New stadium funding

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed May 25, 2022 1:58 pm

Spyman wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 1:26 pm
H1987 wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 4:12 pm
Spyman wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 8:19 pm
Well yes, obviously. And disabled parking, but what I'm getting at is we don't need to bolt on an extra football pitch worth of land for people to leave their cars on, as seems the way for most developments these days.

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The issue in Darlington is that public transport is basically non-existent/useless/expensive (delete as applicable). If you're going to build an out of town stadium, it probably really does need the parking. If it does end up where is being talked about, it's not walkable for 90%+ of the town.
Out of town, yes, it'll need some car parking unfortunately. Maybe we could do something forward thinking and work with the council to provide some decent active travel routes from the town to the ground as well?
There is a sizeable proportion of fans who travel in from the surrounding towns and villages and further afield, so surely a good sized car park is a necessity - I mean we even had to build one at Bishop.
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lo36789
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by lo36789 » Wed May 25, 2022 3:24 pm

I think Spyman makes an important point. Given we want council support on this, you would have to think we need to demonstrate return on investment for them.

People driving to the ground then driving home again afterwards only benefits the football club. If we are going to try and sell that we are an asset to the town, and that local businesses actually benefit from us then we need to demonstrate a plan to actually give them footfall.

There might be some minimum requirements we need to adhere to but there should be significant focus given to integrated transport to the town centre.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed May 25, 2022 3:52 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:24 pm
I think Spyman makes an important point. Given we want council support on this, you would have to think we need to demonstrate return on investment for them.

People driving to the ground then driving home again afterwards only benefits the football club. If we are going to try and sell that we are an asset to the town, and that local businesses actually benefit from us then we need to demonstrate a plan to actually give them footfall.

There might be some minimum requirements we need to adhere to but there should be significant focus given to integrated transport to the town centre.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree Lo. ;)

If you go to a match at Hull you're encouraged to park up in one of the P+R's that catches you as you enter the city then take a bus to the ground, free of charge I seem to remember.

If you go to a match at Sunderland you're encouraged to park up in one of the P+R's that catches you as you enter the city then take a bus to the ground, free of charge I seem to remember.

There's park and rides at York too, with a minimal charge.

To me the modern way of thinking is to get cars NOT to enter into towns and cities where possible, as it clogs up the roads and adds to pollution. Yes, provide good links to those who live in the vicinity but don't force people in by stealth just so they have to park up in town then get a bus out of there again, and then after the match do the same in reverse.

Can you name any clubs that actually do this?
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed May 25, 2022 4:34 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:52 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:24 pm
I think Spyman makes an important point. Given we want council support on this, you would have to think we need to demonstrate return on investment for them.

People driving to the ground then driving home again afterwards only benefits the football club. If we are going to try and sell that we are an asset to the town, and that local businesses actually benefit from us then we need to demonstrate a plan to actually give them footfall.

There might be some minimum requirements we need to adhere to but there should be significant focus given to integrated transport to the town centre.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree Lo. ;)

If you go to a match at Hull you're encouraged to park up in one of the P+R's that catches you as you enter the city then take a bus to the ground, free of charge I seem to remember.

If you go to a match at Sunderland you're encouraged to park up in one of the P+R's that catches you as you enter the city then take a bus to the ground, free of charge I seem to remember.

There's park and rides at York too, with a minimal charge.

To me the modern way of thinking is to get cars NOT to enter into towns and cities where possible, as it clogs up the roads and adds to pollution. Yes, provide good links to those who live in the vicinity but don't force people in by stealth just so they have to park up in town then get a bus out of there again, and then after the match do the same in reverse.

Can you name any clubs that actually do this?

Yes there are park and ride options to the KCOM, but it also has a bloody big car park running the length of Walton st that trebles as the twice a week market and also hosts the Hull fair every year.
I am sure it holds well over 1000 cars at least.
You also have masses of street parking around Walliker st and roads running along both Anlaby rd and Springbank West. Both are a total nightmare to drive on matchdays for both City and Dull FC, somewhat suggesting the park and ride may be underutilised.

