Hybrid next season

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Darlopartisan
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Hybrid next season

Post by Darlopartisan » Thu May 12, 2022 9:28 pm

So who do we think will be our full time players, or are they still to join?

LoidLucan
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by LoidLucan » Thu May 12, 2022 9:51 pm

None of our players will be training full-time. An additional training night is being introduced.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Darlopartisan » Fri May 13, 2022 7:20 am

How’s that Hybrid then ? Just an extra training night? Or have I missed something.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Fri May 13, 2022 7:32 am

Darlopartisan wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 7:20 am
How’s that Hybrid then ? Just an extra training night? Or have I missed something.
Happy to be corrected, but I don't think AA has referred to it as being 'hybrid'. In my recollections of his interviews he's always referred to an additional training night. Maybe the term 'hybrid' was introduced by someone not directly involved.

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Makka Pakka
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Makka Pakka » Fri May 13, 2022 8:22 am

From the Farsley programme notes of David Johnston:

"We will move next year to a hybrid model and increase training and fitness sessions to match."
"At a meeting held at the Grammar School on Friday last - Mr Phillip Wood M.A., in the chair - it was resolved to form an Association Football Club for Darlington and neighbourhood. The opinions of those present were so unanimous as to the desirability of this step, that a committee was formed to complete the organisation of the club, and Mr Craven, 17, Garden Street, was appointed secretary pro tem." - The Northern Echo, Monday 23rd July 1883

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri May 13, 2022 8:43 am

An extra training session must help. How many times over the last few seasons have we seen the full time sides outperform us with better tactics and better preset routines, and also look fitter than us in the closing stages of matches?

(Rhetorical question) ;)
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Spyman
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Spyman » Fri May 13, 2022 10:34 am

Makka Pakka wrote:From the Farsley programme notes of David Johnston:

"We will move next year to a hybrid model and increase training and fitness sessions to match."
Maybe some of the training will take place on Zoom?

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by tdk1 » Fri May 13, 2022 10:58 am

DJ talks about this in his boost the budget interview. It doesn't sound hybrid to me - they're adding in a third training session, but it will only be used when needed and the players' contracts have been drawn so they only get paid for the extra training when it's used.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri May 13, 2022 11:15 am

tdk1 wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 10:58 am
DJ talks about this in his boost the budget interview. It doesn't sound hybrid to me - they're adding in a third training session, but it will only be used when needed and the players' contracts have been drawn so they only get paid for the extra training when it's used.
If we get into 7th place near the end of next season 🤞- I hope it's not pulled then :silent:
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Darlopartisan » Fri May 13, 2022 12:26 pm

In the Danny Rose interview he mentioned “Hybrid “ several times , I just assumed it was full time/part time, rather than an extra training session, if that’s the case,well it’s just an extra training session.

lo36789
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by lo36789 » Fri May 13, 2022 2:12 pm

tdk1 wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 10:58 am
DJ talks about this in his boost the budget interview. It doesn't sound hybrid to me - they're adding in a third training session, but it will only be used when needed and the players' contracts have been drawn so they only get paid for the extra training when it's used.
That makes some sense. Suggests players will effectively remain on terms for normal training with an extra provision where there is extra training.

The terms (which can't be changed) of a player contract are pretty vague.

"The Player agrees to play to the best of his ability in all football matches in which he is selected to play for the Club and to attend at any reasonable place and time for the purpose of or in connection with training as a football player in accordance with instructions given by any duly authorised official of the Club. Any special arrangements between the Club and the Player shall be agreed in writing between the parties hereto."

The only editable part is a section around 'other financial provisions'.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by tdk1 » Fri May 13, 2022 3:20 pm

I suppose it's possible that the management and players are describing this casually within the club as "hybrid", and that's seeping out into interviews, which might create a bit of confusion. DJ seemed pretty clear on it though.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri May 13, 2022 3:53 pm

We do need to a hybrid system sometime soon, whether now is the right time or not, is up too debate. But going forward we do need to move to a hybrid system, as a stepping stone to becoming full-time. If we remain part-time then we are always going to struggle to struggle to be competitive.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by lo36789 » Sat May 14, 2022 2:18 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 3:53 pm
We do need to a hybrid system sometime soon, whether now is the right time or not, is up too debate. But going forward we do need to move to a hybrid system, as a stepping stone to becoming full-time. If we remain part-time then we are always going to struggle to struggle to be competitive.
Is that because because? My position on that debate is that we might want to, but we never need to. It is undeniable that being full time means you finish in a higher position. The top 5 this season = 5 FT sides - I think?

