 7105
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:01 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by loan_star » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:27 pm

Spendy are underachieving with their budget which is far bigger than ours, they’ve changed their manager and got in the pair who no doubt a lot of Darlo fans would have wanted, and yet they are still under achieving.

lo36789
Posts: 10931
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:30 pm

loan_star wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:27 pm
Spendy are underachieving with their budget which is far bigger than ours, they’ve changed their manager and got in the pair who no doubt a lot of Darlo fans would have wanted, and yet they are still under achieving.
And York and Gloucester and Chester

quakersfan
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:26 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by quakersfan » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:41 pm

The main thing is not get drawn into the bottom of the table and just stay up this season. We need to regroup next season but unless something fundamentally changes next season will be the same. We need to bring some investment to increase the playing budget in ASAP.

lo36789
Posts: 10931
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:44 pm

quakersfan wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:41 pm
We need to bring some investment to increase the playing budget in ASAP.
Quite hard when the constitution doesn't allow it.

Both the football club and the DFCSG have objectives that they must encourage community ownership - it is basically a legal requirement to reject ownership which would reduce the power of the community / fans, and to continually promote / increase the stake the fans have.

I don't even know if legally the directors of the company are able to go out and seek 'investors' who would reduce the ownership of the community, as that wouldn't be in line with the objectives.

So unless someone is going to invest their money, for no ownership stake just to burn it on a playing budget...it ain't happening.

The reality is you use the word investment...what people really mean is money.

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 6718
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:53 pm

loan_star wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:27 pm
Spendy are underachieving with their budget which is far bigger than ours, they’ve changed their manager and got in the pair who no doubt a lot of Darlo fans would have wanted, and yet they are still under achieving.
Not for me thank you :o
Profile pic ↗️
Feethams the Panda. 28 Jan 2012.
Now extinct!

Wiseacre
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:57 pm
Team Supported: Darlington &Notts County

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Wiseacre » Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:02 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:22 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:01 pm
This bickering between A.A’s supporters and detractors may become irrelevant because another few bad results may see him walk away.

Which would not be a good thing. Let’s remember, he is doing the job that Martin Gray felt was beneath him.
So you know that Martin Gray thought that managing Darlington was beneath him. Did a hell of a good job then. Really do try to engage your brain in future before talking such tripe.
It really is daft to impugn Gray's record like that. If he'd thought the Darlo job was beneath him he'd have said so when he was building a team from scratch for the Northern League - presumably OFC remembers the next couple of years. It's interesting his name keeps coming up and as Gramps has pointed out he made following Quakers exciting for a while. Take away the unreasonable demands over financing and he should be seen as one of our best managers. Are there any of that calibre available ?

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 6718
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:27 pm

Wiseacre wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:02 pm
Old Git wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:22 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:01 pm
This bickering between A.A’s supporters and detractors may become irrelevant because another few bad results may see him walk away.

Which would not be a good thing. Let’s remember, he is doing the job that Martin Gray felt was beneath him.
So you know that Martin Gray thought that managing Darlington was beneath him. Did a hell of a good job then. Really do try to engage your brain in future before talking such tripe.
It really is daft to impugn Gray's record like that. If he'd thought the Darlo job was beneath him he'd have said so when he was building a team from scratch for the Northern League - presumably OFC remembers the next couple of years. It's interesting his name keeps coming up and as Gramps has pointed out he made following Quakers exciting for a while. Take away the unreasonable demands over financing and he should be seen as one of our best managers. Are there any of that calibre available ?
You've missed my point. I'm not calling into question his record. He did very well for us. It was his experience and work ethic that pushed us through the leagues but he did this with the help of being able to outspend most of his competitors. Don't get me wrong though, he still did a good job by getting this success. success that we all enjoyed.

When we got into this present league a number of things happened. Seatgate, and the infamous fans forum that happened after, and it is this time that I refer to when I state that he didn't fancy the job that Alun is now doing. He (Gray) said this before moving on.