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by lo36789 » Wed May 25, 2022 4:57 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:52 pm
To me the modern way of thinking is to get cars NOT to enter into towns and cities where possible, as it clogs up the roads and adds to pollution. Yes, provide good links to those who live in the vicinity but don't force people in by stealth just so they have to park up in town then get a bus out of there again, and then after the match do the same in reverse.
No - driving in wasn't exactly what I had in mind at all - as you say they just clog up roads and cause pollution. Also doesn't give any value if you are just driving in to get a bus to drive back out of town again.

The greatest value to the town is footfall.

Main bus and train routes run into and out of town centres - the town centre should be the interchange where people then get some lunch / go to the pub etc. before changing. Thus the use of the term 'integrated' services - not park and ride!

Liverpool clubs operate their soccerbus from Sandhills station on this principle. The idea is that fans get trains into Sandhills which is a station which is an interchange from Southport, Ormskirk and Kirkby and the south of the city and then get on the 'soccerbus' which is a stagecoach operated shuttle service to Goodison / Anfield.

Given these would be service buses what you really need is a joined up partnership approach. Discounted bus fare with your season ticket (or similar) - or capacity to purchase a ticket which is in to town / to the ground in one rather than two separate journeys.

That then creates commercial partnership opportunities for the club in town in addition as there is a pre and post matchday market in town for the local businesses - and drinking and driving isn't an issue.

It's a bit off topic regardless and it has been put above by others that the planning requirements for Teesside have stipulations around parking per seat / person which go beyond ground grading requirements.

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Spyman
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by Spyman » Wed May 25, 2022 6:06 pm

lo36789 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:52 pm
To me the modern way of thinking is to get cars NOT to enter into towns and cities where possible, as it clogs up the roads and adds to pollution. Yes, provide good links to those who live in the vicinity but don't force people in by stealth just so they have to park up in town then get a bus out of there again, and then after the match do the same in reverse.
No - driving in wasn't exactly what I had in mind at all - as you say they just clog up roads and cause pollution. Also doesn't give any value if you are just driving in to get a bus to drive back out of town again.

The greatest value to the town is footfall.

Main bus and train routes run into and out of town centres - the town centre should be the interchange where people then get some lunch / go to the pub etc. before changing. Thus the use of the term 'integrated' services - not park and ride!

Liverpool clubs operate their soccerbus from Sandhills station on this principle. The idea is that fans get trains into Sandhills which is a station which is an interchange from Southport, Ormskirk and Kirkby and the south of the city and then get on the 'soccerbus' which is a stagecoach operated shuttle service to Goodison / Anfield.

Given these would be service buses what you really need is a joined up partnership approach. Discounted bus fare with your season ticket (or similar) - or capacity to purchase a ticket which is in to town / to the ground in one rather than two separate journeys.

That then creates commercial partnership opportunities for the club in town in addition as there is a pre and post matchday market in town for the local businesses - and drinking and driving isn't an issue.

It's a bit off topic regardless and it has been put above by others that the planning requirements for Teesside have stipulations around parking per seat / person which go beyond ground grading requirements.
You're not going to get footfall from football fans in town unless the football ground is in town (try saying that after a few pints).

My point is that car parking is a huge waste of space (as are cars, mostly). If the club is buying up land for a ground, we don't want to be wasting half of it on storage space for private vehicles that is empty most of the week.

If we need to get people from the town centre to the ground then we should be smarter than just going down the societally engrained notion that everybody needs to drive there.

Yes, some people genuinely will have no option, and I don't have all the answers, but depending on where the location actually is I'm sure there are better ways of getting people to the ground than just building a massive car park.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed May 25, 2022 6:25 pm

Spyman wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:06 pm
lo36789 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:52 pm
To me the modern way of thinking is to get cars NOT to enter into towns and cities where possible, as it clogs up the roads and adds to pollution. Yes, provide good links to those who live in the vicinity but don't force people in by stealth just so they have to park up in town then get a bus out of there again, and then after the match do the same in reverse.
No - driving in wasn't exactly what I had in mind at all - as you say they just clog up roads and cause pollution. Also doesn't give any value if you are just driving in to get a bus to drive back out of town again.

