Retained list

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jjljks
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Re: Retained list

Post by jjljks » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:04 pm

Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:29 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:27 pm
I'd sign O'Neill any day of the week on a 1 year deal with an option, no farting about with trials. In any case, he might have his sights set higher than us.
Totally agree with this. Get him in!
Yes, Beck has had his day but Ty O'Neill has his best days ahead of him & could link up well with Hazell

CrazyDarlo
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Re: Retained list

Post by CrazyDarlo » Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:09 pm

jjljks wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:04 pm
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:29 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:27 pm
I'd sign O'Neill any day of the week on a 1 year deal with an option, no farting about with trials. In any case, he might have his sights set higher than us.
Totally agree with this. Get him in!
Yes, Beck has had his day but Ty O'Neill has his best days ahead of him & could link up well with Hazell
Had his day? He’s 28, he was our best centre forward in a team that finished in the NLN play offs and has clearly improved since then. O’Neil had a good spell 2 years ago but has shown little since. They’re not even comparable.

shildonlad
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Re: Retained list

Post by shildonlad » Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:11 pm

darloed19 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:30 pm
Peterborough Sports making some quality signings
Could all be for nowt if there ground does not get a major upgrade
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

Old Git
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Re: Retained list

Post by Old Git » Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:30 pm

CrazyDarlo wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:09 pm
jjljks wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:04 pm
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:29 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:27 pm
I'd sign O'Neill any day of the week on a 1 year deal with an option, no farting about with trials. In any case, he might have his sights set higher than us.
Totally agree with this. Get him in!
Yes, Beck has had his day but Ty O'Neill has his best days ahead of him & could link up well with Hazell
Had his day? He’s 28, he was our best centre forward in a team that finished in the NLN play offs and has clearly improved since then. O’Neil had a good spell 2 years ago but has shown little since. They’re not even comparable.
“Clearly improved ” Why do you think that ?

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Re: Retained list

Post by CrazyDarlo » Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:53 pm

Old Git wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:30 pm
CrazyDarlo wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:09 pm
jjljks wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:04 pm
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:29 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:27 pm
I'd sign O'Neill any day of the week on a 1 year deal with an option, no farting about with trials. In any case, he might have his sights set higher than us.
Totally agree with this. Get him in!
Yes, Beck has had his day but Ty O'Neill has his best days ahead of him & could link up well with Hazell
Had his day? He’s 28, he was our best centre forward in a team that finished in the NLN play offs and has clearly improved since then. O’Neil had a good spell 2 years ago but has shown little since. They’re not even comparable.
“Clearly improved ” Why do you think that ?
Because he’s been playing two divisions higher and was a key player in their promotion to the EFL.

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Re: Retained list

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:44 pm

CrazyDarlo wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:53 pm
Old Git wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:30 pm
CrazyDarlo wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:09 pm
jjljks wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:04 pm
Wijnhard's_Schlong wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:29 pm


Totally agree with this. Get him in!
Yes, Beck has had his day but Ty O'Neill has his best days ahead of him & could link up well with Hazell
Had his day? He’s 28, he was our best centre forward in a team that finished in the NLN play offs and has clearly improved since then. O’Neil had a good spell 2 years ago but has shown little since. They’re not even comparable.
“Clearly improved ” Why do you think that ?
Because he’s been playing two divisions higher and was a key player in their promotion to the EFL.
You make a good argument for Beck being better.

However I think O'Neill is better. My argument for O'Neill being better than Beck is as follows...he just is.
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Darlopartisan
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Re: Retained list

Post by Darlopartisan » Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:02 pm

Beck or O’Neill, goals per game ratio, I’ve no idea on that, but one of you stat guys will know.
So which has to best ratio, for Darlo that is ?

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Spyman
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Re: Retained list

Post by Spyman » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:14 am

Darlopartisan wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:02 pm
Beck or O’Neill, goals per game ratio, I’ve no idea on that, but one of you stat guys will know.
So which has to best ratio, for Darlo that is ?
For Darlo:
O'Neill - 10 goals in 43 appearances (23%)
Beck - 19 goals in 53 appearances (36%)

Career total
O'Neill - 10 goals in 51 appearances (20% - he's never scored for anyone but us)
Beck - 62 goals in 285 appearances (22%)

Worth noting that prior to joining us, Beck had 13 in 85 (15%) whereas since joining (and leaving) us his record is 49/200 - nearly 25%.

So on paper, Beck's record stands above O'Neill - But Beck was a slow starter in terms of goal-scoring and had made around 100 career appearances before he really started scoring regularly so there's every chance O'Neill could become a more regular scorer with a couple more seasons of experience. There's also every chance he won't.