Alun is now working to the financial realities that Gray didn't fancy when they were put to him. This is not impugning his record and has nothing at all with building a team from scratch in the early days.
Profile pic ↗️
Feethams the Panda. 28 Jan 2012.
Now extinct!

Darlogramps
Posts: 6025
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Guiesley Away

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:33 pm

Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Well this is going to be the most fantastically epic waste of time but, go on there, I'll spell it out for you.

The evidence I have in forming the opinion that a change of manager is required is there for all to see. League position, form table and repeated issues in being able to bring in the correct personnel. The squad is either not as good as many seem to believe it is, or, these apparently better-than-they're-currently-showing players aren't performing to their potential for tactical and/or motivational reasons. Either way this falls at the feet of the manager. While I acknowledge we're a unique club in many respects and there is seemingly some harmonious progress being made behind the scenes/off the pitch, football is ultimately a results business and (based on the reasons above) I have no reason to believe we'll achieve the holy grail of genuinely challenging for the play-offs.

As I've repeated, my biggest frustration in the current plight is where we're at relative to budget. Before you ask, I obviously haven't got the facts to back this up but it's safe to say we're hardly languishing at the bottom of the table on that front. A candidate with a proven ability to over-achieve relative to budget at a similar level would clearly be a major plus. I also think we need a manager with a more ruthless streak, too much loyalty has been shown to certain individuals over the course of the current tenure in my opinion. In terms of playing style, I think you can only pass your way to the top end of this league with a squad full of "proper" footballers which is sadly out of our reach financially. I'd be looking to negate this with a more direct style and a few more big hard lumps to try and get away from the soft centre the current team has shown time and time again. Granted it's not as pretty on the eye but neither is the apparently more attractive passing style currently being served up. I'm not party to the required information that would draw up which candidates fit this bill but expect the Board would be broadly aware.

Not really scared in committing to a position or ludicrous is it.
Actually that is all fairly reasonable to be honest. Thank you for at least engaging properly with the question and giving an idea of they type of manager you’d like to see in place of AA.

I don’t agree on the need to sack Armstrong (I don’t particularly want to repeat myself on why) but in terms of needing to be more pragmatic when it comes to style, I get where you’re coming from. We have a couple of “hard lumps” like Ellis or Hatfield. But maybe we do need a couple more hard bastards, particularly going forward.

It is refreshing to see someone actually say what sort of change they’d like to see, rather than endless complaining about AA (Yarblockos) or just insulting and attacking people (Old Git).
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

Darlofan97
Posts: 5690
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:44 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:51 pm

quakersfan wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:41 pm
The main thing is not get drawn into the bottom of the table and just stay up this season. We need to regroup next season but unless something fundamentally changes next season will be the same. We need to bring some investment to increase the playing budget in ASAP.
Yes, because there are dozens of investors queueing up to invest in a part-time club with limited assets.

I don’t think some really understand what outside investment would mean for the club, or the struggle it would face to attract investment in the first place.

The playing budget is competitive but some of the recruitment hasn’t been, not helped by losing our best players.

Old Git
Posts: 3216
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Old Git » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:16 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:33 pm
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Well this is going to be the most fantastically epic waste of time but, go on there, I'll spell it out for you.

The evidence I have in forming the opinion that a change of manager is required is there for all to see. League position, form table and repeated issues in being able to bring in the correct personnel. The squad is either not as good as many seem to believe it is, or, these apparently better-than-they're-currently-showing players aren't performing to their potential for tactical and/or motivational reasons. Either way this falls at the feet of the manager. While I acknowledge we're a unique club in many respects and there is seemingly some harmonious progress being made behind the scenes/off the pitch, football is ultimately a results business and (based on the reasons above) I have no reason to believe we'll achieve the holy grail of genuinely challenging for the play-offs.