The greatest value to the town is footfall.

Main bus and train routes run into and out of town centres - the town centre should be the interchange where people then get some lunch / go to the pub etc. before changing. Thus the use of the term 'integrated' services - not park and ride!

Liverpool clubs operate their soccerbus from Sandhills station on this principle. The idea is that fans get trains into Sandhills which is a station which is an interchange from Southport, Ormskirk and Kirkby and the south of the city and then get on the 'soccerbus' which is a stagecoach operated shuttle service to Goodison / Anfield.

Given these would be service buses what you really need is a joined up partnership approach. Discounted bus fare with your season ticket (or similar) - or capacity to purchase a ticket which is in to town / to the ground in one rather than two separate journeys.

That then creates commercial partnership opportunities for the club in town in addition as there is a pre and post matchday market in town for the local businesses - and drinking and driving isn't an issue.

It's a bit off topic regardless and it has been put above by others that the planning requirements for Teesside have stipulations around parking per seat / person which go beyond ground grading requirements.
You're not going to get footfall from football fans in town unless the football ground is in town (try saying that after a few pints).

My point is that car parking is a huge waste of space (as are cars, mostly). If the club is buying up land for a ground, we don't want to be wasting half of it on storage space for private vehicles that is empty most of the week.

If we need to get people from the town centre to the ground then we should be smarter than just going down the societally engrained notion that everybody needs to drive there.

Yes, some people genuinely will have no option, and I don't have all the answers, but depending on where the location actually is I'm sure there are better ways of getting people to the ground than just building a massive car park.

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I see your point, but don't underestimate the number of supporters that come from outside of Darlo. There's a lot.
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by bga » Wed May 25, 2022 6:28 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 4:57 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:52 pm
To me the modern way of thinking is to get cars NOT to enter into towns and cities where possible, as it clogs up the roads and adds to pollution. Yes, provide good links to those who live in the vicinity but don't force people in by stealth just so they have to park up in town then get a bus out of there again, and then after the match do the same in reverse.
No - driving in wasn't exactly what I had in mind at all - as you say they just clog up roads and cause pollution. Also doesn't give any value if you are just driving in to get a bus to drive back out of town again.

The greatest value to the town is footfall.

Main bus and train routes run into and out of town centres - the town centre should be the interchange where people then get some lunch / go to the pub etc. before changing. Thus the use of the term 'integrated' services - not park and ride!

Liverpool clubs operate their soccerbus from Sandhills station on this principle. The idea is that fans get trains into Sandhills which is a station which is an interchange from Southport, Ormskirk and Kirkby and the south of the city and then get on the 'soccerbus' which is a stagecoach operated shuttle service to Goodison / Anfield.

Given these would be service buses what you really need is a joined up partnership approach. Discounted bus fare with your season ticket (or similar) - or capacity to purchase a ticket which is in to town / to the ground in one rather than two separate journeys.

That then creates commercial partnership opportunities for the club in town in addition as there is a pre and post matchday market in town for the local businesses - and drinking and driving isn't an issue.

It's a bit off topic regardless and it has been put above by others that the planning requirements for Teesside have stipulations around parking per seat / person which go beyond ground grading requirements.
[/quote

lo I'm not sure I understand some of your logic. You refer to Sandhills as an interchange station. Earlier on you explain "Interchange" is somewhere where people will stop and spend money but that doesn't happen does it at Sandhills as fans just get off the train there and straight onto a bus to the ground? Am I missing something?

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by Lawman3 » Wed May 25, 2022 6:52 pm

When we moved to the Arena I did wonder if there were any plans to put a train station close by - the Bishop to Saltburn line runs very close to the ground (though even closer to Billy Welch's gypsy site). Assuming a train ride would be less than a fiver, it would have stopped people grumbling about paying that much to park at the ground on match days!