Chester had somewhat different fortunes. Spennymoor suggested a move to full time when recruiting Jonno and Morley. We also have an ambitious Buxton side joining us plus South Shields and Macclesfield to come.

That indicates to get in the playoffs moving forward you will have to be full time. The reality is until we double (and some) our revenues we cannot afford that.

The only thing we need to do is remain financially sustainable. We want to be as competitive as we can be within those constraints.

The regulatory landscape of football could change which could impact things. The Premier League are actively fighting against the new regulator - which suggests they fear the change will upset the status quo. If there is enhanced scrutiny of ownership, if financial sustainability becomes codified, if that cascades and if fans become more powerful within clubs governance structures will we end up in a relatively competitive position anyway?

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sat May 14, 2022 8:10 am

lo36789 wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:18 am
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 3:53 pm
We do need to a hybrid system sometime soon, whether now is the right time or not, is up too debate. But going forward we do need to move to a hybrid system, as a stepping stone to becoming full-time. If we remain part-time then we are always going to struggle to struggle to be competitive.
Is that because because? My position on that debate is that we might want to, but we never need to. It is undeniable that being full time means you finish in a higher position. The top 5 this season = 5 FT sides - I think?

Chester had somewhat different fortunes. Spennymoor suggested a move to full time when recruiting Jonno and Morley. We also have an ambitious Buxton side joining us plus South Shields and Macclesfield to come.

That indicates to get in the playoffs moving forward you will have to be full time. The reality is until we double (and some) our revenues we cannot afford that.

The only thing we need to do is remain financially sustainable. We want to be as competitive as we can be within those constraints.

The regulatory landscape of football could change which could impact things. The Premier League are actively fighting against the new regulator - which suggests they fear the change will upset the status quo. If there is enhanced scrutiny of ownership, if financial sustainability becomes codified, if that cascades and if fans become more powerful within clubs governance structures will we end up in a relatively competitive position anyway?
I'm, not sure that the majority of our fans will accept just drifting along in the Conference North. I don't have the answer as to how we move forward, but I feel that moving to a hybrid system has to be a step that we need to move too soon, in order to turning full-time sometime in the near future. Staying part time for the foreseeable as far as i am concerned is not an option for our club.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by lo36789 » Sat May 14, 2022 9:05 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:10 am
I'm, not sure that the majority of our fans will accept just drifting along in the Conference North.
Take it that is based simply on entitlement? The fans are the owners at the end of the day - so it is up to that majority to fund what they deem acceptable.

In reality less than 200 fans actually boost the boost - so they might not like it but there is a significant majority who have to accept that they as owners can't afford to make us anymore competitive than that budget allows for.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by LoidLucan » Sat May 14, 2022 9:39 am

Where is the "less than 200 donors" figure from? That would equate to an average donation of around £700 each last year. I'm not saying it's wrong but I don't recall seeing that figure for the number of individual donors as opposed to the number of individual pledges which last year was over 700.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by lo36789 » Sat May 14, 2022 10:09 am

I think I've confused figures with community shares which was lower and a thread about changes in contributions from last season. You are right it was 707 in terms of pledges...the hundred or so was those that decreased their contribution y/y.

Currently showing at 233 on BtB we still have a long way until a majority of fans.

That £700 figure though to find a budget of £1m-£1.4m to be full time is actually what you sort of need 700-1000 people paying £700ish per year on top is pretty much the shortfall.
Last edited by lo36789 on Sat May 14, 2022 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat May 14, 2022 10:24 am

lo36789 wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 9:05 am
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:10 am
I'm, not sure that the majority of our fans will accept just drifting along in the Conference North.
Take it that is based simply on entitlement? The fans are the owners at the end of the day - so it is up to that majority to fund what they deem acceptable.