As I've repeated, my biggest frustration in the current plight is where we're at relative to budget. Before you ask, I obviously haven't got the facts to back this up but it's safe to say we're hardly languishing at the bottom of the table on that front. A candidate with a proven ability to over-achieve relative to budget at a similar level would clearly be a major plus. I also think we need a manager with a more ruthless streak, too much loyalty has been shown to certain individuals over the course of the current tenure in my opinion. In terms of playing style, I think you can only pass your way to the top end of this league with a squad full of "proper" footballers which is sadly out of our reach financially. I'd be looking to negate this with a more direct style and a few more big hard lumps to try and get away from the soft centre the current team has shown time and time again. Granted it's not as pretty on the eye but neither is the apparently more attractive passing style currently being served up. I'm not party to the required information that would draw up which candidates fit this bill but expect the Board would be broadly aware.

Not really scared in committing to a position or ludicrous is it.
Actually that is all fairly reasonable to be honest. Thank you for at least engaging properly with the question and giving an idea of they type of manager you’d like to see in place of AA.

I don’t agree on the need to sack Armstrong (I don’t particularly want to repeat myself on why) but in terms of needing to be more pragmatic when it comes to style, I get where you’re coming from. We have a couple of “hard lumps” like Ellis or Hatfield. But maybe we do need a couple more hard bastards, particularly going forward.

It is refreshing to see someone actually say what sort of change they’d like to see, rather than endless complaining about AA (Yarblockos) or just insulting and attacking people (Old Git).
Rich coming from you.
Massive clueless bag of brain farts and reactionary bag of hot air are terms you have used to describe me on this forum in the last 24 hours. You then have the cheek to say I am the one just insulting and attacking people.

Darlogramps
Posts: 6025
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Guiesley Away

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:39 am

Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:33 pm
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Well this is going to be the most fantastically epic waste of time but, go on there, I'll spell it out for you.

The evidence I have in forming the opinion that a change of manager is required is there for all to see. League position, form table and repeated issues in being able to bring in the correct personnel. The squad is either not as good as many seem to believe it is, or, these apparently better-than-they're-currently-showing players aren't performing to their potential for tactical and/or motivational reasons. Either way this falls at the feet of the manager. While I acknowledge we're a unique club in many respects and there is seemingly some harmonious progress being made behind the scenes/off the pitch, football is ultimately a results business and (based on the reasons above) I have no reason to believe we'll achieve the holy grail of genuinely challenging for the play-offs.

As I've repeated, my biggest frustration in the current plight is where we're at relative to budget. Before you ask, I obviously haven't got the facts to back this up but it's safe to say we're hardly languishing at the bottom of the table on that front. A candidate with a proven ability to over-achieve relative to budget at a similar level would clearly be a major plus. I also think we need a manager with a more ruthless streak, too much loyalty has been shown to certain individuals over the course of the current tenure in my opinion. In terms of playing style, I think you can only pass your way to the top end of this league with a squad full of "proper" footballers which is sadly out of our reach financially. I'd be looking to negate this with a more direct style and a few more big hard lumps to try and get away from the soft centre the current team has shown time and time again. Granted it's not as pretty on the eye but neither is the apparently more attractive passing style currently being served up. I'm not party to the required information that would draw up which candidates fit this bill but expect the Board would be broadly aware.

Not really scared in committing to a position or ludicrous is it.
Actually that is all fairly reasonable to be honest. Thank you for at least engaging properly with the question and giving an idea of they type of manager you’d like to see in place of AA.

I don’t agree on the need to sack Armstrong (I don’t particularly want to repeat myself on why) but in terms of needing to be more pragmatic when it comes to style, I get where you’re coming from. We have a couple of “hard lumps” like Ellis or Hatfield. But maybe we do need a couple more hard bastards, particularly going forward.

