mark beck

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Old Git
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Re: mark beck

Post by Old Git » Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:15 am

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:37 am
The squad as it stands looks a good competitive one and no reason at all not to feel optimistic.Any further quality signings will be even better.

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Agreed but we still need to strengthen the defensive cover. Another central defender in case of injuries to Wheater and Lawlor and possibly a utility player who could play in defence or midfield would be ideal.

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Re: mark beck

Post by darloed19 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:24 am

Good squad, just need cover in a few positions using the loan market and hopefully getting some young talent in.

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Re: mark beck

Post by darloed19 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:24 am

Good squad, just need cover in a few positions using the loan market and hopefully getting some young talent in.

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loan_star
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Re: mark beck

Post by loan_star » Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:30 am

Old Git wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:15 am
possibly a utility player who could play in defence or midfield would be ideal.
Like Purver and Hedley? Suker can also cover centre half too.
Defenders are easier to pick up on loan whereas if we have a bit of the budget left and a player like Sousa is available I'd rather we try for that type of player, something that isnt so easy to get on loan.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Lallacab » Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:05 am

loan_star wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:30 am
Old Git wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:15 am
possibly a utility player who could play in defence or midfield would be ideal.
Like Purver and Hedley? Suker can also cover centre half too.
Defenders are easier to pick up on loan whereas if we have a bit of the budget left and a player like Sousa is available I'd rather we try for that type of player, something that isnt so easy to get on loan.
I think we need a commanding CB similar to Danny Ellis - I can’t see Wheater playing every week so we’d need a similar type to Ellis alongside Lawlor

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mark beck

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:26 am

We definitely need a third centre back. I’ve said it before but it would be daft to go into a season, potentially playing more than 50 games, with just two specialist centre backs, particularly as Wheater won’t be playing every game.

Yes we have players who can cover, but given we’re looking at a smaller squad of around 18 players, a couple of injuries would leave us really stretched.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: mark beck

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:28 am

Lallacab wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:05 am
loan_star wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:30 am
Old Git wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:15 am
possibly a utility player who could play in defence or midfield would be ideal.
Like Purver and Hedley? Suker can also cover centre half too.
Defenders are easier to pick up on loan whereas if we have a bit of the budget left and a player like Sousa is available I'd rather we try for that type of player, something that isnt so easy to get on loan.
I think we need a commanding CB similar to Danny Ellis - I can’t see Wheater playing every week so we’d need a similar type to Ellis alongside Lawlor
I'd have held on to Ellis for exactly this reason because he was solid enough and probably happy to rotate given his age.. Although the choice to leave might have been his with the Guiseley job coming up.
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Re: mark beck

Post by 50 years » Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:32 am

AndyPark wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:48 pm
50 years wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:26 pm
Some one asked KDS if he was staying as he walked past during the game and he said yes!
Well don’t you look an idiot :lol: :lol:
I was only quoting what KDS said Andy, not my prediction, honest ;)

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Re: mark beck

Post by Lallacab » Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:46 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:28 am
Lallacab wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:05 am
loan_star wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:30 am
Old Git wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:15 am
possibly a utility player who could play in defence or midfield would be ideal.
Like Purver and Hedley? Suker can also cover centre half too.
Defenders are easier to pick up on loan whereas if we have a bit of the budget left and a player like Sousa is available I'd rather we try for that type of player, something that isnt so easy to get on loan.
I think we need a commanding CB similar to Danny Ellis - I can’t see Wheater playing every week so we’d need a similar type to Ellis alongside Lawlor
I'd have held on to Ellis for exactly this reason because he was solid enough and probably happy to rotate given his age.. Although the choice to leave might have been his with the Guiseley job coming up.
Totally agree - the type of CB needed at our level , didn’t lose a header

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Re: mark beck

Post by Old Git » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:17 pm

loan_star wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:30 am
Old Git wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:15 am
possibly a utility player who could play in defence or midfield would be ideal.
Like Purver and Hedley? Suker can also cover centre half too.
Defenders are easier to pick up on loan whereas if we have a bit of the budget left and a player like Sousa is available I'd rather we try for that type of player, something that isnt so easy to get on loan.
Purver is a defensive midfielder and Hedley is best at fullback. When Purver has had to fill in as a defender he has not impressed me at all. Too small for a central defender and positional sense not good enough for a fullback. Hedley was advised to concentrate on being a fullback by AA as that is the position he is best suited to.
Both of them are decent players but are not really good enough to play out of position, other than in an emergency. At the very least we need another commanding central defender.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Quakerlad » Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:05 pm

Fair play to AA with the recent signings.
Was getting concerned that he had missed the boat again but am pleased to be wrong.
2 more and think we have a really good squad. Centre half is a must and a ball wining defensive midfielder.
Well done AA so far this summer.