I don't know the proposed location of the new stadium, but if it is close enough to an existing train line I wonder if a new station would be considered, or whether it would be a non-starter (after all Teesside Airport has a station in name only that doesn't seem to be capable of being used).
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed May 25, 2022 6:56 pm

I'm not sure about Lo's reasoning - it occurs to me that there are two types of football stadium, In town and out of town and each have their own pros and cons regarding fans sloshing around the town centre, but you can't have it both ways.

When we were at Feethams I often used to pop into Binns, Ron's guitar shop and Greggs, but after we moved to The Arena I never did, because I wasn't near the town centre and wasn't going to make a special trip in.
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Spyman
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by Spyman » Wed May 25, 2022 7:24 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:06 pm
lo36789 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:52 pm
To me the modern way of thinking is to get cars NOT to enter into towns and cities where possible, as it clogs up the roads and adds to pollution. Yes, provide good links to those who live in the vicinity but don't force people in by stealth just so they have to park up in town then get a bus out of there again, and then after the match do the same in reverse.
No - driving in wasn't exactly what I had in mind at all - as you say they just clog up roads and cause pollution. Also doesn't give any value if you are just driving in to get a bus to drive back out of town again.

The greatest value to the town is footfall.

Main bus and train routes run into and out of town centres - the town centre should be the interchange where people then get some lunch / go to the pub etc. before changing. Thus the use of the term 'integrated' services - not park and ride!

Liverpool clubs operate their soccerbus from Sandhills station on this principle. The idea is that fans get trains into Sandhills which is a station which is an interchange from Southport, Ormskirk and Kirkby and the south of the city and then get on the 'soccerbus' which is a stagecoach operated shuttle service to Goodison / Anfield.

Given these would be service buses what you really need is a joined up partnership approach. Discounted bus fare with your season ticket (or similar) - or capacity to purchase a ticket which is in to town / to the ground in one rather than two separate journeys.

That then creates commercial partnership opportunities for the club in town in addition as there is a pre and post matchday market in town for the local businesses - and drinking and driving isn't an issue.

It's a bit off topic regardless and it has been put above by others that the planning requirements for Teesside have stipulations around parking per seat / person which go beyond ground grading requirements.
You're not going to get footfall from football fans in town unless the football ground is in town (try saying that after a few pints).

My point is that car parking is a huge waste of space (as are cars, mostly). If the club is buying up land for a ground, we don't want to be wasting half of it on storage space for private vehicles that is empty most of the week.

If we need to get people from the town centre to the ground then we should be smarter than just going down the societally engrained notion that everybody needs to drive there.

Yes, some people genuinely will have no option, and I don't have all the answers, but depending on where the location actually is I'm sure there are better ways of getting people to the ground than just building a massive car park.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
I see your point, but don't underestimate the number of supporters that come from outside of Darlo. There's a lot.
Yes, there is a lot.

Doesn't change my point though, that just going along with the lazy "everyone must drive" narrative doesn't have to be the way.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by spen666 » Wed May 25, 2022 7:31 pm

Lawman3 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:52 pm
When we moved to the Arena I did wonder if there were any plans to put a train station close by - the Bishop to Saltburn line runs very close to the ground (though even closer to Billy Welch's gypsy site). Assuming a train ride would be less than a fiver, it would have stopped people grumbling about paying that much to park at the ground on match days!

I don't know the proposed location of the new stadium, but if it is close enough to an existing train line I wonder if a new station would be considered, or whether it would be a non-starter (after all Teesside Airport has a station in name only that doesn't seem to be capable of being used).
The cost of a building a rail station is prohibitively expensive, then there would be the problem of the infrequency of service. Even Sunderland only get infrequent trains stopping at Sunderland Station on a matchday ( travelling from South to north)

Horden Station cost >£10million according to Wikipedia

At Coventry, they have a station but don't allow trains to stop at ground on a Coventry City match day

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by lo36789 » Wed May 25, 2022 7:34 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:56 pm
I'm not sure about Lo's reasoning - it occurs to me that there are two types of football stadium, In town and out of town and each have their own pros and cons regarding fans sloshing around the town centre, but you can't have it both ways.