It is refreshing to see someone actually say what sort of change they’d like to see, rather than endless complaining about AA (Yarblockos) or just insulting and attacking people (Old Git).
Rich coming from you.
Massive clueless bag of brain farts and reactionary bag of hot air are terms you have used to describe me on this forum in the last 24 hours. You then have the cheek to say I am the one just insulting and attacking people.
I’m just pointing out you repeatedly insult people. Like you going after the guy on the new chants thread, or telling theoriginalfatcat to “engage your brain before talking such tripe” and so on.

You do it quite a lot so me giving some back to you is merely reaping what you sow. Don’t hand out insults if you can’t take them yourself Old Git.

Oh and please get a new comeback. Your justification for any of your poor behaviour is that other people do it too, which is just plain childish. Take some responsibility for yourself for once.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

Old Git
Posts: 3216
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Guiesley Away

Post by Old Git » Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:42 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:39 am
Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:33 pm
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Well this is going to be the most fantastically epic waste of time but, go on there, I'll spell it out for you.

The evidence I have in forming the opinion that a change of manager is required is there for all to see. League position, form table and repeated issues in being able to bring in the correct personnel. The squad is either not as good as many seem to believe it is, or, these apparently better-than-they're-currently-showing players aren't performing to their potential for tactical and/or motivational reasons. Either way this falls at the feet of the manager. While I acknowledge we're a unique club in many respects and there is seemingly some harmonious progress being made behind the scenes/off the pitch, football is ultimately a results business and (based on the reasons above) I have no reason to believe we'll achieve the holy grail of genuinely challenging for the play-offs.

As I've repeated, my biggest frustration in the current plight is where we're at relative to budget. Before you ask, I obviously haven't got the facts to back this up but it's safe to say we're hardly languishing at the bottom of the table on that front. A candidate with a proven ability to over-achieve relative to budget at a similar level would clearly be a major plus. I also think we need a manager with a more ruthless streak, too much loyalty has been shown to certain individuals over the course of the current tenure in my opinion. In terms of playing style, I think you can only pass your way to the top end of this league with a squad full of "proper" footballers which is sadly out of our reach financially. I'd be looking to negate this with a more direct style and a few more big hard lumps to try and get away from the soft centre the current team has shown time and time again. Granted it's not as pretty on the eye but neither is the apparently more attractive passing style currently being served up. I'm not party to the required information that would draw up which candidates fit this bill but expect the Board would be broadly aware.

Not really scared in committing to a position or ludicrous is it.
Actually that is all fairly reasonable to be honest. Thank you for at least engaging properly with the question and giving an idea of they type of manager you’d like to see in place of AA.

I don’t agree on the need to sack Armstrong (I don’t particularly want to repeat myself on why) but in terms of needing to be more pragmatic when it comes to style, I get where you’re coming from. We have a couple of “hard lumps” like Ellis or Hatfield. But maybe we do need a couple more hard bastards, particularly going forward.

It is refreshing to see someone actually say what sort of change they’d like to see, rather than endless complaining about AA (Yarblockos) or just insulting and attacking people (Old Git).
Rich coming from you.
Massive clueless bag of brain farts and reactionary bag of hot air are terms you have used to describe me on this forum in the last 24 hours. You then have the cheek to say I am the one just insulting and attacking people.
I’m just pointing out you repeatedly insult people. Like you going after the guy on the new chants thread, or telling theoriginalfatcat to “engage your brain before talking such tripe” and so on.

You do it quite a lot so me giving some back to you is merely reaping what you sow. Don’t hand out insults if you can’t take them yourself Old Git.

Oh and please get a new comeback. Your justification for any of your poor behaviour is that other people do it too, which is just plain childish. Take some responsibility for yourself for once.
I do not repeatedly insult people that is a complete exaggeration. I can take an insult, but what I can’t take your hypocrisy. You say that my justification for my poor behaviour is that other people do it too, but you also say that you giving me some back is fine because I am reaping what I sow.
Well which is it? If you think I am childish then you are condemning yourself by doing the same. As usual you want it both ways and are blind to your own arrogance and bigotry.

Post Reply