In reality less than 200 fans actually boost the boost - so they might not like it but there is a significant majority who have to accept that they as owners can't afford to make us anymore competitive than that budget allows for.
I see what Pete means. It's not "entitlement" it's just reality. And Lo, not all fans are owners, they may know about the ownership structure and agree to it's principles, they lob a bit extra into the 50/50 draw and suchlike but that doesn't make them owners and it doesn't make their ongoing support a done deal.

Pete writes "I'm, not sure that the majority of our fans will accept just drifting along in the Conference North" - I'm not sure about the word "majority" but there could be quite a number who will just get fed up if we are always the bridesmaid and never the bride.

On a different note, we weren't that far away this season. If Charman and Hatfield had stayed we would have made the playoffs - and that would have been enough to keep the ball rolling.
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by lo36789 » Sat May 14, 2022 10:26 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 10:24 am
I see what Pete means. It's not "entitlement" it's just reality. And Lo, not all fans are owners, they may know about the ownership structure and agree to it's principles, they lob a bit extra into the 50/50 draw and suchlike but that doesn't make them owners and it doesn't make their ongoing support a done deal.
Well no they are supporters in that they support the club that is the whole idea.

If they don't support the club then they are by definition no longer supporters.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat May 14, 2022 11:43 am

lo36789 wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 10:26 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 10:24 am
I see what Pete means. It's not "entitlement" it's just reality. And Lo, not all fans are owners, they may know about the ownership structure and agree to it's principles, they lob a bit extra into the 50/50 draw and suchlike but that doesn't make them owners and it doesn't make their ongoing support a done deal.
Well no they are supporters in that they support the club that is the whole idea.

If they don't support the club then they are by definition no longer supporters.

Sorry, you've completely lost me here.

Pete said that if we drift endlessly along in this division, without something of note happening (i.e. going hybrid) then fans will deplete - and I agree with him. Never mind how the club is set up, never mind if fans are owners, or if fans are called supporters, all that is a separate point.

Fundamentally we are a football club first, we have to excite, entertain, compete and engage. People are fickle, people have other demands on their time and money and some fans won't understand how the club is set up, or even care.

Don't get me wrong, I like the way the club is set up but there other other things in play here.
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by lo36789 » Sat May 14, 2022 12:33 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:43 am
Fundamentally we are a football club first, we have to excite, entertain, compete and engage. People are fickle, people have other demands on their time and money and some fans won't understand how the club is set up, or even care.
"Within our financial means" like any business we must deliver our objectives as best as possible within our means.

Fact is our money comes from supporters who financially support. To go to a more full time model will need more money from those people and it sounds like it is to appease the fickle fans who will walk away anyway as soon as we find our level.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat May 14, 2022 1:52 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 12:33 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:43 am
Fundamentally we are a football club first, we have to excite, entertain, compete and engage. People are fickle, people have other demands on their time and money and some fans won't understand how the club is set up, or even care.
"Within our financial means" like any business we must deliver our objectives as best as possible within our means.

Fact is our money comes from supporters who financially support. To go to a more full time model will need more money from those people and it sounds like it is to appease the fickle fans who will walk away anyway as soon as we find our level.
"Within our financial means" - well yes.

But the fans who generously put in extra aren't the only income the club has. Income comes from all over, including success on the pitch. To state the obvious, how much extra cash would we have made if our final home games had been meaningful? Extra income from a playoff quarter final/semi final?

And as for "fickle fans" - this was my term, I used it first, but it's not meant to be an insulting term. It's just the way things are for any club. If things get dull on the pitch, some people will bog off and do something else with their time. DFC is just a football club regardless of how it is set up. They put on football matches and if the product doesn't entice then so be it, some people will not turn up, but you can't criticise them for this.