When we were at Feethams I often used to pop into Binns, Ron's guitar shop and Greggs, but after we moved to The Arena I never did, because I wasn't near the town centre and wasn't going to make a special trip in.
I don't think the only alternative is if out of town you therefore need to build a huge amount of new adjacent car parking capacity.

First priority should be how to make it as easy as possible for people to get there via public transport (or self-powered ideally). That could mean using the town centre as an interchange, or alternative 'hubs' - where people can slosh in between connections.

Where a car does need to be on the road how do you avoid a situation where you are just covering more soil with tarmac - which isn't used 95% of the time. Could you use existing car parking that is along the bypass for instance with a shuttle service (eg. Blackwell, Arena, Morton Park).

I don't know how that would fit with local planning restrictions mind. Would a remote car park with a shuttle meet their expectations or do the spaces per seat have to be within a certain distance of the venue.

Such a focus on an adjacent car park feels like it encourages a behaviour which should be discouraged - but you obviously need to make the ground accessible.

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by bga » Wed May 25, 2022 7:36 pm

lo I'm not sure I understand some of your logic. You refer to Sandhills as an interchange station. Earlier on you explain "Interchange" is somewhere where people will stop and spend money but that doesn't happen does it at Sandhills as fans just get off the train there and straight onto a bus to the ground? Am I missing something?

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by lo36789 » Wed May 25, 2022 7:42 pm

bga wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:36 pm
lo I'm not sure I understand some of your logic. You refer to Sandhills as an interchange station. Earlier on you explain "Interchange" is somewhere where people will stop and spend money but that doesn't happen does it at Sandhills as fans just get off the train there and straight onto a bus to the ground? Am I missing something?
The point is an integrated public transport system so people don't drive to games.

How do you make it where a ground is 2/3 miles out from a city centre easily accessible with public transport.

Not using park and ride systems and allowing people to us public transport the whole way so you reduce the number of cars on the road.

For those who get into the city centre there are equally good bus routes (14/17) which go past the two grounds as well.

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by H1987 » Wed May 25, 2022 9:35 pm

spen666 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:31 pm
Lawman3 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:52 pm
When we moved to the Arena I did wonder if there were any plans to put a train station close by - the Bishop to Saltburn line runs very close to the ground (though even closer to Billy Welch's gypsy site). Assuming a train ride would be less than a fiver, it would have stopped people grumbling about paying that much to park at the ground on match days!

I don't know the proposed location of the new stadium, but if it is close enough to an existing train line I wonder if a new station would be considered, or whether it would be a non-starter (after all Teesside Airport has a station in name only that doesn't seem to be capable of being used).
The cost of a building a rail station is prohibitively expensive, then there would be the problem of the infrequency of service. Even Sunderland only get infrequent trains stopping at Sunderland Station on a matchday ( travelling from South to north)

Horden Station cost >£10million according to Wikipedia

At Coventry, they have a station but don't allow trains to stop at ground on a Coventry City match day
Yeah, I remember reading about that. The reasoning for that is something utterly barmy that the existing trains couldn't cope with the numbers who would want to use it. So instead of putting an extra train or two on, they just don't stop (don't get me started on the wider mismanagement of our railways, I'll be here all day...)

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed May 25, 2022 9:49 pm

I'm sure
lo36789 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:42 pm
bga wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:36 pm
lo I'm not sure I understand some of your logic. You refer to Sandhills as an interchange station. Earlier on you explain "Interchange" is somewhere where people will stop and spend money but that doesn't happen does it at Sandhills as fans just get off the train there and straight onto a bus to the ground? Am I missing something?
The point is an integrated public transport system so people don't drive to games.

How do you make it where a ground is 2/3 miles out from a city centre easily accessible with public transport.

Not using park and ride systems and allowing people to us public transport the whole way so you reduce the number of cars on the road.