You can also factor in the players they played with providing more opportunities etc so it's impossible to draw a straight comparison.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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lo36789
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Re: Retained list

Post by lo36789 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:59 am

If Beck were available it's a no brainer. Might be an over significant drop though - notice Gateshead have lost both their strikers this summer already - not sure he suits Williamson's preferred style of play mind.

Defenders hate playing against him regardless of what he scores. He causes problems in the box because he is holding, pulling and pushing defenders and goalkeepers all over.

He gets it back as well but that is fine game and the outcome is the same he 'occupies' defenders and goalkeepers both physically and mentally and it definitely creates space for others.

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Spyman
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Re: Retained list

Post by Spyman » Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:00 am

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:59 am
If Beck were available it's a no brainer. Might be an over significant drop though - notice Gateshead have lost both their strikers this summer already - not sure he suits Williamson's preferred style of play mind.

Defenders hate playing against him regardless of what he scores. He causes problems in the box because he is holding, pulling and pushing defenders and goalkeepers all over.

He gets it back as well but that is fine game and the outcome is the same he 'occupies' defenders and goalkeepers both physically and mentally and it definitely creates space for others.
Never mind whether he suits Gateshead's style of play- that's made me thing, he's not really Armstrong's style of forward is he? We've always tended to play with smaller, trickier forwards since Armstrong came in. Campbell, Charman, Donawa - we've often had a more physical striker in the squad, but I wouldn't say Armstrong's plan A particularly involves that type of player.

Personally I think Beck will get offers to stay full-time anyway, so its a moot point.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

Darlo_CR
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Re: Retained list

Post by Darlo_CR » Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:42 pm

Spyman wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:00 am
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:59 am
If Beck were available it's a no brainer. Might be an over significant drop though - notice Gateshead have lost both their strikers this summer already - not sure he suits Williamson's preferred style of play mind.

Defenders hate playing against him regardless of what he scores. He causes problems in the box because he is holding, pulling and pushing defenders and goalkeepers all over.

He gets it back as well but that is fine game and the outcome is the same he 'occupies' defenders and goalkeepers both physically and mentally and it definitely creates space for others.
Never mind whether he suits Gateshead's style of play- that's made me thing, he's not really Armstrong's style of forward is he? We've always tended to play with smaller, trickier forwards since Armstrong came in. Campbell, Charman, Donawa - we've often had a more physical striker in the squad, but I wouldn't say Armstrong's plan A particularly involves that type of player.

Personally I think Beck will get offers to stay full-time anyway, so its a moot point.
You could probably argue that Cassidy was a bit like Beck in terms of a target man, him and Charman worked well together so that could potentially happen again with Beck and Hazel?

Old Git
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Re: Retained list

Post by Old Git » Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:05 pm

Darlo_CR wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:42 pm
Spyman wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:00 am
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:59 am
If Beck were available it's a no brainer. Might be an over significant drop though - notice Gateshead have lost both their strikers this summer already - not sure he suits Williamson's preferred style of play mind.

Defenders hate playing against him regardless of what he scores. He causes problems in the box because he is holding, pulling and pushing defenders and goalkeepers all over.

He gets it back as well but that is fine game and the outcome is the same he 'occupies' defenders and goalkeepers both physically and mentally and it definitely creates space for others.
Never mind whether he suits Gateshead's style of play- that's made me thing, he's not really Armstrong's style of forward is he? We've always tended to play with smaller, trickier forwards since Armstrong came in. Campbell, Charman, Donawa - we've often had a more physical striker in the squad, but I wouldn't say Armstrong's plan A particularly involves that type of player.

Personally I think Beck will get offers to stay full-time anyway, so its a moot point.
You could probably argue that Cassidy was a bit like Beck in terms of a target man, him and Charman worked well together so that could potentially happen again with Beck and Hazel?
Might as well have just kept Cassidy if you want a target man.

onewayup
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Re: Retained list

Post by onewayup » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:32 pm

O'Neil is quality when fit and in the right frame of mind , I personally believe that giving him a full preseason and the chance to prove himself would pay off in the long term, hes only what 23,ish,
We all lauded him whe was first loaned to us he surely has a lot to offer, if he's coached in mind and fitness. Just my opinion, other may think differently.

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D_F_C
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Re: Retained list

Post by D_F_C » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:38 pm

Beck > O’Neill (by quite a decent margin IMO), however I’d be looking at both rather than 1 or the other.