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mark beck

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:09 pm

Would also add that we have Beck, Hazel, Lambert, Maddison, Rivers and Mondal going for three/four places in the side (working on the basis we’ll play either 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 this season).

That means at least two of our forward players will miss out each game.

Of course none of us know what’s left in the budget, but AA has already said we’re going for a smaller squad this season. So given we’re well-covered in the forward area, if we take AA at his word, do we really need a seventh forward player, knowing that means we’ll have to put another one of them on the bench/out of the matchday squad? Having seven forward players would to me mean the squad is a bit unbalanced.

I agree with Old Git, in that I’d rather see us put any remaining resources to areas we look shorter, particularly defensive and midfield cover. In particular I think we need a different type of central midfielder, someone like Hatfield who can link the play up and drive forward more.

Also in terms of the forwards, Mondal for me has a big opportunity given he can cover both the wide forward and the central forward positions. He showed glimpses last season but was overall disappointing.

If he could hit form, it would negate the need to bring in another forward. I appreciate that’s a big if, but he does have that opportunity and by all accounts played well in our first friendly.

Having said that, I think if hypothetically we did sign someone such as Sousa, we’d likely see a departure with Mondal the most likely to go out of the six forward players we have.
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Re: mark beck

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:33 pm

I’m glad that Beck has signed however he needs to be utilised in the right way. I have a memory of a match at B.M. When all I could hear from the bench was Gray shouting “hit it to Becky, hit it to Becky” - surely there’s more to managing a team and managing a player than just to hit to the big guy.
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Re: mark beck

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:45 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:09 pm
In particular I think we need a different type of central midfielder, someone like Hatfield who can link the play up and drive forward more.
I'd agree with this. Think we have enough ball winners in Rose, Purver and Moke.

It is someone who can drive forward with the ball and be more direct.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Old Git » Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:01 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:45 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:09 pm
In particular I think we need a different type of central midfielder, someone like Hatfield who can link the play up and drive forward more.
I'd agree with this. Think we have enough ball winners in Rose, Purver and Moke.

It is someone who can drive forward with the ball and be more direct.
Perhaps it’s a role that Maddison could fulfill. He is more than good enough to play as an attacking midfielder and can certainly unleash a fierce strike from distance.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:27 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:09 pm

Of course none of us know what’s left in the budget, but AA has already said we’re going for a smaller squad this season. So given we’re well-covered in the forward area, if we take AA at his word, do we really need a seventh forward player, knowing that means we’ll have to put another one of them on the bench/out of the matchday squad? Having seven forward players would to me mean the squad is a bit unbalanced.
If someone like Sousa came up, we'd have to go for it regardless, although it's a long shot. Say we did somehow sign him then I guess we might look to move someone on.

If we don't get him, which is most likely, then I'm sure we all agree we can go into the season with confidence anyway, as far as forward options are concerned.
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Re: mark beck

Post by Spyman » Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:46 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:I’m glad that Beck has signed however he needs to be utilised in the right way. I have a memory of a match at B.M. When all I could hear from the bench was Gray shouting “hit it to Becky, hit it to Becky” - surely there’s more to managing a team and managing a player than just to hit to the big guy.
How dare you. Martin Gray was the Messiah and most tactically gifted manager ever to manage in the non-league.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:14 pm

Spyman wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:46 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:I’m glad that Beck has signed however he needs to be utilised in the right way. I have a memory of a match at B.M. When all I could hear from the bench was Gray shouting “hit it to Becky, hit it to Becky” - surely there’s more to managing a team and managing a player than just to hit to the big guy.
How dare you. Martin Gray was the Messiah and most tactically gifted manager ever to manage in the non-league.

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No he wasn't the messiah, he was a very naughty boy. :D

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Re: mark beck

Post by Old Git » Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:53 pm

What he could do very effectively was motivate and bring the best out of his players. He was not everyone’s cup of tea but he was a brilliant manager for 5 years in succession. His record of 1st, 2nd, 2nd. 1st and 5th should be applauded not ridiculed. In 5 years since he left we have not come close to repeating the 5th place finish we achieved in 2016/17. Hopefully, this season we will be able to emulate those achievements, and if we can our present management team will be rightly given the credit they deserve.

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Re: mark beck

Post by onewayup » Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:24 pm

I won't knock martin for his on field achievements he was exceptional in those first 5 years with us. He very much regrets his antics at the ill fated fans forum. He thought by bringing tight strings in through the back door he would have extra money to spend. He did not approach the board at that time has never to my knowledge properly explained himself or made apologies for his antics and attacks on the fans and board .he cut off his nose to spite his arse.and lost best leave it there.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Spyman » Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm

He regrets his antics but has never apologised or explained the reasons for them?