I feel confident D.J. will not take risks. Perhaps profit from previous player sales can bolster our budget moving into next season, perhaps because we are well run there is financial scope to move towards this so called hybrid model, but to get back to Pete's point - there needs to be forwards movement otherwise the club will feel stale.
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by EDJOHNS » Sat May 14, 2022 2:48 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 10:26 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 10:24 am
I see what Pete means. It's not "entitlement" it's just reality. And Lo, not all fans are owners, they may know about the ownership structure and agree to it's principles, they lob a bit extra into the 50/50 draw and suchlike but that doesn't make them owners and it doesn't make their ongoing support a done deal.
Well no they are supporters in that they support the club that is the whole idea.

If they don't support the club then they are by definition no longer supporters.
That is not a definite.
I openly admit I could put more in, but I don't because I do not see us ever being in the position to get back to the FL while at BM. Should that change and I could see some way we could eventually get back I could and would increase what I spend on the club.
Put quite simply, why line players' pockets when what we can achieve is limited by other problems?
I have said more than once if we had started a "get our own ground" pot, I would have been in that as best I could. (And I do NOT need anyone telling me that we would not be able to save enough money, at least we could TRY to get the ball rolling).

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Spyman
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Spyman » Sat May 14, 2022 3:25 pm

And if they refuse to accept it then what are they going to do about it?

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by EDJOHNS » Sat May 14, 2022 4:47 pm

Spyman wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 3:25 pm
And if they refuse to accept it then what are they going to do about it?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Look elsewhere. There are enough players lower down the leagues that could easily step up to this league and keep us in it. Or do you want to become a sort of Spendymoor paying a fortune to players to win 1 game a season and knowing there was no way they would get a promotion? In the situation we are in it would be virtually impossible to stay in the Nat league if we got there as we simply could not afford it. This is not in the main a bad level of football. Why not just embrace it short term to get the club into an improved financial point and into a ground from which we can move forward with confidence that we can do better commercially?

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Spyman
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Spyman » Sun May 15, 2022 10:35 am

EDJOHNS wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 3:25 pm
And if they refuse to accept it then what are they going to do about it?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Look elsewhere. There are enough players lower down the leagues that could easily step up to this league and keep us in it. Or do you want to become a sort of Spendymoor paying a fortune to players to win 1 game a season and knowing there was no way they would get a promotion? In the situation we are in it would be virtually impossible to stay in the Nat league if we got there as we simply could not afford it. This is not in the main a bad level of football. Why not just embrace it short term to get the club into an improved financial point and into a ground from which we can move forward with confidence that we can do better commercially?
I was responding to Pete's "threat" that the majority of our fans may not put up with drifting along at our current level - for some reason the quoted post didn't pull through.

Unfortunately for these fans Pete is referring to, they don't really have a choice other than walking away and supporting someone else or putting their money where their mouth is and helping to fund a bigger budget themselves, either through donations or fundraising.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun May 15, 2022 12:53 pm

Spyman wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 10:35 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 3:25 pm
And if they refuse to accept it then what are they going to do about it?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Look elsewhere. There are enough players lower down the leagues that could easily step up to this league and keep us in it. Or do you want to become a sort of Spendymoor paying a fortune to players to win 1 game a season and knowing there was no way they would get a promotion? In the situation we are in it would be virtually impossible to stay in the Nat league if we got there as we simply could not afford it. This is not in the main a bad level of football. Why not just embrace it short term to get the club into an improved financial point and into a ground from which we can move forward with confidence that we can do better commercially?
I was responding to Pete's "threat" that the majority of our fans may not put up with drifting along at our current level - for some reason the quoted post didn't pull through.

Unfortunately for these fans Pete is referring to, they don't really have a choice other than walking away and supporting someone else or putting their money where their mouth is and helping to fund a bigger budget themselves, either through donations or fundraising.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Or the fans Pete is referring to might just walk away and do something else with their time, play golf, go cycling, who cares, but the point I'm trying to make is that just because you've been to a few matches over the years, doesn't mean you've signed any contract to keep on supporting the club no matter what. It's for them to decide what they want to do with their cash and time. DFC need to put out a good product, the better the team, the better the results, the bigger the crowds, that's how it works and people shouldn't be criticised because they drift away.