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jjljks
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Re: Retained list

Post by jjljks » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:02 pm

Totally agree Beck has nothing to prove given his history, but we need to be bringing on young players who may then attract bigger clubs in with a transfer fee. O'Neill has the potential to do this if he can get a good understanding with the rest of our attack. Sorry, but it is where the club is at the moment and selling on players to generate revenue, until we get our own ground.

lo36789
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Re: Retained list

Post by lo36789 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:15 pm

jjljks wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Totally agree Beck has nothing to prove given his history, but we need to be bringing on young players who may then attract bigger clubs in with a transfer fee.
If only it were that easy. We need the best players possible within our budget. We won't be funding a ground through the odd £20k-£50k fee. Our only serious windfall potential is from an FA Cup run.

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Re: Retained list

Post by jjljks » Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:53 am

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:15 pm
jjljks wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Totally agree Beck has nothing to prove given his history, but we need to be bringing on young players who may then attract bigger clubs in with a transfer fee.
If only it were that easy. We need the best players possible within our budget. We won't be funding a ground through the odd £20k-£50k fee. Our only serious windfall potential is from an FA Cup run.
Selling on players is only one string to our bow in terms of revenue. BTB, 500 club, season tickets, attendance, shop, adverts, 50/50 draws are all very important to our income. The club needs every p & £ we can generate.

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Re: Retained list

Post by lo36789 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:25 am

Its a windfall and it gives breathing space but it shouldn't MENA we don't sign players who are good enough, fit in with what we need because they don't have a sell on value.

Reality is Beck has many options to stay full time in NLN even if he doesn't get fixed up elsewhere.

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Re: Retained list

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:57 am

Many options to stay full time in the NLN?

Does he? How do you know this?

Or are you just guessing again?
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AndyPark
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Re: Retained list

Post by AndyPark » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:07 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:25 am
Its a windfall and it gives breathing space but it shouldn't MENA we don't sign players who are good enough, fit in with what we need because they don't have a sell on value.

Reality is Beck has many options to stay full time in NLN even if he doesn't get fixed up elsewhere.
As he's Sunderland based, I'd imagine he will want to stay in the North-East area.

I think it'll be between us & South Shields where he ends up, can't see him moving to Spennymoor who've already got Taylor/Thewlis/Preston up top.

So wonder what other NLN teams you think he will end up at?

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Re: Retained list

Post by lo36789 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:51 am

Pretty much as you have said of course it's a guess - isnt that what all transfer rumour and supposition is?

I just think there are sufficient full time sides who Beck would be more than good enough for.

Halifax, York, Gateshead, Spennymoor and South Shields are the obvious ones to me.

I'll be honest I actually thought he was Yorkshire based so clubs like Altrincham and Buxton wouldn't have been out of reach either - if he is Sunderland makes that a little unlikely.

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Re: Retained list

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:56 am

jjljks wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Totally agree Beck has nothing to prove given his history
Football doesn't work like that IMO. It's what he can do now that matters, I mean Gabbiadini has nothing to prove given his history but we wouldn't want to sign him up.

Personally I'm not sure about Beck, I'm not sure he was a big hit at York.
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Re: Retained list

Post by AndyPark » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:12 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:51 am
Pretty much as you have said of course it's a guess - isnt that what all transfer rumour and supposition is?

I just think there are sufficient full time sides who Beck would be more than good enough for.

Halifax, York, Gateshead, Spennymoor and South Shields are the obvious ones to me.

I'll be honest I actually thought he was Yorkshire based so clubs like Altrincham and Buxton wouldn't have been out of reach either - if he is Sunderland makes that a little unlikely.
I was just going by his Twitter handle which shows it as Sunderland.

Personally, I'd love to have him here and hopefully we can see that happening.

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Re: Retained list

Post by Yorkfan » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:28 pm

Beck was average at York, nothing more. He played his part but didn't score anywhere near enough, although Watsons tactics were probably to blame

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Re: Retained list

Post by Beano » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:55 pm

AndyPark wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:07 am
lo36789 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:25 am
Its a windfall and it gives breathing space but it shouldn't MENA we don't sign players who are good enough, fit in with what we need because they don't have a sell on value.

Reality is Beck has many options to stay full time in NLN even if he doesn't get fixed up elsewhere.
As he's Sunderland based, I'd imagine he will want to stay in the North-East area.

I think it'll be between us & South Shields where he ends up, can't see him moving to Spennymoor who've already got Taylor/Thewlis/Preston up top.

So wonder what other NLN teams you think he will end up at?
I’d also love him to come back but I’m not sure Alun is looking for that style of play. For me, Beck and Hazel up front could be potentially excellent.

Spendy have arguably a better version of Beck in Taylor, the best player in the division in my opinion, so would only sign him to stop rivals. York could have signed him if they wanted and haven’t but Gateshead have lost their best two forwards for their release clauses and Shields have money to burn.

It’ll be interesting to see where he pitches up.

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