How do you know he regrets them then?

As you say, all he was interested in was having more money to spend, because all of his success came from spending more money than (most of) the competition.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: mark beck

Post by CrazyDarlo » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:28 pm

Spyman wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm
He regrets his antics but has never apologised or explained the reasons for them?

How do you know he regrets them then?

As you say, all he was interested in was having more money to spend, because all of his success came from spending more money than (most of) the competition.

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There is some sort of acceptance of his mistakes in this article, make of it what you will. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... umble-pie/

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Re: mark beck

Post by Spyman » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:55 pm

CrazyDarlo wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm
He regrets his antics but has never apologised or explained the reasons for them?

How do you know he regrets them then?

As you say, all he was interested in was having more money to spend, because all of his success came from spending more money than (most of) the competition.

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There is some sort of acceptance of his mistakes in this article, make of it what you will. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... umble-pie/
Noticeable that he lays the blame for lack of seats at the board of volunteers, but you have to wonder if there'd been more money available for ground improvement at the expense of other significant outgoings, we might have had those seats. But then we might not have been 5th in the league either.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: mark beck

Post by Old Git » Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:13 pm

Spyman wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:55 pm
CrazyDarlo wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm
He regrets his antics but has never apologised or explained the reasons for them?

How do you know he regrets them then?

As you say, all he was interested in was having more money to spend, because all of his success came from spending more money than (most of) the competition.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
There is some sort of acceptance of his mistakes in this article, make of it what you will. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... umble-pie/
Noticeable that he lays the blame for lack of seats at the board of volunteers, but you have to wonder if there'd been more money available for ground improvement at the expense of other significant outgoings, we might have had those seats. But then we might not have been 5th in the league either.

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Hardly the manager’s job to count the number of seats. If I recall correctly, the board members mistakenly thought that we did not need the seats in place before the playoffs. I think they believed that it was enough to have them in place at a later date.
Gray is always seen as the villain for overspending, but surely the Board are ultimately responsible for the financial wellbeing of the club.

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mark beck

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:29 pm

Old Git wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:55 pm
CrazyDarlo wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm
He regrets his antics but has never apologised or explained the reasons for them?

How do you know he regrets them then?

As you say, all he was interested in was having more money to spend, because all of his success came from spending more money than (most of) the competition.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
There is some sort of acceptance of his mistakes in this article, make of it what you will. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... umble-pie/
Noticeable that he lays the blame for lack of seats at the board of volunteers, but you have to wonder if there'd been more money available for ground improvement at the expense of other significant outgoings, we might have had those seats. But then we might not have been 5th in the league either.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Hardly the manager’s job to count the number of seats. If I recall correctly, the board members mistakenly thought that we did not need the seats in place before the playoffs. I think they believed that it was enough to have them in place at a later date.
Gray is always seen as the villain for overspending, but surely the Board are ultimately responsible for the financial wellbeing of the club.
Without wanting to open another bloody Martin Gray debate five years after he left, this is way too simplistic an analysis of where the club was at the time.

Martin Gray was ridiculously powerful at the club. What he wanted, he was near enough always able to get. Largely this was because we had a lot of turbulence and comings and goings with the board between 2012 and 2017, while Gray was an incredibly successful manager who’d been ever-present since the club’s demotion to the Northern League. Three promotions, two league titles and finishing 5th in our first NLN season.

It shouldn’t be forgotten that Gray was really popular as a result of his success. It was only in the summer of 2017 after his dalliance with Raj Singh that he alienated large chunk of the fanbase.

So had Gray not got what he wanted, he could easily have threatened to leave and led to the fanbase turning on the board. Basically those running the club were in a really weak position, and Gray exploited this.

To prove the point of how untouchable Gray thought he was, it is astonishing for him to have gone to Raj Singh of all people (whose actions nearly killed the club five years earlier) behind the backs of the board, who let’s remember were technically Gray’s bosses.

Could you imagine Alun Armstrong doing that to David Johnston now? No, it wouldn’t happen at all, so that shows the power imbalance at the time.

That’s why it’s far too simplistic to say the board should have stood up to Gray. If they had, he could easily have publicly threatened to walk, causing big problems for the board. Gray did a lot of good for the club, but the level of power he had at the time should never be repeated.
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Re: mark beck

Post by EDJOHNS » Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:04 am

Old Git wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:13 pm
Spyman wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:55 pm
CrazyDarlo wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm
He regrets his antics but has never apologised or explained the reasons for them?

How do you know he regrets them then?