We on this board are pretty much hardcore supporters, we always turn up, but not everyone thinks this way. Some people just want to see some good local football from time to time, some people maybe just choose to go to the big matches, some people choose to jump on the bandwagon occasionally when it suits them, some people won't care about the backstage set up of the club and fundraising etc - but that's their prerogative.

I sense a little superciliousness on this board sometimes, and I don't mean you Spyman - it's just that no one should be criticised for not attending a football match.

Anyway, looking at Pete's original post on this thread he says "I'm, not sure that the majority of our fans will accept just drifting along in the Conference North" and although I do see his point IMO it won't be the majority, just some.
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by EDJOHNS » Sun May 15, 2022 3:04 pm

Spyman wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 10:35 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 3:25 pm
And if they refuse to accept it then what are they going to do about it?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Look elsewhere. There are enough players lower down the leagues that could easily step up to this league and keep us in it. Or do you want to become a sort of Spendymoor paying a fortune to players to win 1 game a season and knowing there was no way they would get a promotion? In the situation we are in it would be virtually impossible to stay in the Nat league if we got there as we simply could not afford it. This is not in the main a bad level of football. Why not just embrace it short term to get the club into an improved financial point and into a ground from which we can move forward with confidence that we can do better commercially?
I was responding to Pete's "threat" that the majority of our fans may not put up with drifting along at our current level - for some reason the quoted post didn't pull through.

Unfortunately for these fans Pete is referring to, they don't really have a choice other than walking away and supporting someone else or putting their money where their mouth is and helping to fund a bigger budget themselves, either through donations or fundraising.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
My bad. Sorry.

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Spyman
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Re: Hybrid next season

Post by Spyman » Sun May 15, 2022 4:55 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 10:35 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 3:25 pm
And if they refuse to accept it then what are they going to do about it?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Look elsewhere. There are enough players lower down the leagues that could easily step up to this league and keep us in it. Or do you want to become a sort of Spendymoor paying a fortune to players to win 1 game a season and knowing there was no way they would get a promotion? In the situation we are in it would be virtually impossible to stay in the Nat league if we got there as we simply could not afford it. This is not in the main a bad level of football. Why not just embrace it short term to get the club into an improved financial point and into a ground from which we can move forward with confidence that we can do better commercially?
I was responding to Pete's "threat" that the majority of our fans may not put up with drifting along at our current level - for some reason the quoted post didn't pull through.

Unfortunately for these fans Pete is referring to, they don't really have a choice other than walking away and supporting someone else or putting their money where their mouth is and helping to fund a bigger budget themselves, either through donations or fundraising.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Or the fans Pete is referring to might just walk away and do something else with their time, play golf, go cycling, who cares, but the point I'm trying to make is that just because you've been to a few matches over the years, doesn't mean you've signed any contract to keep on supporting the club no matter what. It's for them to decide what they want to do with their cash and time. DFC need to put out a good product, the better the team, the better the results, the bigger the crowds, that's how it works and people shouldn't be criticised because they drift away.

We on this board are pretty much hardcore supporters, we always turn up, but not everyone thinks this way. Some people just want to see some good local football from time to time, some people maybe just choose to go to the big matches, some people choose to jump on the bandwagon occasionally when it suits them, some people won't care about the backstage set up of the club and fundraising etc - but that's their prerogative.

I sense a little superciliousness on this board sometimes, and I don't mean you Spyman - it's just that no one should be criticised for not attending a football match.

Anyway, looking at Pete's original post on this thread he says "I'm, not sure that the majority of our fans will accept just drifting along in the Conference North" and although I do see his point IMO it won't be the majority, just some.
They'd be totally within their rights to do that, I'm not having a dig at anyone who might feel that way.

I suppose what I'm saying is the club can't just magic up more money for a promotion push, so people shouldn't really be making demands or threats as they simply won't do anything. Those funds have to be raised from somewhere and under our current model, that's primarily down to the fans. If we want a better, more ambitious side we have to pay for one or we have to make a concession and give our club away to a wealthy backer with all the risks that that brings.

That's assuming there'd be anyone out there who thought we were worth putting money into - we're barely even an asset worth stripping these days after all!

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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