For those who get into the city centre there are equally good bus routes (14/17) which go past the two grounds as well.
I don't know Lo, this is Darlington don't forget, we're not talking big city/big club here. I think that most people driving in from the towns and villages that lie North, South, East, and West of Darlo don't want to be messing on with park and rides and suchlike - they just want to be able to watch a lower league football match with minimal hassle, either by street parking or by a nearby car park.

I include myself in this btw.
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by H1987 » Wed May 25, 2022 9:54 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:42 pm
bga wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:36 pm
lo I'm not sure I understand some of your logic. You refer to Sandhills as an interchange station. Earlier on you explain "Interchange" is somewhere where people will stop and spend money but that doesn't happen does it at Sandhills as fans just get off the train there and straight onto a bus to the ground? Am I missing something?
The point is an integrated public transport system so people don't drive to games.

How do you make it where a ground is 2/3 miles out from a city centre easily accessible with public transport.

Not using park and ride systems and allowing people to us public transport the whole way so you reduce the number of cars on the road.

For those who get into the city centre there are equally good bus routes (14/17) which go past the two grounds as well.
To be honest, though, you've next to no chance of achieving that in Darlington. If you look at the arterial roads of the town, basically none of them (but particularly North Road and Woodlands Road) are really fit for purpose in a modern large town. They're too narrow so even if (and i'd really like to think we should be trying to do this yesterday) you managed to get a good fleet of regular electric buses priced sensibly (ala TFL), because of the horrendous traffic they would just end up stuck. They would then be perceived as unreliable so everyone opts to drive. This then continues the vicious cycle of everyone driving, which causes the traffic in the first place... the football club really just has to live with the reality when planning a new location. I'd love us to push people to not drive to the match and to provide an alternative, but in reality, there isn't one. I hated the Arena for not being really walkable and as noted above, it just stopped me from going to the town as much on a matchday. If you build a stadium at West Park or Skerningham, there's absolutely d*ck all chance that anyone other than a very small minority is going to use public transport to get to it unless we have a major revolution in terms of how public transport is run in the local area.

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Re: New stadium funding

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed May 25, 2022 11:08 pm

Lawman3 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:52 pm
When we moved to the Arena I did wonder if there were any plans to put a train station close by - the Bishop to Saltburn line runs very close to the ground (though even closer to Billy Welch's gypsy site). Assuming a train ride would be less than a fiver, it would have stopped people grumbling about paying that much to park at the ground on match days!

I don't know the proposed location of the new stadium, but if it is close enough to an existing train line I wonder if a new station would be considered, or whether it would be a non-starter (after all Teesside Airport has a station in name only that doesn't seem to be capable of being used).
I remember going to Reynolds first fans forum after he had taken over at the end of the season. There was only 50 or so fans at the forum, but Reynolds was already talking about building a stadium on Neasham Road and he was talking about building a railway station on Neasham Road by the bridge. But I agree it would bee prohibitively expensive and I can't imagine there would be the finances in place to consider building such a structure.

lo36789
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by lo36789 » Thu May 26, 2022 3:16 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:49 pm
I think that most people driving in from the towns and villages that lie North, South, East, and West of Darlo don't want to be messing on with park and rides and suchlike - they just want to be able to watch a lower league football match with minimal hassle, either by street parking or by a nearby car park.
The onus isn't and shouldn't be on the individuals tbh. That is why it's down to good planning from the outset. Individuals will always choose what they do based on a product of convenience and cost. Lower cost and higher convenience being the obvious sweet spot.

Which ever way you look at it new developments should be seeking to reduce their carbon footprint and their impact of biodiversity losses wherever they can. The council will be measured on this eventually - and access to finance will increasingly be so as well.