As you say, all he was interested in was having more money to spend, because all of his success came from spending more money than (most of) the competition.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
There is some sort of acceptance of his mistakes in this article, make of it what you will. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... umble-pie/
Noticeable that he lays the blame for lack of seats at the board of volunteers, but you have to wonder if there'd been more money available for ground improvement at the expense of other significant outgoings, we might have had those seats. But then we might not have been 5th in the league either.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Hardly the manager’s job to count the number of seats. If I recall correctly, the board members mistakenly thought that we did not need the seats in place before the playoffs. I think they believed that it was enough to have them in place at a later date.
Gray is always seen as the villain for overspending, but surely the Board are ultimately responsible for the financial wellbeing of the club.
Sorry old git but I am not having the entire board blamed for 1 man's cock-up. This is nothing personal because I don't even know who was doing the job, but the football secretary should have known the requirements. He gets the paperwork updates in the close season every year.

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Re: mark beck

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:18 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:04 am
This is nothing personal because I don't even know who was doing the job, but the football secretary should have known the requirements. He gets the paperwork updates in the close season every year.
Do they? I am a club secretary and know for a fact clubs don't get sent the law changes for the new season, don't get anything issued to them regarding ground grading periodically. We haven't even been told what the match official fees are for the coming season - at least at National League the clubs are the ones who vote / decide that!

I don't even get involved in ground grading that is the chairman and vice chair who take care of that. Any club promoted or moving to a new ground are inspected at the start of a season and are given a report which lists all the explicit improvements that are required to meet grading.

League constitutions are voted on at each AGM but that doesn't touch on explicit ground grading requirements.

If I remember rightly there was a dedicated working group which was focused on the ground and it meeting ground grading. There was an oversight and / or misunderstanding of the promotion requirements may have been a single person tasked with reading it (maybe more should have) or multiple people missed it.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Old Git » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:35 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:29 pm
Old Git wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:55 pm
CrazyDarlo wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm
He regrets his antics but has never apologised or explained the reasons for them?

How do you know he regrets them then?

As you say, all he was interested in was having more money to spend, because all of his success came from spending more money than (most of) the competition.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
There is some sort of acceptance of his mistakes in this article, make of it what you will. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... umble-pie/
Noticeable that he lays the blame for lack of seats at the board of volunteers, but you have to wonder if there'd been more money available for ground improvement at the expense of other significant outgoings, we might have had those seats. But then we might not have been 5th in the league either.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Hardly the manager’s job to count the number of seats. If I recall correctly, the board members mistakenly thought that we did not need the seats in place before the playoffs. I think they believed that it was enough to have them in place at a later date.
Gray is always seen as the villain for overspending, but surely the Board are ultimately responsible for the financial wellbeing of the club.
Without wanting to open another bloody Martin Gray debate five years after he left, this is way too simplistic an analysis of where the club was at the time.

Martin Gray was ridiculously powerful at the club. What he wanted, he was near enough always able to get. Largely this was because we had a lot of turbulence and comings and goings with the board between 2012 and 2017, while Gray was an incredibly successful manager who’d been ever-present since the club’s demotion to the Northern League. Three promotions, two league titles and finishing 5th in our first NLN season.

It shouldn’t be forgotten that Gray was really popular as a result of his success. It was only in the summer of 2017 after his dalliance with Raj Singh that he alienated large chunk of the fanbase.

So had Gray not got what he wanted, he could easily have threatened to leave and led to the fanbase turning on the board. Basically those running the club were in a really weak position, and Gray exploited this.

To prove the point of how untouchable Gray thought he was, it is astonishing for him to have gone to Raj Singh of all people (whose actions nearly killed the club five years earlier) behind the backs of the board, who let’s remember were technically Gray’s bosses.

Could you imagine Alun Armstrong doing that to David Johnston now? No, it wouldn’t happen at all, so that shows the power imbalance at the time.

That’s why it’s far too simplistic to say the board should have stood up to Gray. If they had, he could easily have publicly threatened to walk, causing big problems for the board. Gray did a lot of good for the club, but the level of power he had at the time should never be repeated.
Don’t disagree with your assessment of the situation at the time of Seatgate. Gray had become very popular and powerful within the club and he overstepped the mark and abused his position. However, I still believe his legacy should be seen in the context of his 5 years at the club, not the last 5 months, where things did fall apart. If we finish 5th this season it will rightly be hailed as a successful season and Armstrong will be given a great deal of credit.
Part of Gray’s problem was that he became so successful on the pitch that the club could not keep up with that success off the pitch. In retrospect he should have realised that and been more patient, but that was not in his nature. He was very ambitious, both personally and for the club, and unfortunately those two things were out of kilter by the end of the 2016/17 season.

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Re: mark beck

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:13 am

The thing that gets me is why Gray thinks the rich benefactor route is the way to success, after having suffered an administration personally as Penney's assistant, and then going to Radged who put us into another administration.

The mind boggles, really.
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