Build a car park just feels like a bit of a lazy default setting.
Last edited by lo36789 on Thu May 26, 2022 6:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

jjljks
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by jjljks » Thu May 26, 2022 5:17 am

Lo36789 is right, DBC & their "planners" have failed us spectacularly over the years with lazy thinking. TBH Blackwell Meadows is the best of a bad crop of possible locations on the edge of town. The other alternatives require brownfield redevelopment, say of the old cattle mart or back of Northgate or even Valley street would be prohibitively expensive for the club alone, so best we can hope for is a York LNER style of stadium as tenants. Surprised Ben Houchen hasn't announced us moving to Teesside airport - lots of empty tarmac there to park on & a record-breaking low footfall railway statiin already.

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Quaker85
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by Quaker85 » Thu May 26, 2022 8:13 am

jjljks wrote:Lo36789 is right, DBC & their "planners" have failed us spectacularly over the years with lazy thinking. TBH Blackwell Meadows is the best of a bad crop of possible locations on the edge of town. The other alternatives require brownfield redevelopment, say of the old cattle mart or back of Northgate or even Valley street would be prohibitively expensive for the club alone, so best we can hope for is a York LNER style of stadium as tenants. Surprised Ben Houchen hasn't announced us moving to Teesside airport - lots of empty tarmac there to park on & a record-breaking low footfall railway statiin already.
Plus a ready made airport for the jet setters to fly in and watch us play! Kill two birds with one stone. Genius thinking BH Image


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Spyman
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by Spyman » Thu May 26, 2022 8:31 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:49 pm

I don't know Lo, this is Darlington don't forget, we're not talking big city/big club here. I think that most people driving in from the towns and villages that lie North, South, East, and West of Darlo don't want to be messing on with park and rides and suchlike - they just want to be able to watch a lower league football match with minimal hassle, either by street parking or by a nearby car park.

I include myself in this btw.
And herein lies the problem. Without wanting to take this too far off topic, as a society we pander too much to what people 'want' and we encourage car reliance out of sheer laziness to consider other options. If we're going to tackle this then we have to start somewhere and stop simply building developments that are designed around cars with no safe or viable alternatives.

Small clubs like ours should be leading the way in this sort of thing. We're a community owned club who are small and local enough to roll something out and tweak it as we go. It's precisely because we're not massive that we can have a go at doing something like this.

Look at the PR Forest Green get for their efforts to be sustainable. There's no reason, particularly with the strong leadership we have, why we couldn't follow their lead.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu May 26, 2022 8:51 am

Spyman wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 8:31 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:49 pm

I don't know Lo, this is Darlington don't forget, we're not talking big city/big club here. I think that most people driving in from the towns and villages that lie North, South, East, and West of Darlo don't want to be messing on with park and rides and suchlike - they just want to be able to watch a lower league football match with minimal hassle, either by street parking or by a nearby car park.

I include myself in this btw.
And herein lies the problem. Without wanting to take this too far off topic, as a society we pander too much to what people 'want' and we encourage car reliance out of sheer laziness to consider other options. If we're going to tackle this then we have to start somewhere and stop simply building developments that are designed around cars with no safe or viable alternatives.

Small clubs like ours should be leading the way in this sort of thing. We're a community owned club who are small and local enough to roll something out and tweak it as we go. It's precisely because we're not massive that we can have a go at doing something like this.

Look at the PR Forest Green get for their efforts to be sustainable. There's no reason, particularly with the strong leadership we have, why we couldn't follow their lead.
Herein does lie the problem Spyman. I admire and share your thoughts about the environment and realise you've drifted over onto the wider picture, but in reference to us - stick a new stadium on the outskirts of town, then not supply adequate parking to service it - is a recipe for disaster.

I think people are getting carried away here! This is Darlo, not some huge Man City like stadium with gazillions of fans rocking up. Make it too hard or too expensive to turn up and people will drift away, going to a match is something we all choose to do for pleasure don't forget.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.
The Blackwell Meadows clock is wrong all day every day.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: New stadium funding

Post by don'tbuythesun » Thu May 26, 2022 9:20 am

Yesterday I was reliving my 1977 trip to Rome to watch the reds win their first European Cup. A 76 hour round trip by train-that was "hard"!!! I'm sure practicalities will be part of any new stadium plan and presumably there would be fan consultation when things are clearer?

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